Tribute Marner Appreciation Thread

[Leaf Rocket]

 

[Jojalu]

Surprised Matthews is off the page there.

The page is wrong. Matthews has 108 in 2022 and should be on it

 

[francis246]

AS OF RIGHT NOW.

Tage is out pacing Marner on a shitty team. As of right now. I am not saying hes the better player. We wont know that until both are retired but AS OF RIGHT NOW...TT is better.

No Tage Thompson isn’t better, he simply has more points than Marner. Having a higher point total than someone doesn’t make you better. Marner plays in all situations for the leafs and drives offense like crazy.

Thompson is a hell of a player, but he’s getting an unbelievable opportunity in Buffalo. Especially on the power play. He’s their trigger man. 9 of his 22 goals have come on the power play. On a more balanced team I think Thompson’s numbers come down a bit because he’s probably not getting the puck fed to him like he is in Buffalo.

Even with Thompson having like 5/6 more points than Marner, Marner is better.

 

[leafsfan5]

No Tage Thompson isn’t better, he simply has more points than Marner. Having a higher point total than someone doesn’t make you better. Marner plays in all situations for the leafs and drives offense like crazy.

Thompson is a hell of a player, but he’s getting an unbelievable opportunity in Buffalo. Especially on the power play. He’s their trigger man. 9 of his 22 goals have come on the power play. On a more balanced team I think Thompson’s numbers come down a bit because he’s probably not getting the puck fed to him like he is in Buffalo.

Even with Thompson having like 5/6 more points than Marner, Marner is better.

Look at the system Buffalo plays as well

They're all run and gun, like the old leafs were. It's an ideal environment to put up high numbers

Leafs don't play that way, we put more of an emphasis on the defensive end and taking care of that first

 

[notdoneyet]

AS OF RIGHT NOW.

Tage is out pacing Marner on a shitty team. As of right now. I am not saying hes the better player. We wont know that until both are retired but AS OF RIGHT NOW...TT is better.

Tage is no different than any other young player on a shity team. All offense no overall game defense.
Caufield all offense no defence
Pettersson same
Barzal same

Lets look at their offense when their teams start to get better and the have to try to prevent a goal,

 

[Drytoast]

No Tage Thompson isn’t better, he simply has more points than Marner. Having a higher point total than someone doesn’t make you better. Marner plays in all situations for the leafs and drives offense like crazy.

Thompson is a hell of a player, but he’s getting an unbelievable opportunity in Buffalo. Especially on the power play. He’s their trigger man. 9 of his 22 goals have come on the power play. On a more balanced team I think Thompson’s numbers come down a bit because he’s probably not getting the puck fed to him like he is in Buffalo.

Even with Thompson having like 5/6 more points than Marner, Marner is better.

Currently his numbers are better than marners. It's that simple. I don't give a shit about intangibles. He's out pacing Marner on a much shittier team. I don't watch buffalo enough to see how they are using him and when but right now Marner isn't even the best rw in the league but is paid the most.

He is earning his cost. He is not exceeding it.

Abused fan base such as we are we are not used to our superstars actually earning their wages...that's the real travesty here.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Currently his numbers are better than marners. It's that simple. I don't give a shit about intangibles. He's out pacing Marner on a much shittier team. I don't watch buffalo enough to see how they are using him and when but right now Marner isn't even the best rw in the league but is paid the most.

He is earning his cost. He is not exceeding it.

Abused fan base such as we are we are not used to our superstars actually earning their wages...that's the real travesty here.

Except it's never that simple. Playing a well rounded game and not sucking on defence doesn't show up in the numbers but it adds to your worth as a player, it may be harder to measure but it's not quite intangible either. Marner also has a track record that Tag doesn't. That said, taking Tag over Marner isn't insane or anything, it's just risky. If we had to choose one of them for one playoff series, one season or whatever I take Marner for sure but it's possible that I end up wishing I went the other way. That said, Marner is the pretty obvious choice for the reasons I mentioned so saying Tag is better and saying stuff like "it's that simple" doesn't really make sense.

I do agree with you 100% that Marner is earning his cost, not exceeding it. Marner's best comparables are Pastrnak and Rantanen, they are both paid less and they have the track record that Tag doesn't and you could make a case for either one of them over Marner. IMHO they are all on the same tier and choosing between them, now that would be tough. Marner's great though, in my 50+ years of following this team I've seen only two Maple Leafs play on the level he's at now, Matthews last season and Gilmour many years ago. Those two were actually even better but whatever, Marner is an amazing talent and hopefully he really shines in the upcoming playoffs.

 

[francis246]

Except it's never that simple. Playing a well rounded game and not sucking on defence doesn't show up in the numbers but it adds to your worth as a player, it may be harder to measure but it's not quite intangible either. Marner also has a track record that Tag doesn't. That said, taking Tag over Marner isn't insane or anything, it's just risky. If we had to choose one of them for one playoff series, one season or whatever I take Marner for sure but it's possible that I end up wishing I went the other way. That said, Marner is the pretty obvious choice for the reasons I mentioned so saying Tag is better and saying stuff like "it's that simple" doesn't really make sense.

I do agree with you 100% that Marner is earning his cost, not exceeding it. Marner's best comparables are Pastrnak and Rantanen, they are both paid less and they have the track record that Tag doesn't and you could make a case for either one of them over Marner. IMHO they are all on the same tier and choosing between them, now that would be tough. Marner's great though, in my 50+ years of following this team I've seen only two Maple Leafs play on the level he's at now, Matthews last season and Gilmour many years ago. Those two were actually even better but whatever, Marner is an amazing talent and hopefully he really shines in the upcoming playoffs.

I think the task for Marner is very simple. Show up in the playoffs and he’s pretty much exceeded his contract. Personally I think Marner is the best overall RW in the league. And so do his peers as he has been voted first team RW back to back years. You can make the case for Pasternak, but I think Marner is the most complete. Just about a million or two overpaid due to comparables and non-playoff success. But if he can achieve success here in the post season I don’t see how you can really argue the contract. He’s well above PPG on his career and can play in any situation you need him to. Not many guys around the league can look elite/dangerous 5 on 5, on the power play and on the PK.

 

[studebaker17]

Currently his numbers are better than marners. It's that simple. I don't give a shit about intangibles. He's out pacing Marner on a much shittier team. I don't watch buffalo enough to see how they are using him and when but right now Marner isn't even the best rw in the league but is paid the most.

He is earning his cost. He is not exceeding it.

Abused fan base such as we are we are not used to our superstars actually earning their wages...that's the real travesty here.

Such a strange hill you're on here . Comparing Tage's salary to Marners doesn't make any sense what so ever . Marner came into the leaugue and produced from day 1 so when he signed his 2nd contract he was already a star. Tage in same time span was very medioccur , to the pont he could barley even get into the nhl for a bottom feeding team like Buffalo , so signed for probably even more than he should of been signed for . Even his minor league stats are pretty pedestrian. Then out of know where he scores 38 goals and cont this year scoring wayyyyy beyond his pay grade . If he continues the next contract will be comparable to marners not the one he's on.

 

[francis246]

Currently his numbers are better than marners. It's that simple. I don't give a shit about intangibles. He's out pacing Marner on a much shittier team. I don't watch buffalo enough to see how they are using him and when but right now Marner isn't even the best rw in the league but is paid the most.

He is earning his cost. He is not exceeding it.

Abused fan base such as we are we are not used to our superstars actually earning their wages...that's the real travesty here.

Earning your cost is completely relative to a persons feeling/opinion on the subject. It’s not something you can measure. If you polled the entire fan base and not just a sample from HF boards. I think you’d see pretty even splits. There may be some who feel Marner has done everything a 10 million player should do. Put up 90+ points, be reliable. Some will say he’s done just enough, but hasn’t exceeded it due to playoff failure. Some will say he’s immature and fragile and he isn’t worth it.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think the task for Marner is very simple. Show up in the playoffs and he’s pretty much exceeded his contract. Personally I think Marner is the best overall RW in the league. And so do his peers as he has been voted first team RW back to back years. You can make the case for Pasternak, but I think Marner is the most complete. Just about a million or two overpaid due to comparables and non-playoff success. But if he can achieve success here in the post season I don’t see how you can really argue the contract. He’s well above PPG on his career and can play in any situation you need him to. Not many guys around the league can look elite/dangerous 5 on 5, on the power play and on the PK.

Yeah it's all about helping the team win in the playoffs. When you get right down to it, if the team wins then nobody cares how much anybody's making. But when the team keeps coming close but losing, it's easy to think about whether another million or two to spend could have made the difference and that's when people start to analyze. Hopefully we win the cup this spring and the like I said, nobody will care about Marner's contract.

 

[ToneDog]

I think the task for Marner is very simple. Show up in the playoffs and he’s pretty much exceeded his contract. Personally I think Marner is the best overall RW in the league. And so do his peers as he has been voted first team RW back to back years. You can make the case for Pasternak, but I think Marner is the most complete. Just about a million or two overpaid due to comparables and non-playoff success. But if he can achieve success here in the post season I don’t see how you can really argue the contract. He’s well above PPG on his career and can play in any situation you need him to. Not many guys around the league can look elite/dangerous 5 on 5, on the power play and on the PK.

Only a few will talk about contracts if they have playoff success. Just like nobody is asking for Keefe's head now that they are winning.

At this point it is all about playoff success. I mean if it wasn't, they would have extended Dubas yesterday.

 

[MAB1]

Tage is no different than any other young player on a shity team. All offense no overall game defense.
Caufield all offense no defence
Pettersson same
Barzal same

Lets look at their offense when their teams start to get better and the have to try to prevent a goal,

You could even add McDavid or Draisaitl to this. Picture one of them on the Bruins where they HAVE to play a 200ft game, you still think they're scoring as much as they do in the Oilers "only offence matters" system?

 

[Drytoast]

Except it's never that simple. Playing a well rounded game and not sucking on defence doesn't show up in the numbers but it adds to your worth as a player, it may be harder to measure but it's not quite intangible either. Marner also has a track record that Tag doesn't. That said, taking Tag over Marner isn't insane or anything, it's just risky. If we had to choose one of them for one playoff series, one season or whatever I take Marner for sure but it's possible that I end up wishing I went the other way. That said, Marner is the pretty obvious choice for the reasons I mentioned so saying Tag is better and saying stuff like "it's that simple" doesn't really make sense.

I do agree with you 100% that Marner is earning his cost, not exceeding it. Marner's best comparables are Pastrnak and Rantanen, they are both paid less and they have the track record that Tag doesn't and you could make a case for either one of them over Marner. IMHO they are all on the same tier and choosing between them, now that would be tough. Marner's great though, in my 50+ years of following this team I've seen only two Maple Leafs play on the level he's at now, Matthews last season and Gilmour many years ago. Those two were actually even better but whatever, Marner is an amazing talent and hopefully he really shines in the upcoming playoffs.

Well we can agree or disagree on Tage Thompson. Hell by the end of the season MAYBE Marner becomes the top RW in the league? Even if that becomes the case he is still just earning his paycheck...not exceeding it.

When you ask to be the top paid right wing player in the league, to put your team at such a disadvantage cap wise to sign you, then guess what? I have expectations of you to earn that ask. So while it's amazing that Marner is earning his paycheck, that's exactly what we are paying him to do. That's my take on it.

 

[Mess]

Marner 23 games vs Patrick Kane 26 games

Would love to see Marner and a Leaf holding the record of active players point streak.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Earning your cost is completely relative to a persons feeling/opinion on the subject. It’s not something you can measure. If you polled the entire fan base and not just a sample from HF boards. I think you’d see pretty even splits. There may be some who feel Marner has done everything a 10 million player should do. Put up 90+ points, be reliable. Some will say he’s done just enough, but hasn’t exceeded it due to playoff failure. Some will say he’s immature and fragile and he isn’t worth it.

Like.

Good point, agreed.

Well we can agree or disagree on Tage Thompson. Hell by the end of the season MAYBE Marner becomes the top RW in the league? Even if that becomes the case he is still just earning his paycheck...not exceeding it.

When you ask to be the top paid right wing player in the league, to put your team at such a disadvantage cap wise to sign you, then guess what? I have expectations of you to earn that ask. So while it's amazing that Marner is earning his paycheck, that's exactly what we are paying him to do. That's my take on it.

Thompson is a really bad comparable. But I do agree that Marner isn't worth more than he's being paid or anything, especially with the lack of playoff success. He's a top tier player though and he's being paid accordingly, if anything he's slightly overpaid and I base that on him making more money than his best comparables. He's not clearly better than Pastrnak and Rantanen, yet he's paid more, that's the end of it as far as I'm concerned. But whatever, when we win the cup this spring, nobody's going to care

 

[Notsince67]

 

[Dekes For Days]

Abused fan base such as we are we are not used to our superstars actually earning their wages...that's the real travesty here.

Our superstars have earned their cap hits every single year they've been here.

 

[Drytoast]

Our superstars have earned their cap hits every single year they've been here.

Matthews earned his pay last year. This year? Not so much.

Tavares is out putting the same numbers he did in long island but he wasn't being paid as a top 5 center in long island. he is now. And as such no...he's not hitting his paid value either. And never has.

Nylander is probably the only one of the bunch who has consistently met or exceeded his paid value. And I say that as not being a Nylander fan because he gets shy in the corners when it comes to the playoffs.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Nylander is probably the only one of the bunch who has consistently met or exceeded his paid value.

Not true at all. You don't seem to realize the actual market value of the impact they provide. Matthews, Marner, and Nylander impacts all far surpass their cap hits.
Tavares' impact is right around what he's paid.

 

[IPS]

You could even add McDavid or Draisaitl to this. Picture one of them on the Bruins where they HAVE to play a 200ft game, you still think they're scoring as much as they do in the Oilers "only offence matters" system?

I could actually see McDavid producing more. When the Bruins play defense they're a hell of a lot better than Edmonton at getting the puck back, that means more possession and rush chances for McDavid.

Consequently I actually believe we're going to see Marner produce more and more as this season progresses too.

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

Marner is the best right wing in the NHL. None of the other top RWs play on the PK.

 

[Notsince67]

Matthews earned his pay last year. This year? Not so much.

Tavares is out putting the same numbers he did in long island but he wasn't being paid as a top 5 center in long island. he is now. And as such no...he's not hitting his paid value either. And never has.

Nylander is probably the only one of the bunch who has consistently met or exceeded his paid value. And I say that as not being a Nylander fan because he gets shy in the corners when it comes to the playoffs.

So being shy in the corners does not affect value?
Check.
I'm really trying to learn this valuation method that makes you so confident in making all these bold statements.
Continue on. I will learn as you teach

Marner is the best right wing in the NHL. None of the other top RWs play on the PK.

Wiily just started

 

[1specter]

Look at the system Buffalo plays as well

They're all run and gun, like the old leafs were. It's an ideal environment to put up high numbers

Leafs don't play that way, we put more of an emphasis on the defensive end and taking care of that first

Facts. The reality with Toronto is that even though Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares are elite players who could be putting up league leading numbers (maybe not so much JT anymore), the team plays too balanced / responsible for them to ever reach the absolute top. Not only that, but the Leafs also don't draw enough PPs. The Oilers have been top 5 in PPs drawn for the last 3-4 seasons now, while the Leafs consistently rank in the bottom 10-15 teams, often being in the bottom 5 as well.

McDavid plays 22 minutes a game, and has averaged around 4 minutes a game of PP time for the last 3 seasons, while Matthews plays 20 minutes a game and has averaged around 3 minutes of PP time per game. Marner plays about 21 minutes/game but he also plays significant PK minutes, something McDavid has never really done before this season, and even then he gets about a minute a game of PK time at most. McDavid, Drai etc also get free reign to play however they want and consistently cheat defense to carry the team with offense and outscore their problems, because Edmonton is too garbage to win games otherwise.

I'll take a 200 ft game and more responsible play overall at the expense of some Art Ross trophies. Matthews has already proven himself as this generation's best goal scorer so what does an Art Ross really matter at this point?

 

[ACC1224]

Facts. The reality with Toronto is that even though Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Tavares are elite players who could be putting up league leading numbers (maybe not so much JT anymore), the team plays too balanced / responsible for them to ever reach the absolute top. Not only that, but the Leafs also don't draw enough PPs. The Oilers have been top 5 in PPs drawn for the last 3-4 seasons now, while the Leafs consistently rank in the bottom 10-15 teams, often being in the bottom 5 as well.

McDavid plays 22 minutes a game, and has averaged around 4 minutes a game of PP time for the last 3 seasons, while Matthews plays 20 minutes a game and has averaged around 3 minutes of PP time per game. Marner plays about 21 minutes/game but he also plays significant PK minutes, something McDavid has never really done before this season, and even then he gets about a minute a game of PK time at most. McDavid, Drai etc also get free reign to play however they want and consistently cheat defense to carry the team with offense and outscore their problems, because Edmonton is too garbage to win games otherwise.

I'll take a 200 ft game and more responsible play overall at the expense of some Art Ross trophies. Matthews has already proven himself as this generation's best goal scorer so what does an Art Ross really matter at this point?

Some people don't value the whole game of a player, they look at points and put their blinders on.