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Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread - 2023-23 Season Edition

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When all else is equal or close, you take the bigger player but that doesn't happen often. Knies is a perfect ecample.
I don't know how someone can say Hunter diversified our pool. He literally went one year for skill, and 2 drafts with size. His size picks were bigger in numbers than his skill players, and pretty much all all his size players have fizzled out. When you foces on just size like Hunter did and ignore hockey skills, you aren't going to get a lot of good prospects. The reality is Dubas was and is still suffering from the lack of support pieces from the Hunter drafts. This year and next is when the Dubas drafts are coming into fruitition, with guys like SDA, Knies and Robertson becoming close to NHL contributors. You have Kral on the backend as well. Steeves as a free agent.


Dubas's draft vision sets the team up for sustainable success. It's why we have a few players in the minors getting close.
 
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stickty111 said:
When all else is equal or close, you take the bigger player but that doesn't happen often. Knies is a perfect ecample.
I don't know how someone can say Hunter diversified our pool. He literally went one year for skill, and 2 drafts with size. His size picks were bigger in numbers than his skill players, and pretty much all all his size players have fizzled out. When you foces on just size like Hunter did and ignore hockey skills, you aren't going to get a lot of good prospects. The reality is Dubas was and is still suffering from the lack of support pieces from the Hunter drafts. This year and next is when the Dubas drafts are coming into fruitition, with guys like SDA, Knies and Robertson becoming close to NHL contributors. You have Kral on the backend as well. Steeves as a free agent.


Dubas's draft vision sets the team up for sustainable success. It's why we have a few players in the minors getting close.
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Yes, I think Dubas will be on the clock by end of this year.

How is Villeneuve doing? He looked pretty smooth in preseason.
 
meefer said:
Nick Robertson:

*Tied for 8th in scoring for the team with Jarnkrok and Kerfoot with 5 points, 2G/3A
*Is one point behind Bunting, 2 behind Kamph.
*Though a flawed stat, he is a +1, I'd guess due to Ozone starts.
*Jarnkrok, Kerfoot, Bunting and Kamph have dressed for 16 games. Robertson, 10.
*TOI: 16:02(K), 15:33(B), 14:24(Kamph), 13:05(J)...11:19 Robertson (ranked 19th on the team)
*7th in team scoring at equal strength, 6th if you remove Rielly.
*7th in team P/60, 5th if you remove Benn and Clifford.
*3rd in ESG/60, behind Benn and Liljegren.
*4th in ESA/60, 2nd behind Marner if you remove Clifford and Simmonds.
*3rd in ESP/60, 1st if you remove Clifford and Benn.
*8th in SH%, 6th if you remove Liljegren (50%) and Benn (33.3%)
*15th in BS, with 8 of the others ahead of him being defensemen.

You have high standards ;)
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He's so good he's not dressing...I'd rather he got 20 minutes a game with the Marlies but that's just me.

 
Stephen said:
There’s just a conceptual hangover from drafting Tyler Biggs, Jamie Devane, Kenny Ryan and Freddy Gauthier. The picks and development were incorrect in the end but it doesn’t invalidate the player type since if any of them had panned out you’d have a bottom of the lineup piece. In the end it doesn’t matter if they just. Bracco and Timashov aren’t NHLers either. But like I said, make sure that pipeline has the mix so there’s a chance different player types can break through and have different jobs waiting for them.
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No, it's nothing to do with the Leafs really. If you look across the league, there is a pretty consistent trend of skilled players who produce overcoming size limitations, and big "safe" players succumbing to their hockey playing limitations. There are exceptions, but this is a general rule.

As for Bracco, he's a pretty unique case. His career probably never would have worked out no matter what, he had a terrible work ethic and a slew of off ice issues. As for Timashov, 45 NHL games from a 5th round pick is better than how those usually work out. Only 34% play an NHL game.

There's just an issue with the philosophy of, "If this player works out, you have a bottom of the lineup piece". If their best case scenario is a bottom tier player, that's not worth the risk of them not working out and ending up with nothing. Why not go for higher in the lineup players who can still end up 3rd/4th liners if their development goes wrong?

Stephen said:
There’s just a conceptual hangover from drafting Tyler Biggs, Jamie Devane, Kenny Ryan and Freddy Gauthier. The picks and development were incorrect in the end but it doesn’t invalidate the player type since if any of them had panned out you’d have a bottom of the lineup piece. In the end it doesn’t matter if they just. Bracco and Timashov aren’t NHLers either. But like I said, make sure that pipeline has the mix so there’s a chance different player types can break through and have different jobs waiting for them.
Click to expand...
No, it's nothing to do with the Leafs really. If you look across the league, there is a pretty consistent trend of skilled players who produce overcoming size limitations, and big "safe" players succumbing to their hockey playing limitations. There are exceptions, but this is a general rule.

As for Bracco, he's a pretty unique case. His career probably never would have worked out no matter what, he had a terrible work ethic and a slew of off ice issues. As for Timashov, 45 NHL games from a 5th round pick is better than how those usually work out. Only 34% play an NHL game.

There's just an issue with the philosophy of, "If this player works out, you have a bottom of the lineup piece". If their best case scenario is a bottom tier player, that's not worth the risk of them not working out and ending up with nothing. Why not go for higher in the lineup players who can still end up 3rd/4th liners if their development goes wrong?
 
Larcos_Unal said:
He's so good he's not dressing...I'd rather he got 20 minutes a game with the Marlies but that's just me.

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Yeah, if he's not playing in the NHL let him play in the AHL.

He should be playing games, and if there's little trust for him in the NHL ...

1668447633190.png
 
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CantLoseWithMatthews said:
No, it's nothing to do with the Leafs really. If you look across the league, there is a pretty consistent trend of skilled players who produce overcoming size limitations, and big "safe" players succumbing to their hockey playing limitations. There are exceptions, but this is a general rule.

As for Bracco, he's a pretty unique case. His career probably never would have worked out no matter what, he had a terrible work ethic and a slew of off ice issues. As for Timashov, 45 NHL games from a 5th round pick is better than how those usually work out. Only 34% play an NHL game.

There's just an issue with the philosophy of, "If this player works out, you have a bottom of the lineup piece". If their best case scenario is a bottom tier player, that's not worth the risk of them not working out and ending up with nothing. Why not go for higher in the lineup players who can still end up 3rd/4th liners if their development goes wrong?
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No, if you go through each draft there’s always pretty good examples of mid to late round “fridge” picks who just come up and fill depth roles.

They don’t have a low percentage high ceiling, but come with an employable floor.

Again, my whole argument isn’t an either or on the size vs skill debate. It’s you should take both in a better mix and BPA shouldn’t default to dangle skills and big numbers in the USHL.
 
LeafChief said:
People giving up on Robertson should remember the significant portion of this fan base that gave up on Liljegren.
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Hopefully, few are giving up on him.

He needs to play, that has everything to do with the coach.

He looks okay out there, but he isn't really stealing anyone's job.

Probably doesn't help the Leafs only have a few players who look determined.
 
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Stephen said:
No, if you go through each draft there’s always pretty good examples of mid to late round “fridge” picks who just come up and fill depth roles.

They don’t have a low percentage high ceiling, but come with an employable floor.

Again, my whole argument isn’t an either or on the size vs skill debate. It’s you should take both in a better mix and BPA shouldn’t default to dangle skills and big numbers in the USHL.
Click to expand...
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2022 NHL Draft Preview and Analysis: Can We Prove That Small Players Are Undervalued?

This article is part of a series that aims to re-think how we look at the NHL Draft. We will be looking at various statistics which have predicted which NHL
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And

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2022 NHL Draft Preview and Research: Is NHLe the Best Way to Evaluate a Prospect's Value?

This article is part of a series that aims to re-think how we look at the NHL Draft. We will be looking at various statistics which have predicted which NHL
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Are some examples of what I mean. Drafting players for size and toughness has a pattern of backfiring on teams and drafting for skill and production has a pattern of rewarding teams. Why not just get the best prospects you possibly can and fill holes when needed? Dubas has been able to add players like McCann, Steeves, and Douglas outside of the draft
 
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LeafChief said:
Read the prospects threads from two years ago. The search function on this website is a wonderful tool.
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A significant portion of the fan base all discussed this in the Prospects thread? Must have been a crazy busy thread.
 
I really hope we see Ty Voit get moved this year (in the OHL). Would be really interesting to see what he can do with some equivalent talent.
 
genk said:
I also distinctly remember a very large portion of the fan base having given up on Liljegrin. Especially after Sandin’s brief stint in the NHL.
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Thanks.
Could be my definition of “large portion of fan base is out of whack”.
How many people are we talking roughly ?
 
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LeafChief said:
I really hope we see Ty Voit get moved this year (in the OHL). Would be really interesting to see what he can do with some equivalent talent.
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I think it would be good for his development but bad (neutral at best) for his production- and for the same reason. On a better team with multiple Voit level players the play is not going flow through him near as completely, going to be fewer touches.

I think he comes through the other side a better player though if he adapts properly, learns to contribute in a more "NHL" type role and playstyle.
 
LeafChief said:
People giving up on Robertson should remember the significant portion of this fan base that gave up on Liljegren.
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Prospect fatigue and shiny new toy syndrome are a real thing. It happened with Liljegren after Sandin got drafted and it's happening to Robertson with Knies being drafted behind him. I wonder when Knies signs next year and isn't instantly a top 6 player that people will be willing to trade him because Fraser Minten is in the pipeline.

Peoples expectations are far too high too quickly, and when they're not immediately met they fans get discouraged and move onto the next thing to be excited about, and Robertson has had very bad luck with injuries. I think he's been good enough in the sample he's had to prove he's an NHL player and should be in the lineup every game. Unfortunately Dubas is too good at drafting/signing players so Holmberg also is getting a look.
 
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4thline said:
I think it would be good for his development but bad (neutral at best) for his production- and for the same reason. On a better team with multiple Voit level players the play is not going flow through him near as completely, going to be fewer touches.

I think he comes through the other side a better player though if he adapts properly, learns to contribute in a more "NHL" type role and playstyle.
Click to expand...
Fair point.

Pulling for him to make the US WJC team. He's more than earned it. CHL roster spot may be playing against him though.
 
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