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Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread - The AHL is up and prospects are in play

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fahad203 said:
I totally disagree. Boston Bruins are few teams in the league give opportunities right off the bat. They have been a contenter for 10 years now
Lily cannot be encouraged by the idea that some other guys are going to get more opportunity just because they are FA signee. Like Lehtonen.
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I don't think even the organization expected Bogosian to solidify a spot on RD3 and when they inserted Lehtonen the team looked worse. This isn't really a scenario I would want for Lilly either as they wanted to know what they had in Lehtonen before rather promptly chucking him. You got a sense that Keefe didn't really want to experiment when it cost someone on the right side (brodie/holl/bogo).

I think that's all we're seeing here, if Sandin was healthy he likely would be challenging for Dermott's spot right now and Keefe would still not be interested in auditioning anyone on the right side.
 
also with a reduced season, they are going to experiment less with 20 games left. With a lack of trades, I think they will have to look internally and this is where Lilejgren could get his shot, probably Sandin too.
 
SeaOfBlue said:
I watched the highlights of the goals. Only the second one was really bad where he was beat clean on the 5-hole from the circle. That is not a goal you should be giving up.

The others looked like there might as well have not been a defense out there. Absolutely no structure, nobody covering or tying guys up, nobody skating or even trying to win puck battles... They should be absolutely embarrassed. This is reminiscent of a bunch of games I watched last year.



I have no idea how well Woll did otherwise. He may have made a bunch of great saves or just sucked. All I know is that an NHL goalie probably could not have even stole that game based on the defensive effort I saw on 6 of those goals against.



He was over .900 before today. Not his fault his team completely left him out to dry... Again. He's looked good in a lot of these games and our defense is brutal when guys like Liljegren are not playing. McCourt is the only other one who might sniff an NHL game (besides Rosen and Liljegren), but that is mostly because he is only turning 21 this year and has had some good flashes. Hollowell has been awful from day 1 and has not been getting better. Duszak and Rubins look like they can become solid AHLers some day, but at their age, they are likely not becoming NHLers. If anyone wanted those three, I would trade them right now and give real prospects a chance. Kivihalme was not playing today but he has not been great either. He looks like a worse version of Rosen.

That defense needs a major overhaul and Moore needs to improve drastically or he will be without a job sooner rather than later. Kral will be coming in next year. McCourt, Hoefenmayer, and maybe Sapego will get another year to prove themselves (although one of them will likely end up on the Growlers with Kapcheck if all three are back; otherwise we should be turning to different AHL contract guys). Kokkonen, Rindell, Villeneuve, and Niemela could be coming in the year after that. Next year we need to focus on having a group and structure to be able to insulate those guys' transitions and to give Woll, Scott, VV, or whichever goalie we have a chance to actually play. We can't be going into games with 4+ offensive defensemen with very little defensive game to speak of, and having guys like Duszak and Hollowell on the PK.
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Yes the defense is bad but Woll fits right in with them being equally as bad. No excuses. He got the exact result for the effort he put in this game.
 
Atomos2 said:
Yes the defense is bad but Woll fits right in with them being equally as bad. No excuses. He got the exact result for the effort he put in this game.
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He had a bad game. Giving up 6 goals is never a good look on the goalie.

He was not as bad as that defense.

You could probably edit out the defense on 5 of those goals and it would have played out the exact same way. I thought the game on February 26th when they gave up 8 GA was a bad defensive effort. This one looked worse. At least in that game it looked like Stockton had to work for a lot of their goals.

Belleville may as well have been running a practice.
 
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fahad203 said:
I totally disagree. Boston Bruins are few teams in the league give opportunities right off the bat. They have been a contenter for 10 years now

Yet they brought in McAvoy when he was 19, same with Carlo and Pstarnak

They are big on baptism by fire. They buddy you up with a good vet like Chara or McQuaid or Krug
Those guys make sure the young cubs don't get run over or get messed with

Trent Frederic was also given opportunity when he was 19 and same with Vaakannainan. They didn't do well, they got sent down. But opportunity was given.

Their system works. They get out the most of their players because of it.

The idea that someone spends x amount of years in AHL and somehow that will translate into NHL success is overrated. Detroit model doesn't work even for Detroit anymore

Lily cannot be encouraged by the idea that some other guys are going to get more opportunity just because they are FA signee. Like Lehtonen.

Same with Robertsson or Anderson. The idea that Simmonds, Vesey,Boyd and Thornton are going to get more opportunities just because they are FA signings are a bad example to set. People who earned should get it. Simple as that
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I disagree with your disagreement.

Like you say, Boston doesn't hesitate to play its exceptional young prospects like McAvoy or even Carlo, but the caveat here is you cited Chara, McQuaid and Krug.

Toronto traditionally never had a Chara, McQuaid and Krug because they've been trying to build that mature core and have only recently completed that project with Holl emerging and Bogosian and Brodie being added in the last year. If Lilejgren was a McAvoy level talent your assessment would make more sense. But if he's a Matt Grzelcyk, that means he's got a longer incubation time with the likes of Zboril, Vaakakinen, etc.

Trent Frederic is older than Lilejgren by a year and plays forward. He had 17 games under his belt before this year compared to Liljegren's 11, s that's really an example that proves my point about a slower development path.

All in all, Liljegren is still 21 and showing a lot of positives in the minors. I would separate your own anxiety about the speed at which he's being brought along from whatever frustration he might be feeling, because expansion is on the horizon, Bogosian is on a one year deal, we might lose Dermott and Toronto is constantly in need of cheap players on ELC's. The future is bright and is entirely in his control.
 
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SeaOfBlue said:
The others looked like there might as well have not been a defense out there. Absolutely no structure, nobody covering or tying guys up, nobody skating or even trying to win puck battles... They should be absolutely embarrassed. This is reminiscent of a bunch of games I watched last year.
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the others were definitely not all his fault. The reason I said goal 3 is because his rebound control has to be better. He put that puck on a tee for Sokolov. I think he was trying to play it in the corner, but it just didn't go deep enough. hard to see completely from that highlight pack because they don't give you another angle. But it really wasn't much of a point shot. And on another angle on the live feed it looked like he intentionally tried to kick it in the corner which would have been a good play, but it kicked way to high up. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but either way, he has to find a way to contain that rebound IMO. Game was all but over after that went in.

from the games I have seen, he is definitely better than the .880 he is posting. But I am not seeing NHL goalie right now TBH. He doesn't excel in any aspect of the game IMO. Everything is just as average as it gets
 
I agree with the sentiment that Woll is looking like a "maybe", rather than a future starter.

Unrelated to his present day numbers, but was it a known thing that he essentially carried his team in college? I feel like that was a story even though the team looked okay on paper in his final season.
 
Duke16 said:
I agree with the sentiment that Woll is looking like a "maybe", rather than a future starter.

Unrelated to his present day numbers, but was it a known thing that he essentially carried his team in college? I feel like that was a story even though the team looked okay on paper in his final season.
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I don't think he ever carried his team at any point. I think he's always been in a great spot to succeed. His strength is when the team in front of him is great, Woll tends to play well. He's a very steady guy, but by no means is he the type to keep a shitty team afloat.
 
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Duke16 said:
I agree with the sentiment that Woll is looking like a "maybe", rather than a future starter.

Unrelated to his present day numbers, but was it a known thing that he essentially carried his team in college? I feel like that was a story even though the team looked okay on paper in his final season.
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nobody said:
I don't think he ever carried his team at any point. I think he's always been in a great spot to succeed. His strength is when the team in front of him is great, Woll tends to play well. He's a very steady guy, but by no means is he the type to keep a shitty team afloat.
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From what I can recall, his team was pretty bad in his final season and he carried the mail.

With that said, I don't see a future NHL starter in him at this point.
 
nobody said:
I don't think he ever carried his team at any point. I think he's always been in a great spot to succeed. His strength is when the team in front of him is great, Woll tends to play well. He's a very steady guy, but by no means is he the type to keep a shitty team afloat.
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He was one of the best players on his team all 3 years. He never had an amazing team in front of him, and in his final year he was usually a main reason why BC won a game.

You want a goalie who can play at least as well as the defense in front of them, doesn't give up weak goals, and make some big saves when required. He needs a bit more consistency, especially when it comes to weak goals, but he has shown a noticeable improvement with his positioning this year and does make some huge saves. He has the tools but he needs to refine them.

My concern is whether he will gain any kind of confidence behind that defense. I have watched the Marlies fairly consistently for almost 10 years now and I don't know if I have seen a consistently worse defensive effort than what I have seen under Moore. There are far too many games where it looks like none of the guys playing defense should even be pro hockey players, and I am not surprised that literally no goalie has over a .900 since Moore has taken over.
 
TML1967 said:
Is skating the biggest thing holding Gogolev from being drafted?
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Not anymore! He’s now 21 years old. But judging only by media stuff, it probably was when he was still draft eligible.

I’m not one of the draft experts among the posters here, but I was a little surprised no one used a 7th rounder on him in one of the drafts in which he was eligible. But that’s a non expert opinion.
 
TML1967 said:
Is skating the biggest thing holding Gogolev from being drafted?
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He needs to keep his feet moving. He's not slow by any means but he coasts a lot and when he gets the puck he loses a step.

If he can keep that motor running all the time he'd be fine. Especially if he does some of the edge work that Barb does with other guys.
 
What prospects do we have in the NCAA tournament.
Will tsn be showing these games .
 
Twine Tickler said:
I live in BC and they are showing only the NCAA finals on Saturday. SO hopefully St.CLoud makes it through so that I can watch Veeti Miettenen
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Just need to get past Dryden McKay. Minnesota sucked against them but that had more to do with them playing sloppy than Minnesota State really playing well.
 
Max Johnson transfers from Bowling Green State to Wisconsin. Should be a good measuring stick for him to earn an ELC if he does well. BGSU played in a weak conference so playing in the Big 10 will be a nice test.

I had Johnson as an AHL contract target.
 
Kloke did a one on one with Liljegren. There was a lot of praise by Keefe on him.

"He’s shown great, great strides. He came in at 18 years old, and he’s been around, he’s been present for a very long time here now. So you get a lot of questions, and you’re wondering when it’s going to really happen for him,” said Keefe. “But in a lot of ways, based on age, he’s a guy that is somewhat fresh coming out of junior hockey in terms of his timeline. And we look at it from that sense, and you watch him play in the American League, and he looks like a guy that’s a veteran and is extremely confident.

Keefe also said he has added a lot of elements he didn't have before and grown a lot. Also mentioned with the defence being healthy, he hasn't gotten a chance, but knows if something happens, Liljegren is right there.
 
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