Tribute Marner Appreciation Thread

[Gabriel426]

Last year in the playoffs Marner 2 goals, 6 assists for 8 points in the series against Tampa Bay, and it wasn't his fault because the Leafs lost. So, they couldn't use his lack of production against him like in 2020 against Columbus or in 2021 against Montreal.

Not saying MM is not good but most of his points and also AM points came in the first three games of the series.
TB made adjustments while AM and MM couldn’t.

I don’t think you can point finger at one or two individual players for last year playoffs lost but at times, the Leafs really needed that ONE goal to advance and the top guys just couldn’t get it. Afterall, the reason any teams pay premium for top talents is for them to deliver those goals in the playoffs.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Not saying MM is not good but most of his points and also AM points came in the first three games of the series.
TB made adjustments while AM and MM couldn’t.

I don’t think you can point finger at one or two individual players for last year playoffs lost but at times, the Leafs really needed that ONE goal to advance and the top guys just couldn’t get it. Afterall, the reason any teams pay premium for top talents is for them to deliver those goals in the playoffs.

Matthews and Marner were responsible for the game winning goal in Game 5.



Matthews scored their first goal in Game 6.

In Game 7 they both got assists on Morgan Rielly's goal when the score was 1-1.

So, to be fair it wasn't just the first three games of the series when they got their points. Plus who knows what happens if that John Tavares goal wasn't disallowed in Game 7.

 

[Antropovsky]

Very interesting article by the Athletic... They praise Marner as being one of the best players in the world. They say Matthews slow Start makes Marner look better and they say he had a good playoffs vs Tampa. I think the Matthews slow start depends on when Matthews got hurt.

Some interesting stuff on his point streak too:

Again, it’s impressive to be so consistent, but relative to other 20-game streaks, the quality of Marner’s is kind of underwhelming. That should be telling from the point total alone with just 27 over the 20 games, as only seven of Marner’s games during the streak have been multi-point affairs. None of them saw Marner score more than two points and a lot of his points have been secondary assists, too.

During his streak, Marner is averaging just 1.35 points per game. Of the 31 streaks of 20 games or more, it’s the lowest points-per-game average with only three others below 1.5 points per game and 14 others under two points per game. The average is 2.01 with Marner falling well below that (though it’s worth noting the non-Wayne Gretzky average drops to 1.85).



There’s a reason Robertson is in the thick of the Hart Trophy discussion while Marner remains on the fringes … if that.
During Robertson’s 18-game streak he scored 21 goals and 34 points (29 of which were primary), earned a 58 percent expected goals rate and outscored opponents 23-13. It was good for an average Game Score of 2.18. That’s well above Marner’s average Game Score of 1.51 during his streak thanks to fewer goals, points, primary points and lesser five-on-five impacts.

16 Stats: Mitch Marner's streak, Buffalo's top six and Carolina's depth

Streaks build neat little narratives, but the narrative for Marner should’ve already been written.

www.google.com

 

[LeafsNation75]

Very interesting article by the Athletic... They praise Marner as being one of the best players in the world. They say Matthews slow Start makes Marner look better and they say he had a good playoffs vs Tampa. I think the Matthews slow start depends on when Matthews got hurt.

Some interesting stuff on his point streak too:

Again, it’s impressive to be so consistent, but relative to other 20-game streaks, the quality of Marner’s is kind of underwhelming. That should be telling from the point total alone with just 27 over the 20 games, as only seven of Marner’s games during the streak have been multi-point affairs. None of them saw Marner score more than two points and a lot of his points have been secondary assists, too.

During his streak, Marner is averaging just 1.35 points per game. Of the 31 streaks of 20 games or more, it’s the lowest points-per-game average with only three others below 1.5 points per game and 14 others under two points per game. The average is 2.01 with Marner falling well below that (though it’s worth noting the non-Wayne Gretzky average drops to 1.85).



There’s a reason Robertson is in the thick of the Hart Trophy discussion while Marner remains on the fringes … if that.
During Robertson’s 18-game streak he scored 21 goals and 34 points (29 of which were primary), earned a 58 percent expected goals rate and outscored opponents 23-13. It was good for an average Game Score of 2.18. That’s well above Marner’s average Game Score of 1.51 during his streak thanks to fewer goals, points, primary points and lesser five-on-five impacts.

16 Stats: Mitch Marner's streak, Buffalo's top six and Carolina's depth

Streaks build neat little narratives, but the narrative for Marner should’ve already been written.

www.google.com

So, you post part of a story that is says how great of a player Marner is. However, you made sure to copy and paste the part that says his point streak was underwhelming and included the part how Jason Robertson's was better than his.

 

[Gabriel426]

Matthews and Marner were responsible for the game winning goal in Game 5.



In Game 7 they both got assists on Morgan Rielly's goal when the score was 1-1.

So, to be fair it wasn't just the first three games of the series when they got their points. Plus who knows what happens if that John Tavares goal wasn't disallowed in Game 7.

Like I said, just ONE more goal from any of our top guys could mean the diff between advancing and crashing out.
I mentioned on the trade thread, Patty Kane is the player the Leafs should get if I have a choice and price aside. As Kane loves scoring those big goals and he seemed to really have that extra hunger for the dramatics.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Like I said, just ONE more goal from any of our top guys could mean the diff between advancing and crashing out.
I mentioned on the trade thread, Patty Kane is the player the Leafs should get if I have a choice and price aside. As Kane loves scoring those big goals and he seemed to really have that extra hunger for the dramatics.

In a perfect world Patrick Kane would be the best player for the Leafs to get based on his playoff experience. Besides winning the Stanley Cup 3 times, he also scored some major overtime goals. In Game 6 of the Stanley Cup Final he scored the Stanley Cup winning goal. In Game 5 if the 2013 Western Conference Final he scored the game winning goal in double overtime that sent the Blackhawks to the Final that year.

I also remember that when Marner was drafted his player comparison used for him was Patrick Kane. So, it would be fun seeing them on a line together with either Matthews or Tavares at Centre. Now the only problem with that is both of them play Right Wing.

 

[Antropovsky]

So, you post part of a story that is says how great of a player Marner is. However, you made sure to copy and paste the part that says his point streak was underwhelming and included the part how Jason Robertson's was better than his.

Who cares? I included it in my post... What's the problem? The article also had more negative suggestions of Marner that I left out all together.. Why aren't you angry about that? Here they are and more of my opinion on it...since you asked:

Initially, the biggest sticking point was a very terse contract negotiation that saw Marner overpaid as an RFA, but it seems like most people have come around to the idea that being overpaid at the time does not mean being overpaid now. Marner is well worth the big ticket.

Going cold when the games mattered most was an ongoing issue, but Marner finally delivered in the playoffs last year … even if it ended the exact same way it always does for Toronto.

What’s different this year is the Auston Matthews factor. It was Marner playing second fiddle to the team’s undisputed MVP, putting up big numbers next to Matthews and living in his shadow as a result. How good was he, really?

That’s changing this year as the duo was split up, forcing Marner to anchor his own line — and deliver the goods when asked to. He’s showing he can be a superstar in his own right, not because he gets the puck to a generational scorer. The fact that Matthews’ goal scoring has started so slowly is another point in Marner’s favor — one that shows how vital he was to Matthews’ MVP run last season.


This writer basically says Marner has shown this year that he's not just a product of Matthews but he's a superstar in his own right because this year he's producing without Matthews. The writer also says that Matthews goal scoring starting slowly is beneficial to the perception of Marner.

Well since this article came out, it has been revealed that Matthews has a nagging injury. So that doesn't help the writers theory on Matthews goal slowing because of Marner being off his line. In addition the author ignored or didn't realize that Matthews injured or not became much more productive once Marner was taken off his line.

Finally, the writer says Marner is anchoring his own line, but ignores that Tavares is a hell of a player in his own right and actually has better advanced stats.

As noted, the writer props up Marner but also takes away too.. By downplaying the point streak, pointing out the lack of multi point games relative to other past point streaks and also pointed out the amount of secondary points Marner collected.

Oh he just collected another 2 secondary assists today.

Are you happy that you got a more thorough analysis?

The facts are just the stats in the article, the rest is the opinion of there writer (and now me), hence why I initially stuck to just statistics.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Oh he just collected another 2 secondary assists today.

The first secondary assist he had was on the 1-0 goal scored by Bunting and as I said before it was mentioned that it was the 15th first period goal where Marner has been involved with this season.

His other secondary assist was on the 3-3 goal scored by Matthews.

The way I see it since he was given the secondary assist that means whatever he did was the lead up before those goals were eventually scored.

 

[Antropovsky]

The first secondary assist he had was on the 1-0 goal scored by Bunting and as I said before it was mentioned that it was the 15th first period goal where Marner has been involved with this season.

His other secondary assist was on the 3-3 goal scored by Matthews.

The way I see it since he was given the secondary assist that means whatever he did was the lead up before those goals were eventually scored.

Marner is excellent at zone entry.

Just to add... I saw that defenseman Hampus Lindholm on a two on one shot the puck low of Murrays pads and the rebound went directly to Zacha who hit the post on a wide open net. Lindholm making the same play Marner did in game 5 playoffs. I've explained in the past how this play really isn't as difficult for NHL players as some were leading on. Lindholms career high is 34 points.

 

[Yall are crazy]

Lol this is why Mitch is the most polarizing player in Leafs nation.

You got posters like Antropovsky who just says he's total shit and gets carried by his linemates and then posters like this who say he's the smartest player since #99.

The spectrum of Marner is a wild one.

He quite literally has the highest iq in the nhl. That's an arguable case that many ppl of the organization think is true. As for the linemates carrying, it's fact that mitch has played with plugs and superstars and made everyone better. Often that not, he carries the line with his 200 ft game. Even when he's making turnovers he's over there distracting the offense or opening chances. His brain is his worst enemy and greatest asset. When your brain processes that fast and he seems to have adhd as well, his brain starts to overthink and he gets overwhelmed which allows his brain to shut down. He also gets tunnel vision sometimes which has been detrimental sometimes. This is why some ppl think he's shit. His brain makes him a polarizing player.

 

[Notsince67]

Not saying MM is not good but most of his points and also AM points came in the first three games of the series.
TB made adjustments while AM and MM couldn’t.

I don’t think you can point finger at one or two individual players for last year playoffs lost but at times, the Leafs really needed that ONE goal to advance and the top guys just couldn’t get it. Afterall, the reason any teams pay premium for top talents is for them to deliver those goals in the playoffs.

Now comment on the line matched up against them and examine how effective TB's scorers were against them.
There are 2 sides to a game. Oh wait...don't bother. I can't stomach another stupid argument that they are taking all the cap and preventing the leafs from adequately staffing the bottom lines. The circular arguments are getting boring

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Back to being amazing. Puck on a string.

Show up in playoffs

 

[Gabriel426]

Now comment on the line matched up against them and examine how effective TB's scorers were against them.
There are 2 sides to a game. Oh wait...don't bother. I can't stomach another stupid argument that they are taking all the cap and preventing the leafs from adequately staffing the bottom lines. The circular arguments are getting boring

What are you on about?
Honestly. MM, AM are great players, only a few is denying that but the Leafs also need them to be better in order to Win the Cup.
Look at the Avs before last season, Mack, Rantanen, Landy and Makar did more than they did in previous years and that’s why they are the Champ.
I really don’t understand why can’t we ask for players to do more in the playoffs while it is okay to expect them to tops their regulars season points total year after year.
Like if I said I expect AM to score 70Gs and MM to get 116pts, I don’t see anyone challenging me or throw numbers at me by saying AM already won the Rocket or MM is 1st team All Star and that should be good enough….
Reality is that our current team have not won or even come close to winning the Cup. Everyone starting from the top needs to do more in order to achieve this Cup goal. The top guys can outplay their competition but if the team can’t advance it means they need to do more, maybe outplaying is not enough and they need to dominate or even demolish their competition. Just like in the regular season if AM scoring 60 and didn’t win the Rocket but if winning the Rocket is the goal, then it means AM needs to score more.

 

[IPS]

He quite literally has the highest iq in the nhl.

Up for debate IMO but that's your opinion, and it's not a bad one by any means.

 

[Notsince67]

What are you on about?
Honestly. MM, AM are great players, only a few is denying that but the Leafs also need them to be better in order to Win the Cup.
Look at the Avs before last season, Mack, Rantanen, Landy and Makar did more than they did in previous years and that’s why they are the Champ.
I really don’t understand why can’t we ask for players to do more in the playoffs while it is okay to expect them to tops their regulars season points total year after year.
Like if I said I expect AM to score 70Gs and MM to get 116pts, I don’t see anyone challenging me or throw numbers at me by saying AM already won the Rocket or MM is 1st team All Star and that should be good enough….
Reality is that our current team have not won or even come close to winning the Cup. Everyone starting from the top needs to do more in order to achieve this Cup goal. The top guys can outplay their competition but if the team can’t advance it means they need to do more, maybe outplaying is not enough and they need to dominate or even demolish their competition. Just like in the regular season if AM scoring 60 and didn’t win the Rocket but if winning the Rocket is the goal, then it means AM needs to score more.

Pointing to AM and MM last year and saying they didn't play well in the playoffs is just wrong. They literally outplayed every top forward in Tampa. The weakness was the bottom 2 lines that disappeared.
I get people wanting to state motherhood statements about how everyone can play better but in the context of this thread, you are only appeasing elements who are both clueless and have agendas to defend the skin in the game they staked when they (he) decided to start speaking out of their (his) ass. This really isn't a matter of interpretation. It is an obtuse argument about something that is completely wrong.

 

[Gabriel426]

Pointing to AM and MM last year and saying they didn't play well in the playoffs is just wrong. They literally outplayed every top forward in Tampa. The weakness was the bottom 2 lines that disappeared.
I get people wanting to state motherhood statements about how everyone can play better but in the context of this thread, you are only appeasing elements who are both clueless and have agendas to defend the skin in the game they staked when they (he) decided to start speaking out of their (his) ass. This really isn't a matter of interpretation. It is an obtuse argument about something that is completely wrong.

I just think you have it in people who doesn’t constantly state MM or AM are amazing players all the time.

All great players will make mistakes and have bad games but those mistakes and bad games doesn’t define them while at the same time should not be overlook either.
If AM missed an open net in the playoffs, he missed an open net that could have won the game or series for the Leafs. Does that mean he sucked and caused the Leafs the series despite scoring 10Gs and 5 assists in the series? We can’t overlook the fact that he missed an open net that could win the series by stating he got 10 goals and 5 assists, and if only the others can score a goal then the Leafs can advance.

We make a big deal about 6 1st rounds exits, and used all sort of reasons to defend our core guys, but the way we should look at it, the Leafs have not win the Cup when their regular season records support that they could do it starting with the 2nd Bruins series, Habs series and last year TB series.
Let’s say the past four seasons the Leafs had made it to the Conf Finals four straight times but still couldn’t get over the hump, the narratives will still be the same as now, can these guys do it in the playoffs? The difference is being advancing past the first round Vs advancing to the Cup Finals.

Now if you think that this thread should only be praises for MM, that’s on you as I don’t see any boards would have two threads on the same player, one for just praises and one for everything else.

You are a good poster but sometime you are too jumpy when it is comments direct at MM. Still remember a time in the summer when I was having a discussions with another poster about possible fatigue factor for MM and I suggested that maybe taking him off the PK will help. I think it was you and another poster just jumped on that comment with MM being great at PK with stats and comments made by experts….then I replied by asking if fatigue is a factor hurting MM plays, then he needs to play less mins, but where can you cut his mins? If not the PK, then it will be even strength or PP.

 

[LeafsNation75]

 

[ACC1224]

Incredible. When does he turn 26?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Incredible. When does he turn 26?

His birthday is not until May 5th.

 

[Gabriel426]

His birthday is not until May 5th.

If his Bday is May 4 then we know we have the chosen one unless he goes to the dark side-Habs. Lol

This is a Star Wars ref in case you don’t know.

 

[LeafsNation75]

If his Bday is May 4 then we know we have the chosen one unless he goes to the dark side-Habs. Lol

This is a Star Wars ref in case you don’t know.

I'm a huge Star Wars fan and I got that reference right away.

 

[ACC1224]

His birthday is not until May 5th.

He’ll pass Kurri then. Amazing.

 

[notDatsyuk]

One of the lamest criticisms of Marner is he gives the puck away. Look at the top ten here, it’s decent company lol. Marner is also third in takeaways this year.

View attachment 634154

It's a bit concerning that we have three near the top. In addition to Mitch, Mathews is 19th and JT is 27th. (Of 600 players with 20+ games, Willy is tied for 209th.)

For takeaways, Mitch is 3rd, Willy is 6th, Matthews is 11th, and JT is 31st, so that's pretty good.

Somewhat surprising is Kampf. With a fair bit less ice time, he's 18th in takes and tied with Willy in gives.

 

[Gabriel426]

I'm a huge Star Wars fan and I got that reference right away.

So glad you do, with commenting on MM, some here are a bit sensitive and that’s why it is best to explain everything, lol.

I am a Star Wars fans myself. If MM is the chosen one, then Engvall is Jar Jar Bing, someone who most fans hate while some think he is misunderstood.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Look, this is what it comes down to.

A guy like Draisaitl plays like Draisaitl in the playoffs.

Marner is getting by in the playoffs being a little upgrade to David Kampf. Take away the defence and all he has is the xGF to boast about.

Training wheels are off. Everyone is adults now. Trading block Nylander is even sniping goals per game on price and Vasi.

Put up or get out now. That's it. Don't even care if he puts up 300 points in the regular season.