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Prospect Info: Marlies/Prospects Thread - 2021/22 PART II

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Nice goal by Amirov. Getting some decent minutes. Hoping to see this consistently for the rest of the KHL season.

How many more weeks until Robertson is back?
 
Twine Tickler said:
32 teams have some form of Amateur scouting in place in Russia. Comprised almost exclusively with Russian born and raised citizens just like yourself (assuming this based on your location). Only difference is these scouts are directly involved with Hockey in Russia and some of them have even played in the very leagues they are scouting.

If the argument is that Russia being the largest country in the world makes it impossible for NHL teams to spot the talent thoroughly, then how exactly does the common fan such as yourself know that teams wasted picks on "home-run" style players over "talented position players"?

wherein, How is your ability to spot the talent from your living room any better than an amateur scout that would have more access to film, resources to fly into the cities to watch games in person, and the time to actually invest on making an educated opinion?

I agree, Russia would be easily the hardest country on the planet to scout for a variety of reasons. Geographical complications being probably one of the biggest reasons. However the cream always rises to the top. It's not like these guys are playing in caves in the year 1915. They all play in reputable leagues that are all being filmed. They can sift through every game if they really wanted. Players like Dmitry are not uncommon. They dominate the lower levels, and then they are shackled into insignificant/irrelevant roles until their low to mid 20's when they are less on NHL teams radar. By the time they are even able to showcase what they can do at a higher level they may have already given up the dream to play in the NHL likely. You cannot tell me that would not be viewed as a success story for any KHL club. Who wouldn't want to keep their young stars?

For those at the upper end of prospect pyramids, ie. the Podkolzin's of the world, they are not deterred from those lack of roles. They know their skill. That's why I have zero worries on Rodion. That's not to say I don't think there is a better place for Rodion to develop, but I am less worried about his lack of playing time. He will be a Leaf eventually.

Dmitry on the other hand has shown the ability to dominate the lower levels. Why wouldn't Sibir want to explore developing him at a different level? You can suggest he has been given an opportunity in the KHL, which I guess would be accurate if you think 5 mins of average TOI this year in the K is an opportunity.

I'm assuming Dmitry is viewed very similarly from Sibir's perspective as Nick Robertson is viewed by the Leafs. Both were/are Prolific Junior players that at the current moment just don't look ready for the highest level. That said, only 1 game Nick Robertson has played at the NHL level has been under 5mins TOI. And that was the game he was hurt after his 2nd shift.

When the Leafs did not intend to use Nick in a way that would improve his game, they sent him to the next best league for his development. Because they care about his development. Sending Dmitry back down to a league where he dominates would be like the Leafs sending Nick back to Peterborough for a 20 yr old season.

anyways, I can definitely respect your opinions on how this unfolds differently from your perspective. I genuinely can appreciate that you would have more knowledge on this than I would. But from an outsider perspective, this sort of shit just doesn't happen in any other European Leagues. There always seems to be a natural progression for the young players. When it doesn't the player almost always seeks other opportunities elsewhere.
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Go research how Minnesota discovered Kaprizov. :laugh: Even then he wasn't drafted until the 5th round when any knowledgeble Russian could tell you he was elite.
This is undoubtedly because he was situated in Novokuznetsk. NHL teams can't draft Russia worth crap.


We're on the same page though. We all want what's best for these players.
My issue is people thinking there's always some ulterior-motive when their favorite prospect doesn't get ice time. Like I told 'yall ad nausum....Amirov was being brought back slowly from injury, not punished because of 'reasons'.
Russia is no different than Canada. Some teams are good at developing players, some suck at it.

Also keep in mind that practice is the foundation of Russian hockey. Russian kids practice far more than their NA counterparts.
Yes Ovchinnikov needs more ice time, but he's still, daily, on-the-ice exponentially more than he would be in the AHL practicing and receiving instruction. It's not like he's being neglected.

But I agree players need to play. But I also think NA development puts too much emphasis on games, not enough on skill repetition and development. There needs to be an optimal middle ground on all sides.

Anyway good discussion.
 
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Knies looks to be on the 2nd line with Cooley for todays game, but the American lines look kinda funky so I am interested to see how they are used in action.
 
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Hirvonen with the OT winner and also registered an assist on the opening goal of the game.

Honestly though, I think that is a very misleading stat line. He was not very good IMO. Same goes for Niemela. Hirvonen was on the ice for every goal against, and had an absolutely brutal turnover in the first period that directly lead to the first USA goal. Niemela was pretty lost 5v5, was not hitting his breakout passes with efficiency, and had an absolutely brain dead play to start the 3rd period which put the states up a goal right away. He did have a great shot towards net that lead to the first goal for Finland, and he does look really good on the PP, but he didn't do anything 5v5 that made me take notice.

A completely boneheaded match penalty by Red Savage in the last 3 mins of the game cost the US the game. It kind of masked some of the poor play by Hirvonen and Niemela TBH. I think they both registered points on the OT winner.

On the otherhand I thought Knies was very noticeable. He got completely robbed in the 2nd period on a goal mouth scramble. Although I am still confused how Mazur looked him off 2 seconds prior to that. He would have had a tap in. Ya, you’d like to see him finish the chance he got robbed on, but he’s fading away from the puck and it was a strong play to just get a play on the puck TBH. He was creating the entire game IMO. Really strong showing if you ask me. I can see him having a big tournament.

All n’ All it was just a sloppy game all around. Both teams looked disconnected for large portions of the game. Was nice to see Hirvonen absolutely snipe the OT winner. But again, I think he and Niemela were not very good today IMO
 
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TheBeastCoast said:
Knies looks to be on the 2nd line with Cooley for todays game, but the American lines look kinda funky so I am interested to see how they are used in action.
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Yeah I have a feeling that none of these lines are going to be kept. After all, Pastujov and Sanderson are almost certainly playing and yet they were listed as extras today.
 
Morgs said:
Masters did the defense weird. Pronmans looked like how it actually played out:

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Weird even then. Hughes on the 3rd pairing. Lucius and Coronato in the bottom 6 when while Mazur and Samoskevich are in the top 6. Pastujov not in the lineup at all.

Almost seems like they wanted to try out some guys higher up in the lineup to see how they hack it.
 
SeaOfBlue said:
Weird even then. Hughes on the 3rd pairing. Lucius and Coronato in the bottom 6 when while Mazur and Samoskevich are in the top 6. Pastujov not in the lineup at all.

Almost seems like they wanted to try out some guys higher up in the lineup to see how they hack it.
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Lol your issues are exactly what I said pre-game in the WJC thread
 
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SeaOfBlue said:
Weird even then. Hughes on the 3rd pairing. Lucius and Coronato in the bottom 6 when while Mazur and Samoskevich are in the top 6. Pastujov not in the lineup at all.

Almost seems like they wanted to try out some guys higher up in the lineup to see how they hack it.
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I think it is more likely just a coach making questionable decisions. Teams really do not have that much time to tinker with stuff like that. States have Sweden in like 2 games(Who also have a coach making questionable lineup decisions).
 
Morgs said:
Lol your issues are exactly what I said pre-game in the WJC thread
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Maybe it is teams not wanting to tip their hands a little bit too? Canada seems to be the only one who is playing the lineup they are going to use, because it is pretty much the same lineup they've used in every practice leading up to today.

I guess nobody is really surprised about what Canada is going to bring, and Canada doesn't really need to hide their hand. They are the easy favourites right now and they are pretty much telling everyone else to bring it.
 
TheBeastCoast said:
I think it is more likely just a coach making questionable decisions. Teams really do not have that much time to tinker with stuff like that. States have Sweden in like 2 games(Who also have a coach making questionable lineup decisions).
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At least it doesn't affect any Leafs prospects. May screw my WJC pool a little bit, but even then I am making out decently well. Mostly just looks like Lucius could be a bad pick for me right now :laugh:

I am also benefitting a little bit too. Puutio is on PP1 when I expected him to be PP2. Bourque moved up. Everyone else except Lucius and maybe Dickinson is at least playing where they should.
 
Twine Tickler said:
Hirvonen with the OT winner and also registered an assist on the opening goal of the game.

Honestly though, I think that is a very misleading stat line. He was not very good IMO. Same goes for Niemela. Hirvonen was on the ice for every goal against, and had an absolutely brutal turnover in the first period that directly lead to the first USA goal. Niemela was pretty lost 5v5, was not hitting his breakout passes with efficiency, and had an absolutely brain dead play to start the 3rd period which put the states up a goal right away. He did have a great shot towards net that lead to the first goal for Finland, and he does look really good on the PP, but he didn't do anything 5v5 that made me take notice.

A completely boneheaded match penalty by Red Savage in the last 3 mins of the game cost the US the game. It kind of masked some of the poor play by Hirvonen and Niemela TBH. I think they both registered points on the OT winner.

On the otherhand I thought Knies was very noticeable. He got completely robbed in the 2nd period on a goal mouth scramble. Although I am still confused how Mazur looked him off 2 seconds prior to that. He would have had a tap in. Ya, you’d like to see him finish the chance he got robbed on, but he’s fading away from the puck and it was a strong play to just get a play on the puck TBH. He was creating the entire game IMO. Really strong showing if you ask me. I can see him having a big tournament.

All n’ All it was just a sloppy game all around. Both teams looked disconnected for large portions of the game. Was nice to see Hirvonen absolutely snipe the OT winner. But again, I think he and Niemela were not very good today IMO
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That pp will own this tournament
 
hullsy47 said:
That pp will own this tournament
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Ya, I expect they will rack up their points in the first 3 games of the tournament before they face Canada. It's so true what they were saying on the broadcast with respect to Finnish Hockey. The brand they play is so undeniably Finnish. You could almost remove all numbers and nameplates from each of the jersey's and you wouldn't know who is who. They just battle every tournament. From top to bottom. Even in tournaments where they lack the high end talent they always have a shot at gold with the style they play.

I'm happy the Leafs have 2 prospects on the Finnish roster because it just gives me more of a reason to watch them play.
 
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