Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread - 2021/22 PART III

[stickty111]

Abramov keeps coming on with two primary assists.
Goals for Steeves n Kral.
Good night for the risers.
Marlies being badly outshot again but tied at 3.

Abramov assisted on the OT winner too. 3 points.

 

[Leafs1991]

For those that are currently down on Robertson/Amirov, just a reminder that Jordan Kyrou was a 2nd round pick from Matthews draft. Looks pretty good now but it took him a while to get here.

Patience!

Look how long it took for Kaprizov to come over, it takes time, every pick is different.

 

[Stringer Bell]

What do we have in Steeves? Might be someone we should be considering slotting in as a regular long before Robertson, Knies, or Amirov.

 

[aingefan]

Abramov assisted on the OT winner too. 3 points.

Up over .5ppg too, with Steeves hitting a ppg.
And almost quietly, Kral's at .5ppg now too.

 

[aingefan]

Also, even though it’s slow, Joe Woll's glacial improvement continues.

 

[Stigma]

Abramov has really been on a heater lately. Nice to see after a disappointing start.

Good news for us! We have some great LWs in the system, but we need more promising (pure) Cs.

 

[francis246]

Why? Schneider doesn't have the tools to be a big time point producer from the point. Amirov is going to be just fine and a fixture in the top six.

I don’t get the Schneider hate. People have PTSD from Luke Schenn. The point of it is, Schneider is a damn good defenseman and has been for most of his junior career. I personally feel we should have taken him and I was pretty vocal about it on draft day. There is a reason NYR traded up to get him. How much better would our right side look now with a guy like him who can skate and move the puck.

 

[francis246]

Ya I mean he had the frame and body of work to suggest he would eventually be a pretty safe pick to be in the NHL at some point in his life, but I really don't think many teams would have thought in his D+1.5 he would be in the NHL.

To me he is a Brandon Carlo like player. High NHL projectability, lower upside. Hugely beneficial to have a player like him in the lineup, but also not a player that was can't miss at 15 OA. Lets be real, he's never going to get PP1 in NYR with Fox being ahead of him on the depth chart, and realistically won't even get PP2 for a while with Trouba ahead of him. He essentially represents what Liljegren represents in our current lineup. Just a very solid 2 way defensemen that leans more defensive that offensive. Higher upside than what their current roles suggest, but not that of a can't miss. I'd say Timmy and him have similar upsides. Could he have been our future #1 RHD? maybe for sure. But I also think Timmy has that same potential TBH.

Again, I am trying not to take anything away from Schneider. I was in favor of that selection at 15OA at the time. But looking back at it, I wouldn't trade Amirov for Schneider straight up right now, nor do I expect that to change in the future. Hell, I am not even sure you trade Neimela for Schneider at this point. I love Schneider's game, I think he's going to be a very solid player for a long time. But I don't think he will be a player we look back and regret not selecting. Of course I could be dead ass wrong, I just am more intrigued by the idea of Rodion's impact in the NHL vs Braden's. Even though Braden has arrived earlier and did not look out of place (from what I've read on here)

he’s a better defender than Liljegren but I don’t know about the offensive upside. I think Liljegren has more of that and I’m hoping the leafs give him more of a green light to show it. But I do think Schneider is just a better defenseman than Liljegren.

 

[Legion34]

he’s a better defender than Liljegren but I don’t know about the offensive upside. I think Liljegren has more of that and I’m hoping the leafs give him more of a green light to show it. But I do think Schneider is just a better defenseman than Liljegren.

based on what?

 

[francis246]

based on what?

Why do you guys always have to take everything as a slight. Liljegren is good but his defensive play is suspect, he gets burned so many times, he’s good at recovering and he’s lucky that he has the foot speed to make up for his mistakes. But he does not defend well, especially against the rush. Even in yesterday’s game he was fantastic in the o zone, but his defensive zone coverage along side Muzzin was brutal. It was the same against Phoenix too.

& based on watching both of them play. I’ve followed Schneider throughout junior because I really wanted the leafs to take him. Schneider is a defensive dman, always has been. Can skate well, good gap control, rarely out of position, makes smart simple plays, good stick and is physical. Uses his body to separate man and puck. Hopefully Liljegren can get there but he’s got a lot of work to do on the defensive side. He’s still young and learning.

 

[Legion34]

Why do you guys always have to take everything as a slight. Liljegren is good but his defensive play is suspect, he gets burned so many times, he’s good at recovering and he’s lucky that he has the foot speed to make up for his mistakes. But he does not defend well, especially against the rush.

& based on watching both of them play. I’ve followed Schneider throughout junior because I really wanted the leafs to take him. Schneider is a defensive dman, always has been. Can skate well, good gap control, rarely out of position, makes smart simple plays, good stick and is physical. Uses his body to separate man and puck. Hopefully Liljegren can get there but he’s got a lot of work to do on the defensive side. He’s still young and learning.

He “turns the wrong way” but I’m not sure thats not his plan? I don’t know why he would do that. But he does it and it works. Like Brodie’s weird slide. He has always done it. He got flat out tackled last night and got beat.

I have followed Lilly since his draft and the junior u18 the summer we picked him. He was an absolutely dominant number 1 d on the Marlies as an 18 year old since he started. He was better than. Sandin IMO in the AHL.

People Judged him wrongly due to a 10’game sample when the team was a disaster and the whole team was hurt.

There is no way to really compare them at age. But being an excellent d at 18-19 in the A Is very tough

 

[francis246]

He “turns the wrong way” but I’m not sure thats not his plan? I don’t know why he would do that. But he does it and it works. Like Brodie’s weird slide. He has always done it. He got flat out tackled last night and got beat.

I have followed Lilly since his draft and the junior u18 the summer we picked him. He was an absolutely dominant number 1 d on the Marlies as an 18 year old since he started. He was better than. Sandin IMO in the AHL.

People Judged him wrongly due to a 10’game sample when the team was a disaster and the whole team was hurt.

There is no way to really compare them at age. But being an excellent d at 18-19 in the A Is very tough

listen I’m not saying he’s a bad defender by any means. But I personally don’t want to him against other teams top lines anymore. I just don’t think he’s ready for that role yet. The leafs had done a fantastic job helping him grow his defensive side but he has a lot of work to do to improve it and be consistent. Let’s put it this way, even with Liljegren fans are still asking Kyle to acquire a top 4 RHD. It’s not because we think Liljegren is shit or a bust it’s because he’s getting exposed a bit too much there, same with Holl. There is no question Liljegren has the tools to become a top 4 dman, but it’s not there for him right now.

now back to Schneider I do stand by my opinion that he is a better defender than Liljegren. That’s what his whole game has been since entering the WHL and now into the NHL. He’s a steady defensive dman who is consistent and reliable. We’ve been crying for that and we could have had him is all I’m saying. I know people love Amirov and I hope for the leafs sake that he pans out but it’s not looking good with his injury situation and lack of ice time. Plus the picks around him have just been so good so it’s hard not to look back with revisionist history. Hopefully they get him over to North America next year.

 

[stickty111]

Schnieder is not a better defenceman then Liljegren. Liljegren's transition defence is one of his best qualities and the fact it's being criticized makes me question if people are just being biased. If Schnieder didn't score his 1st goal, this wouldn't even be brought up. Schnieder has a lot to learn to even be Liljegren level defensively. The funny thing is Liljegren has been much better defensively then offensively at the NHL level, yet after 2 rare off games defensively he has a lot to learn there? Alright then. Lilly's defensive game has been terrific so far and he is a better player then Schnieder right now, and it's not even close.
I guess grass is greener on the other side though.

 

[Legion34]

listen I’m not saying he’s a bad defender by any means. But I personally don’t want to him against other teams top lines anymore. I just don’t think he’s ready for that role yet. The leafs had done a fantastic job helping him grow his defensive side but he has a lot of work to do to improve it and be consistent. Let’s put it this way, even with Liljegren fans are still asking Kyle to acquire a top 4 RHD. It’s not because we think Liljegren is shit or a bust it’s because he’s getting exposed a bit too much there, same with Holl. There is no question Liljegren has the tools to become a top 4 dman, but it’s not there for him right now.

now back to Schneider I do stand by my opinion that he is a better defender than Liljegren. That’s what his whole game has been since entering the WHL and now into the NHL. He’s a steady defensive dman who is consistent and reliable. We’ve been crying for that and we could have had him is all I’m saying. I know people love Amirov and I hope for the leafs sake that he pans out but it’s not looking good with his injury situation and lack of ice time. Plus the picks around him have just been so good so it’s hard not to look back with revisionist history. Hopefully they get him over to North America next year.

I agree on Lilly. He is a rookie. He is dominating top 6 min and holding his own. In top 4. I don’t think we want to go into the playoffs with him as a top 4 barring huge improvement. We need a top 4 d and pray that muzz can remember who he is.

but

I don’t see how you can make the comparison. Schneider as a d plus 2 has played 2 NHL games and averaged 13 min of ice time. In front of a vezina front runner on a top team.

Lilly played in the AHL younger. Schneider likes to hit. So did dion and Schenn

Would you want Schneider in the top 4 in the playoffs?

 

[francis246]

I agree on Lilly. He is a rookie. He is dominating top 6 min and holding his own. In top 4. I don’t think we want to go into the playoffs with him as a top 4 barring huge improvement. We need a top 4 d and pray that muzz can remember who he is.

but

I don’t see how you can make the comparison. Schneider as a d plus 2 has played 2 NHL games and averaged 13 min of ice time. In front of a vezina front runner on a top team.

Lilly played in the AHL younger. Schneider likes to hit. So did dion and Schenn

Would you want Schneider in the top 4 in the playoffs?

Well Lilly played in the AHL younger because of the SHL-NHL agreement. Schneider didn't because of the CHL-NHL agreement. So that point is moot. Even if the Rangers wanted to put him there, they couldn't because it's not allowed. Otherwise there would be no point in even having a CHL because all the best players would turn pro right away. the CHL would die as a development league. So that's a whole other story.

I think it has more to do with the type of defenseman who has more success in the playoffs. Schneider is more mobile than both Dion and Schenn. I would like a defenseman like Schneider in the top 4 in the playoffs because he's physical, has a long reach, can move guys off the puck with his body and that's what you need. We are talking about acquiring Scott Mayfield and Schneider is very similar to Mayfield, obviously not as good because he's younger. Again I'm not saying by any means Liljegren is a bad player or can't ever become a great player for us. But I think it's just funny that we've been saying we want a certain type of defenseman and we could have drafted and developed our own. It's too early to tell who's better but if we are talking purely just playing defense I'm probably taking Schneider

 

[SprDaVE]

What do we have in Steeves? Might be someone we should be considering slotting in as a regular long before Robertson, Knies, or Amirov.

I would say so. He reminds a lot of Connor Brown. Very good all around game and fairly skilled. He can play up and down your lineup without issues.

 

[Legion34]

Well Lilly played in the AHL younger because of the SHL-NHL agreement. Schneider didn't because of the CHL-NHL agreement. So that point is moot. Even if the Rangers wanted to put him there, they couldn't because it's not allowed. Otherwise there would be no point in even having a CHL because all the best players would turn pro right away. the CHL would die as a development league. So that's a whole other story.

I think it has more to do with the type of defenseman who has more success in the playoffs. Schneider is more mobile than both Dion and Schenn. I would like a defenseman like Schneider in the top 4 in the playoffs because he's physical, has a long reach, can move guys off the puck with his body and that's what you need. We are talking about acquiring Scott Mayfield and Schneider is very similar to Mayfield, obviously not as good because he's younger. Again I'm not saying by any means Liljegren is a bad player or can't ever become a great player for us. But I think it's just funny that we've been saying we want a certain type of defenseman and we could have drafted and developed our own. It's too early to tell who's better but if we are talking purely just playing defense I'm probably taking Schneider

sure. You can prefer his style. I might even too. But to declare he is better makes no sense.

Lilly was higher potential pre draft
Dominated higher leagues at younger ages.
Currently playing more minutes.

I can prefer play making wingers as a matter of preference. But I can’t declare Marner better than Matthews.

 

[francis246]

sure. You can prefer his style. I might even too. But to declare he is better makes no sense.

Lilly was higher potential pre draft
Dominated higher leagues at younger ages.
Currently playing more minutes.

I can prefer play making wingers as a matter of preference. But I can’t declare Marner better than Matthews.

I mean i think it's a bit of a false narrative he dominated higher leagues but he's been pretty good at most of his stops for sure. Liljegren didn't dominate the SHL or the Hockey Allsvenskan by any means. He was really good in the U20 and U16 Swedish junior leagues. and had a terrific 19/20 year old season in the AHL. He's been steady, reliable but inconsistent at the NHL level. Let's pump the breaks a bit.

that's the beauty of opinion and being it's yours to make and you shouldn't change it based on others. If you believed Marner is better than Matthews I'd have no issue with that. Both are really good, there may be reason why you prefer Marner and believe he is the better player. I think a lot of people come on here and try to tear other posters down, that's why we have forums to discuss things. If I think Schneider is a better defender so be it, nothing you can say will change my mind and nothing I say will change your mind about Liljegren. But I appreciate the respectful dialogue.

 

[LeafChief]

People always seem to fall in love with the flavour of the week. This week it's Schneider.

Half of you would have given up on Jordan Kyrou years ago if he was drafted by the Leafs. Patience.

 

[francis246]

People always seem to fall in love with the flavour of the week. This week it's Schneider.

Half of you would have given up on Jordan Kyrou years ago if he was drafted by the Leafs. Patience.

nah a lot of people wanted Schneider at the 2020 draft. I do think as fans we get recency bias. But I think the amirov pick was controversial from day one. A lot of people wanted Schneider

 

[LeafChief]

nah a lot of people wanted Schneider at the 2020 draft. I do think as fans we get recency bias. But I think the amirov pick was controversial from day one. A lot of people wanted Schneider

A lot of people wanted Tyler Biggs. A lot of people wanted the Flyers to draft Nolan Patrick. The Rangers draft party erupted with excitement when the Devils selected Jack Hughes because the Rangers were going to get Kappo Kakko.

A lot of people wanted the Leafs to select Laine over Matthews because of 1 World Championship tournament.

A lot of people wanting a pick doesn't mean it's the correct pick.

 

[francis246]

A lot of people wanted Tyler Biggs. A lot of people wanted the Flyers to draft Nolan Patrick. The Rangers draft party erupted with excitement when the Devils selected Jack Hughes because the Rangers were going to get Kappo Kakko.

A lot of people wanted the Leafs to select Laine over Matthews because of 1 World Championship tournament.

A lot of people wanting a pick doesn't mean it's the correct pick.

right, and just because we made a consensus pick it doesn't mean it was the right pick, so we will wait and see. I trust Dubas and the scouting staff so Amirov is probably a player who will get pro games in for the Maple Leafs. At the end of the day people are allowed to voice their displeasure. I'm still pissed we didn't take Schneider and it has nothing to do with the goal yesterday or him even making his NHL debut this past week, I felt the same watching the world juniors last year and seeing him play. Just a guy on defense we could use. Y'all don't have to rag on everyone who doesn't agree with every move the organization makes. It's okay.

 

[LeafChief]

right, and just because we made a consensus pick it doesn't mean it was the right pick, so we will wait and see. I trust Dubas and the scouting staff so Amirov is probably a player who will get pro games in for the Maple Leafs. At the end of the day people are allowed to voice their displeasure. I'm still pissed we didn't take Schneider and it has nothing to do with the goal yesterday or him even making his NHL debut this past week, I felt the same watching the world juniors last year and seeing him play. Just a guy on defense we could use. Y'all don't have to rag on everyone who doesn't agree with every move the organization makes. It's okay.

No doubt.

The thing is, this is the Leafs prospects thread. A lot of us use this thread to update each other on how LEAFS prospects are doing.

If you're going to come in here crying about management's choice on a draft pick and then get sensitive when people call you out, maybe online forums aren't the place for you.

I'm sure you can find one of the other 100 threads to complain about management in. We don't discuss management here. We discuss Leafs prospects.

 

[francis246]

No doubt.

The thing is, this is the Leafs prospects thread. A lot of us use this thread to update each other on how LEAFS prospects are doing.

If you're going to come in here crying about management's choice on a draft pick and then get sensitive when people call you out, maybe online forums aren't the place for you.

I'm sure you can find one of the other 100 threads to complain about management in. We don't discuss management here. We discuss Leafs prospects.

I'm not getting sensitive at all. I'm speaking up about the small group of you who continually attack people who don't share your point of view.

and nah, I'll talk about leafs prospects and leafs prospects that could have been in here if I want and even compare them probably too. If you can't handle that then maybe online forums aren't the place for you lol

 

[LeafChief]