Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread - 2023-23 Season Edition

[TheDoldrums]

Has Sasha Pastujov been lined up with Voit?

No, Pastujov has played on the 2nd line so far. They play together on the PP though, obviously.

I was bored at work today and was going through the Sarnia thread on the board. Seems like Voits cold streak lately was mostly driven by Nolan Burke being out of the lineup for some games. Burke recently signed an ELC with Nashville and they obviously have a lot of chemistry together with the stats they've put up so far.

Voits game seems like the type where he absolutely needs at least one sniper on his line to unlock his potential. I hate the idea of "top 6 or bust" because I think the NHL is moving away from that sort of thinking...but at the NHL level Voit might have be playing with great players to impact the game. Like if you put a hypothetical 22 year old Voit who developed well on the Marlies in our bottom 6 today, most of those guys aren't going to do anything with his passes and the rest of Voits game probably won't be worth keeping him in the lineup.

 

[Mitch nylander]

The Wyatt Schingoethe pick is still baffling to me. I get it he's a 7th round pick, and not much should be expected from him, but he can barely get games on an average team.

That being said, Macallister from his team might be a guy to keep an eye on. He's on a tare after an insane AJHL season.

 

[Prominence]

The Wyatt Schingoethe pick is still baffling to me. I get it he's a 7th round pick, and not much should be expected from him, but he can barely get games on an average team.

That being said, Macallister from his team might be a guy to keep an eye on. He's on a tare after an insane AJHL season.

The quick answer is that his production metrics relative to the rest of his team was decent. He also has an august birthday.

I was going through pick224 data 2 weeks back and looked at the prospects in their draft year. One thing that a lot of them had in common was that they scored a lot of primary points per 60 minutes, had positive differentials when on the ice, and the team scored more when said player was on the ice. Schingoethe was decent in the first metric. This is anecdotal, but there may be a tableau somewhere on the internet which showed that schingoethe was decent in transitions. He also scored 39 points in 45 games in his draft year. The draft team probably thought that he would improve on his 39 points.

For the 2021 year, i managed to watch 2-3 games of him and even the one where he scored 2 goals maybe 4 points? I was not impressed. His skating was okay, his shot selection was weird. His transitions were okay. He’s not physical and he just didn’t stand out to me. I thought i was too tough on him and joe miller until i saw ryan tverberg. His shot was average and his pking was standard.

More details:
For primary points (first assist or goal) per 60 minutes, wyatt was approximately #90 out of all draft eligible prospects not in ncaa. #54 among ohl/whl/qmjhl/ushl players.

For gf% (when wyatt is on the ice, what % of even strength goals does the team score), wyatt is approximately #120 out of all draft eligible prospects. #44 among ohl/whl/qmjhl/ushl players.

For gf% relative (gf% minus even strength goals the team scores when player is not on the ice…i think of this metric as his impact on the team). Schingoethe is somewhere around 160th overall, but #64 among ohl/whl/qmjhl/ushl players.

But yeah, that pick is weird overall. He does not pass the eye test.

 

[Roadhog]

The Wyatt Schingoethe pick is still baffling to me. I get it he's a 7th round pick, and not much should be expected from him, but he can barely get games on an average team.

Three full weeks between games, he was probably injured

 

[Peasy]

Maybe just the bare minimum. I haven't listed in about a year because I found that they tend to get a lot of simple things wrong but present it as fact.

They can talk comfortably about the Leafs, but thats about it. Anytime they try to talk about out of market teams it gets dicey. And do not listen to anything they say about prospects, even leaf ones. They know next to nothing about prospects in general. Steve Dangle's job is working directly with the NHL and this dude can't even get a win for his fantasy teams

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Looking like a guy who is gunning to be a top 9 solution.

 

[Twine Tickler]

The Wyatt Schingoethe pick is still baffling to me. I get it he's a 7th round pick, and not much should be expected from him, but he can barely get games on an average team.

That being said, Macallister from his team might be a guy to keep an eye on. He's on a tare after an insane AJHL season.

I mean I personally saw some potential with the pick when it was made. USHL kid since age 16, played with a bit of jam. He was also a late birthday and one of the younger players in the draft. If I am not mistaken he was also a kid that was very regarded before going into the USHL, indicating there was a level of pre-draft pedigree. All of these indicators fell in line with a typical Kyle Dubas pick. It's clearly looking like a miss pick, but that's going to happen in those late rounds from time to time. They can't all be Tverberg/Holmberg level selections at that point in the draft.

I remember reading a bunch about Alexander Pashin that draft, and I kind of thought we were going to select him at that point given the Rodian Amirov selection in the 1st, but I do recall actually liking the Schingoethe selection after it was made.

Not going to lose any sleep over it being a dud though. We haven't had many prospects regress to the level Wyatt has as quickly as it did in ages. The only players I can think of that have basically provided us zero hope from the second they were selected during the Dubas era are: Zachary Bouthillier (7th). Riley Stotts (3rd), Kalle Loponen (7th), Wyatt Schingoethe (7th) and maybe John Fusco (7th).

So all things considered that's really not that bad for 5 drafts and 35 selections to have 5 comeplete swing and misses. Obviously the draft capital used to select Riley Stotts is far more impactful than any of the others, but again, that is going to happen from time to time.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I mean I personally saw some potential with the pick when it was made. USHL kid since age 16, played with a bit of jam. He was also a late birthday and one of the younger players in the draft. If I am not mistaken he was also a kid that was very regarded before going into the USHL, indicating there was a level of pre-draft pedigree. All of these indicators fell in line with a typical Kyle Dubas pick. It's clearly looking like a miss pick, but that's going to happen in those late rounds from time to time. They can't all be Tverberg/Holmberg level selections at that point in the draft.

I remember reading a bunch about Alexander Pashin that draft, and I kind of thought we were going to select him at that point given the Rodian Amirov selection in the 1st, but I do recall actually liking the Schingoethe selection after it was made.

Not going to lose any sleep over it being a dud though. We haven't had many prospects regress to the level Wyatt has as quickly as it did in ages. The only players I can think of that have basically provided us zero hope from the second they were selected during the Dubas era are: Zachary Bouthillier (7th). Riley Stotts (3rd), Kalle Loponen (7th), Wyatt Schingoethe (7th) and maybe John Fusco (7th).

So all things considered that's really not that bad for 5 drafts and 35 selections to have 5 comeplete swing and misses. Obviously the draft capital used to select Riley Stotts is far more impactful than any of the others, but again, that is going to happen from time to time.

None of the Russian picks have been inspiring. The WHL has been a bit of a weak spot for us too outside of Reimer and the high picks (Rielly). I like Lisowsky, especially in the 7th round, and Kral was good in the 5th, but I still don't find Minten to be all that impressive for an early 2nd rounder and Stotts ended up busting after being endorsed by all of our WHL scouts at the time. That is on top of Valiev, Nielsen, Brooks (was decent but not really enough upside), Walker, and Boblyov. The latter two didn't even come close to the AHL. Scott we will excuse due to injuries holding him back. He was a good pick. I just question the WHL scouting. Malarchuk has been there for 30 years and has had good and bad picks. Then we've had a bit of a revolving door with the former Brandon GM as our newest WHL scout. We drafted 2 guys out of the WHL in his first year so TBD? This is arguably the best WHL draft class ever so I hope they don't screw it up.

Schingoethe was really good but fell off when Covid hit and hasn't really recovered yet. I still like him as a prospect and I would take a guy like him again if given the chance.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

None of the Russian picks have been inspiring. The WHL has been a bit of a weak spot for us too outside of Reimer and the high picks (Rielly). I like Lisowsky, especially in the 7th round, and Kral was good in the 5th, but I still don't find Minten to be all that impressive for an early 2nd rounder and Stotts ended up busting after being endorsed by all of our WHL scouts at the time. That is on top of Valiev, Nielsen, Brooks (was decent but not really enough upside), Walker, and Boblyov. The latter two didn't even come close to the AHL. Scott we will excuse due to injuries holding him back. He was a good pick. I just question the WHL scouting. Malarchuk has been there for 30 years and has had good and bad picks. Then we've had a bit of a revolving door with the former Brandon GM as our newest WHL scout. We drafted 2 guys out of the WHL in his first year so TBD? This is arguably the best WHL draft class ever so I hope they don't screw it up.

Schingoethe was really good but fell off when Covid hit and hasn't really recovered yet. I still like him as a prospect and I would take a guy like him again if given the chance.

I mean Grebyonkin is at the very least inspiring hope right now as a 5th round pick in our most recent draft actually getting ice time and producing in the KHL since his loan.

 

[Twine Tickler]

None of the Russian picks have been inspiring. The WHL has been a bit of a weak spot for us too outside of Reimer and the high picks (Rielly). I like Lisowsky, especially in the 7th round, and Kral was good in the 5th, but I still don't find Minten to be all that impressive for an early 2nd rounder and Stotts ended up busting after being endorsed by all of our WHL scouts at the time. That is on top of Valiev, Nielsen, Brooks (was decent but not really enough upside), Walker, and Boblyov. The latter two didn't even come close to the AHL. Scott we will excuse due to injuries holding him back. He was a good pick. I just question the WHL scouting. Malarchuk has been there for 30 years and has had good and bad picks. Then we've had a bit of a revolving door with the former Brandon GM as our newest WHL scout. We drafted 2 guys out of the WHL in his first year so TBD? This is arguably the best WHL draft class ever so I hope they don't screw it up.

Schingoethe was really good but fell off when Covid hit and hasn't really recovered yet. I still like him as a prospect and I would take a guy like him again if given the chance.

I think the Russian picks have historically not produced for sure. But I think a large part of that is our lack of control on their development. I think all Russian selections are incredibly risky just due to the way they promote the KHL and feeder leagues over there. The usage of NHL drafted players is abnormal to say the least. Of course the KHL is a very competitive league and is widely viewed as the 2nd best in the world. So getting regular minutes as a teen is rare, and ultimately not a reality for most. But I just will never understand how some players are being used in that league, or should I say not used.

It seems very convenient to me that some of these NHL drafted players are put in 4th line minutes, often times getting 1 or 2 shifts in a game and then their stocks fall to a point where NHL teams no longer consider them a viable option. Then miraculously they start to get regular roles around age 23-24. Not to say Vladislav Kara was ever going to be anything, but that's a selection that comes to mind when I think of this prototypical Russian "development". You have to wonder what may have been for him had he been under our control. More than likely the same outcome, but he was realistically never going to amount to anything in the Russian developmental system.

I am not a huge fan of selecting Russians out of the MHL/VHL/KHL for that reason alone. We need more control of our assets. It is a shame, because we all know how much talent Russian players have. They just live in a bubble where all they know is Russia and they are genuinely are lead to believe there are no other options for their development. When that couldn't be further from the truth. It seems to be something that is unique to Russia and no other Leagues in Europe.

 

[Stephen]

None of the Russian picks have been inspiring. The WHL has been a bit of a weak spot for us too outside of Reimer and the high picks (Rielly). I like Lisowsky, especially in the 7th round, and Kral was good in the 5th, but I still don't find Minten to be all that impressive for an early 2nd rounder and Stotts ended up busting after being endorsed by all of our WHL scouts at the time. That is on top of Valiev, Nielsen, Brooks (was decent but not really enough upside), Walker, and Boblyov. The latter two didn't even come close to the AHL. Scott we will excuse due to injuries holding him back. He was a good pick. I just question the WHL scouting. Malarchuk has been there for 30 years and has had good and bad picks. Then we've had a bit of a revolving door with the former Brandon GM as our newest WHL scout. We drafted 2 guys out of the WHL in his first year so TBD? This is arguably the best WHL draft class ever so I hope they don't screw it up.

Schingoethe was really good but fell off when Covid hit and hasn't really recovered yet. I still like him as a prospect and I would take a guy like him again if given the chance.

Who was our man in Russia? Jim Palafito? Seems like most of his picks and free agents out of Russia were kinda off the mark over the past few years.

 

[AlienWorkShop]

Who was our man in Russia? Jim Palafito? Seems like most of his picks and free agents out of Russia were kinda off the mark over the past few years.

Yeah, Palafito seems to be the key link as he joined in 2015 as director of player evaluation. I remember reading he was credited with recruiting pros like Mikheyev. That one a relative hit, while the likes of Zaitsev, Ozhiganov, Barabanov, and Soshnikov less so... but it also lines up with our burst of Russian picks (see below)

Barabanov is looking ok with the Sharks now and Zaitsev was more about getting a silly contract than being outright 'bad'... Soshnikov and Ozhiganov were fringe plugs. I'm overall not too bothered with the Russian free agent attempts.

Grigori Shafigulin is currently our only Russian-born scout and, according to EP, has been around since 2018-19. Before that, we had Nikolai Ladygin from 04-05 to 17-18 (presumably now retired).

Our Russian drafting since 2005:
2005:
2006: Kulemin 2nd round (woo!!! Loved Kulemin)
2007:
2008: Stefanovich 4th (sorta counts)
2009:
2010:
2011:
2012:
2013:
2014: Valiyev 3rd
2015: Korostelev 7th (moved to Canada young)
2016: Korshkov 2nd, Bobylyov 5th, Chebykin 7th
2017: Kara 4th
2018: SDA 3rd (moved to Canada young), Kizimov 7th
2019:
2020: Akhtyamov 4th, Ovchinnikov 5th
2021: Peksa 6th
2022: Grebyonkin 5th

(On a random note, just saw that Matt Moulson is now one of our pro scouts, and Chris Bourque is an amateur scout...)

 

[ULF_55]

So who is worthy of call-up if Rielly is gone?

 

[TMLAM34]

So who is worthy of call-up if Rielly is gone?

I’d like to see Kral get in on a few more games to see what we have in him. But it’ll probably be Mete. Especially with Mete and Benn having previous chemistry.

Giordano - Holl
Sandin - Liljegren
Mete - Benn

Pretty f***ing awful blueline lmao

 

[ULF_55]

I’d like to see Kral get in on a few more games to see what we have in him. But it’ll probably be Mete. Especially with Mete and Benn having previous chemistry.

Giordano - Holl
Sandin - Liljegren
Mete - Benn

Pretty f***ing awful blueline lmao

They said Brodie not ready this week, so does that mean he's more or less day-to-day, or is he week-to-week?

Huge difference if they're holding him out to get to 100%, or if the issue is perhaps longer term, but not long enough for LTIR?

 

[ULF_55]

Alex Steeves is waiver exempt, perhaps time to bring him up for a look-see?

Yeah, yeah, Robertson ... but if the coach won't play him ...

 

[Fogelhund]

Alex Steeves is waiver exempt, perhaps time to bring him up for a look-see?

Yeah, yeah, Robertson ... but if the coach won't play him ...

With our D issues, Robertson might have an even harder time getting in.

 

[ACC1224]

With our D issues, Robertson might have an even harder time getting in.

Looks like he is already in and Malgin is out.

 

[Fogelhund]

Looks like he is already in and Malgin is out.

So it seems... it's really Kerfoot or Jarnkrok who should sit a game.... strange. Hopefully Robertson has himself a game.

 

[Fogelhund]

""

 

[ULF_55]

So it seems... it's really Kerfoot or Jarnkrok who should sit a game.... strange. Hopefully Robertson has himself a game.

I can see Malgin out, but maybe Kerfoot as well. Skating well, accomplishing little.

 

[TMLAM34]

I’d also like to see Anderson called up.

Aston Reese - Kampf - Anderson

I think that could be a really good fourth line.

 

[FreeBird]

I can see Malgin out, but maybe Kerfoot as well. Skating well, accomplishing little.

ITs time for the rebuild to Begin

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I’d also like to see Anderson called up.

Aston Reese - Kampf - Anderson

I think that could be a really good fourth line.

Anderson - Kampf - Malgin imo. We need someone who can generate scoring chances on the line. I think Kampf gels really well with Malgin.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Anderson - Kampf - Malgin imo. We need someone who can generate scoring chances on the line. I think Kampf gels really well with Malgin.

They just need someone who can clean up the rebounds Malgin and Kampf create really.