Prospect Info: Marlies & Prospect Discussion

[Leaf Fans]

We ac

We actually traded Konency for Bracco and Dermott and I said at the time it was a stupid move.

The Leafs never had Konency. They could have drafted him, but traded the pick. Who knows who they would have drafted at 24 - maybe even Konency.

 

[Fogelhund]

The Leafs never had Konency. They could have drafted him, but traded the pick. Who knows who they would have drafted at 24 - maybe even Konency.

I doubt that they would have drafted Konecny. They had Nylander and Marner at RW, so chances are high they were looking at D. They moved back, and got their guy... the real argument should have been.. should we have drafted Brandon Carlo instead?

 

[WTFMAN99]

I doubt that they would have drafted Konecny. They had Nylander and Marner at RW, so chances are high they were looking at D. They moved back, and got their guy... the real argument should have been.. should we have drafted Brandon Carlo instead?

I got poo poo'd on here when I was talking about Carlo and Hague (Liljegren draft) because the offensive upside wasn't high enough.

Everyone on the board was just thinking offense all the time.

I don't get to watch prospect stuff as much anymore and because we're not really in rebuild phase, no real point but we had a lot of misses under both Hunter and Dubas.

 

[notbias]

We ac

We actually traded Konency for Bracco and Dermott and I said at the time it was a stupid move.

We traded that pick, not the payer... we also could have just selected better in that position and ended up with any combination of:

Aho/Hintz/Carlo/Cernak/Dunn and Cirelli/Kolesar/Hill/Roy/Joseph/Garland/Kaprizov

There were a ton of good players still available... trading down could have been the best decision, but it doesn't look great in hindsight.

 

[The Iceman]

I wouldn't mind moving off Kampf if possible though. I like the player but not the contract

Don't mean to derail but Kampf to me is a fourth liner ONLY because he doesn't have the skill to play top 3 lines, not because he is some defensive specialist.

In fact I think he is very meh on the defensive side and I hate him in the faceoff dot.
Placed on the 4th line because he has no vision and stone hands.

I doubt that they would have drafted Konecny. They had Nylander and Marner at RW, so chances are high they were looking at D. They moved back, and got their guy... the real argument should have been.. should we have drafted Brandon Carlo instead?

Well advertised Dubas slogan
BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE

 

[AuraSphere]

The Leafs never had Konency. They could have drafted him, but traded the pick. Who knows who they would have drafted at 24 - maybe even Konency.

I doubt that they would have drafted Konecny. They had Nylander and Marner at RW, so chances are high they were looking at D. They moved back, and got their guy... the real argument should have been.. should we have drafted Brandon Carlo instead?

To be fair - Konecny at the time was seen as a big faller and steal at 24 - he was the BPA available according to most scouting reports. Were there better players available (i.e. Aho) - yes. But reason most say Konecny is because at that time - that was likely going to be our pick or management would have been under fire given the rankings

 

[Leafs1991]

Problem is the Leafs have already committed 4 years to David Kampf to fill that role as a defense only 4C. I think now would be a good time to sell high on Minten

Gotta love how its been a year and 4 months and you already want to trade a 19 year old.

 

[ULF_55]

Well advertised Dubas slogan
BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE

Yeah, I don't think he started that.

I'm sure I heard that while Dubas was still in diapers.

 

[darrylsittler27]

My point is everyone knew at the time drafting Konency was the move except management . Toronto is usually run by people who knows less than fans. Maybe this is why they always lose.

Gotta love how its been a year and 4 months and you already want to trade a 19 year old.

You never get market value for prospects. Right now he will fetch a 2nd rounder. So you go and try and draft another Minten next year?

 

[ULF_55]

Toronto used to have a draft best line available policy.

Okay, just kidding one was a defenseman.

To you youngsters out there, bet you didn't know you were in purgatory/the Twlight Zone did you?

 

[Leafs1991]

My point is everyone knew at the time drafting Konency was the move except management . Toronto is usually run by people who knows less than fans. Maybe this is why they always lose.


You never get market value for prospects. Right now he will fetch a 2nd rounder. So you go and try and draft another Minten next year?

No one knew. You have hindsight to say that, thats it.

Zero reason to trade a 19 year old showing promise.

 

[nuck]

To be fair - Konecny at the time was seen as a big faller and steal at 24 - he was the BPA available according to most scouting reports. Were there better players available (i.e. Aho) - yes. But reason most say Konecny is because at that time - that was likely going to be our pick or management would have been under fire given the rankings

The only reason clubs trade down is because they see a plateau of similar talents. If there was anything remarkable about TK I strongly doubt they would have moved the pick. Fallers are fallers for a reason. If they had taken Aho and Cirelli the move would have looked liked genius. Lily was a faller in his year and while he may pan out fine he is not a better player than Hague, never mind Norris or Thomas or Robertson. Its fun to imagine what if they had taken.... in any given year but the pick they didn't use isn't the player that was selected.

 

[The Iceman]

Minten has never before represented Team Canada.
Talk about massive development.

Made the Leafs out of camp
Named captain of his jr team
Traded to a contending jr team
Made the Team Canada roster and named Captain.

Quite a year for him.

 

[TMLAM34]

Minten has Boone Jenner written all over him IMO. You don’t trade that.

 

[weems]

Only two games into the tournament and already so many non Leaf fans saying Cowan sucks and Minten was a terrible selection.

Not that surprising considering so many proclaimed Cowan was a total bust of a pick on draft night, so they would love nothing more than to be right in their hot take and even Minten wasn't a very well recieved pick early on.

Even if both players have a terrible tournament, the fact that both even made this team shows huge forward progression and both would easily go higher in a re-draft.

Wouldn't be one bit shocked if one of these two has a huge goal in this tournament that quickly changes the narrative.

 

[ULF_55]

Only two games into the tournament and already so many non Leaf fans saying Cowan sucks and Minten was a terrible selection.

Not that surprised considering so many proclaimed Cowan as total bust of a pick on draft night so they would love nothing more than to be right in their hot take and even Minten wasn't a very well recieved pick early on.

Even if both players have a terrible tournament, the fact that both even made this team shows huge forward progression and both would easily go higher in a re-draft.

Wouldn't be one bit shocked if one of these two has a huge goal in this tournament that quickly changes the narrative.

I'd be disappointed if that wasn't the case.

Indicates Leafs are still despised and in people's heads.

 

[arso40]

The only reason clubs trade down is because they see a plateau of similar talents. If there was anything remarkable about TK I strongly doubt they would have moved the pick. Fallers are fallers for a reason. If they had taken Aho and Cirelli the move would have looked liked genius. Lily was a faller in his year and while he may pan out fine he is not a better player than Hague, never mind Norris or Thomas or Robertson. Its fun to imagine what if they had taken.... in any given year but the pick they didn't use isn't the player that was selected.

I don’t know about that cause Hague doesn’t have number one potential and lily still does and I believe he will be he reminds me of nylander they add layers to their game and improve every year he’s already a top 4

 

[barilko05]

Toronto used to have a draft best line available policy.

View attachment 791517

Okay, just kidding one was a defenseman.

To you youngsters out there, bet you didn't know you were in purgatory/the Twlight Zone did you?

To be fair, other than Mats, 1989s 1st round was pretty weak. Gord Stellick says it wasn't pre-ordained they drafted 3 guys from the same team, it's just how the cards fell. Rumour has it that George Armstrong and what few scouts the Leafs had spent so much time in Belleville scouting the Bulls because of Ballard. He cheaped out on scouting so much that they only went to games that were an easy drive from TO. So why didn't they draft 3 guys from Peterborough or Oshawa instead? Who knows?

 

[ULF_55]

To be fair, other than Mats, 1989 was a pretty bad draft year. Gord Stellick says it wasn't pre-ordained they drafted 3 guys from the same team, it's just how the cards fell. Rumour has it that George Armstrong and what few scouts the Leafs had spent so much time in Belleville scouting the Bulls because of Ballard. He cheaped out on scouting so much that they only went to games that were an easy drive from TO. So why didn't they draft 3 guys from Peterborough or Oshawa instead? Who knows?

Can you imagine ...

 

[barilko05]

Can you imagine ...

View attachment 791563

Sadly, all 5 were...well, let's just say "not Harold Ballard's kind of players". Even if they weren't European or American, the fact that they all played hundreds or thousands of miles from MLG probably meant that probably nobody in the Leafs organization had even heard of them.

 

[AlienWorkShop]

Toronto used to have a draft best line available policy.

View attachment 791517

Okay, just kidding one was a defenseman.

To you youngsters out there, bet you didn't know you were in purgatory/the Twlight Zone did you?

Honestly, not that bad an outcome considering budget cuts limited us to scouting only one OHL team that year.

 

[4thline]

Minten has Boone Jenner written all over him IMO. You don’t trade that.

Good comp, I've been thinking Mike Fisher for top end- Jenner is similar upside wise but closer stylistically

 

[ULF_55]

Honestly, not that bad an outcome considering budget cuts limited us to scouting only one OHL team that year.

If only phones had been invented before 1989.

 

[4thline]

If we're going to use hindsight on the 2015 draft the clear mulligan to call is on standing pat at 4. Can't fault Hunter for being bullish on Marner, he was right. But considering it's documented fact that we explored dropping to 8 with Columbus, even at a very conservative 8+34+68 for 4 we go from
Marner+Dermott+Bracco+Dzierkals to
Werenski + Konecny + Dermott + Dzierkals

-assuming we took the same player at each slot. Who knows, maybe it would have been Rantanen-Dermott-Aho.

There was a big divide on the board (and in the scouting world) at the time. Conventional wisdom was that it was Hanifin/Marner/Strome (in some order) then a big drop, but there was some of us pushing that the likes of Rantanen/ Barzal/ Werenski/Provorov belonged in the same tier.

Water under the bridge- we got someone that's 50/50 for the HoF so it's hard to complain.

 

[VanW27]

Love the optimism, but Minten really needs to show a lot more offensively to put those players as potential comparisons. I saw someone put Scott Laughton, which seems more reasonable but I'd still call that a lofty "everything goes right" type of projection.

Fisher put up 41 goals and 106 pts in his D+1 and was in the NHL in his D+2

Jenner didn't show much offense in his D+1 but put up 45 goals in 56 games in his D+2 while finishing 26 points ahead of the second highest scorer on his team.

Minten has taken some nice strides since being drafted but the offense still needs to take another big step forward if he's going to be more than a good 4th line C. Right now I'd project a Colton Sissons type of player with some hopes he could be more like Laughton.