Prospect Info: Marlies & Prospect Discussion

[Roadhog]

Dammit I just realized I'm gonna miss Cowen Jan 6th vs the steelheads (only time London plays in sauga). That's like a day or two before world junior gold medal game..bought ticks earlier this year hoping to see him live for cheap in my hometown... Hopefully he dosnt make it

Feb 4th @ Guelph
Feb 11th @ Oshawa
Both are Sunday games
They also have a bunch of weekend afternoon home games

 

[Metroid]

Feb 4th @ Guelph
Feb 11th @ Oshawa
Both are Sunday games
They also have a bunch of weekend afternoon home games

Guelph probably would work, thanks!

 

[WTFMAN99]

Feb 4th @ Guelph
Feb 11th @ Oshawa
Both are Sunday games
They also have a bunch of weekend afternoon home games

Guelph probably would work, thanks!

I was also targeting that game but realized he's likely tied up with Team Canada and now some house reno.

 

[horner]

Knies Matthews Marner
Robertson Tavares Nylander
Cowan Minten Grebenkin
Hirvonen/Tverberg Kampf Holmberg

This is what I could possibly see our forward lineup looking like in 2 yrs. I like that bottom 6, that would have a good mix of size, speed, energy and skill. Would also put Robertson in a position to do well producing with top 6 players.

Would also come cheap and allow us to use cap space going after some defensemen.

Knies Matthews Marner
Robertson Tavares Nylander
Cowan Minten Grebenkin
Hirvonen/Tverberg Kampf Holmberg

This is what I could possibly see our forward lineup looking like in 2 yrs. I like that bottom 6, that would have a good mix of size, speed, energy and skill. Would also put Robertson in a position to do well producing with top 6 players.

Would also come cheap and allow us to use cap space going after some defensemen.

It would be nice to have the same lineup for 3 yrs build chemistry

 

[VanW27]

if got top 6 minutes on a bottom feeder i could definitely see it happening lol

He's pretty much the definition of "AAAA" player. Good enough that if you have injury issues you can call him up, plug him in a hole in the top 6 and he'll contribute. But just not quite enough to ever be a guy you want as an everyday NHLer. Useful player to have around in the organization.

I would expect a similar type of role and career as former Leaf Nic Petan.

 

[darrylsittler27]

The best D in the game right now is 5'11, 187 lbs. You can be a good defender and not be massive.

I assume you mean Makar?

It would be nice to have the same lineup for 3 yrs build chemistry

I doubt we can afford that line up in 3 years.

 

[SprDaVE]

If you have elite attributes to compensate for your lack of size, sure.

There are many competent defenders under 6' without elite offensive talent as well. They aren't all being big or elite, or both. You can be a good player and not be a massive physically imposing giant. I dunno why people think this way.

 

[DarkKnight]

Cowan second in OHL, points per game...

 

[Knies iT]

There are many competent defenders under 6' without elite offensive talent as well. They aren't all being big or elite, or both. You can be a good player and not be a massive physically imposing giant. I dunno why people think this way.

They’re not the norm. Sorry, that’s the reality. Referencing Makar/Fox/Norris D is not a good argument.

Small defenders need to be high level in other areas to compensate, otherwise they’re done a dozen 3rd pair fodder. “Competent” is a loose net.

 

[horner]

I assume you mean Makar?


I doubt we can afford that line up in 3 years.

Minten Cowen Grebyonkin Tverberg Holmberg will be ELC contracts
Knies has 2 yrs left

 

[ULF_55]

They’re not the norm. Sorry, that’s the reality. Referencing Makar/Fox/Norris D is not a good argument.

Small defenders need to be high level in other areas to compensate, otherwise they’re done a dozen 3rd pair fodder. “Competent” is a loose net.

Hard to disagree.

Worse defender get free passes based on size.

 

[SprDaVE]

They’re not the norm. Sorry, that’s the reality. Referencing Makar/Fox/Norris D is not a good argument.

Small defenders need to be high level in other areas to compensate, otherwise they’re done a dozen 3rd pair fodder. “Competent” is a loose net.

I mean that's just not true. Big defenders need to be compensate the same areas to be considered high level... so it's kind of a moot point to say that. Every player needs to be good to be considered good... right? We all know 2 identical players, the bigger/taller one will always be favoured... but they are never identical. "Competent" and "small" are extremely vague without any basis either. One could say --- subjective.

Instead of just saying stuff, I will list you a bunch of top 4 level defenders that are 6' and under'. You can find any excuse you want to say they are this and that but they are all defenders that play over 20 minutes for their respective teams. I won't list Karlsson, Makar or Fox as part of your "not good argument" because why not make random caveats to fit the narrative.

Jared Spurgeon. Kris Letang. Quinn Hughes. Josh Morrisey. Vince Dunn. Brandon Montour. Charlie McAvoy. Rasmus Sandin. Sean Durzi. Jamie Drysdale. Justin Falk. Mackenzie Weegar. Filip Hronek. Torey Krug. Nick Leddy. Sean Walker. Mikey Anderson. Sam Girard. This is just going through 2 pages of TOI/G by defenders.

There are definitely more "big players", as if 6'1" and 180 lbs is considered "big", but to say it's not the norm isn't really valid at all and plenty of players of all kinds of sizes can make long NHL careers in varying levels. 4 of the last 5 Norris trophy winners were 6' and under, while the other was a mere 6'1" and 180 lbs -- Roman Josi, a whole 2 inches taller than Topi Niemela.

 

[Stephen]

I mean that's just not true. Big defenders need to be compensate the same areas to be considered high level... so it's kind of a moot point to say that. Every player needs to be good to be considered good... right? We all know 2 identical players, the bigger/taller one will always be favoured... but they are never identical. "Competent" and "small" are extremely vague without any basis either. One could say --- subjective.

Instead of just saying stuff, I will list you a bunch of top 4 level defenders that are 6' and under'. You can find any excuse you want to say they are this and that but they are all defenders that play over 20 minutes for their respective teams. I won't list Karlsson, Makar or Fox as part of your "not good argument" because why not make random caveats to fit the narrative.

Jared Spurgeon. Kris Letang. Quinn Hughes. Josh Morrisey. Vince Dunn. Brandon Montour. Charlie McAvoy. Rasmus Sandin. Sean Durzi. Jamie Drysdale. Justin Falk. Mackenzie Weegar. Filip Hronek. Torey Krug. Nick Leddy. Sean Walker. Mikey Anderson. Sam Girard. This is just going through 2 pages of TOI/G by defenders.

There are definitely more "big players", as if 6'1" and 180 lbs is considered "big", but to say it's not the norm isn't really valid at all and plenty of players of all kinds of sizes can make long NHL careers in varying levels. 4 of the last 5 Norris trophy winners were 6' and under, while the other was a mere 6'1" and 180 lbs -- Roman Josi, a whole 2 inches taller than Topi Niemela.

Two factors need to be considered when talking about defensemen and size and has little to do with a sample of defensemen of a certain size around the league.

The first thing that needs to be considered is you’re talking about a 6-8 man unit on an NHL team where 2 players can make a significant impact on the characteristics and properties of a blueline and you’re planning for all game situations from special teams to various states of defending and attacking where many body types are needed. So you need a certain ratio. I’ll leave it up to you to decide.

The second thing to consider is the individual defenseman. The better the defenseman, the less a lack of size is a factor. If you’re 6’0” or a little less and putting up Bobby Orr career numbers in the modern game you are welcoming on any team in the league and this goes without saying.

Tying the first two points together. The lower you go on the depth chart you need to supplement your smaller guys with bigger guys who aren’t contributing as much to a transition and skill role. That’s why Vince Dunn has had guys like Oleksiak and Larsson and Soucy and other mutants behind him. That’s why Hughes and Hronek are supported by Myers, Zadorov, Soucy etc this season. Adam Fox has Trouba, Miller.

So if you want to go small, make sure it’s elite small and not okay small. Yes to Quinn Hughes, but don’t surround him with Torey Krug and Rasmus Sandin.

 

[SprDaVE]

Two factors need to be considered when talking about defensemen and size and has little to do with a sample of defensemen of a certain size around the league.

The first thing that needs to be considered is you’re talking about a 6-8 man unit on an NHL team where 2 players can make a significant impact on the characteristics and properties of a blueline and you’re planning for all game situations from special teams to various states of defending and attacking where many body types are needed. So you need a certain ratio. I’ll leave it up to you to decide.

The second thing to consider is the individual defenseman. The better the defenseman, the less a lack of size is a factor. If you’re 6’0” or a little less and putting up Bobby Orr career numbers in the modern game you are welcoming on any team in the league and this goes without saying.

Tying the first two points together. The lower you go on the depth chart you need to supplement your smaller guys with bigger guys who aren’t contributing as much to a transition and skill role. That’s why Vince Dunn has had guys like Oleksiak and Larsson and Soucy and other mutants behind him. That’s why Hughes and Hronek are supported by Myers, Zadorov, Soucy etc this season. Adam Fox has Trouba, Miller.

So if you want to go small, make sure it’s elite small and not okay small. Yes to Quinn Hughes, but don’t surround him with Torey Krug and Rasmus Sandin.

So a team needs a balance of different kinds of players. Yeah... Ok. But that has nothing to do with Niemela's value, effiency and potential, right? The whole basis of this argument. It all started with "He can be a 3rd pairing... his size is a concern". It's not a concern because there are countless players his size having varying degrees of success. Just like if you employ a team full of 6'5" lumberjacks that can't move a puck, you're probably not going to have a successful defensive team just like if you employ 5'10 defenders that can only skate, you're probably not going to have a defensive successful team.

The best pairing in the NHL so far has been Quinn Hughes and Filip Hronek. Neither are tall or big. They would be considered small in this discussion. That team also has Tyler Myers and Nikita Zadorov, but on a different pairing. Which pairing would you prefer? If you were looking their size and only their size, the answer is clear... right? Oh context matters now?

Torey Krug has 730 regular season NHL games on top of 82 playoff games. He's probably not as good as he's been through his career but I would have taken him on my team even if Topi Niemela was already here...

 

[Knies iT]

I mean that's just not true. Big defenders need to be compensate the same areas to be considered high level... so it's kind of a moot point to say that. Every player needs to be good to be considered good... right? We all know 2 identical players, the bigger/taller one will always be favoured... but they are never identical. "Competent" and "small" are extremely vague without any basis either. One could say --- subjective.

Instead of just saying stuff, I will list you a bunch of top 4 level defenders that are 6' and under'. You can find any excuse you want to say they are this and that but they are all defenders that play over 20 minutes for their respective teams. I won't list Karlsson, Makar or Fox as part of your "not good argument" because why not make random caveats to fit the narrative.

Jared Spurgeon. Kris Letang. Quinn Hughes. Josh Morrisey. Vince Dunn. Brandon Montour. Charlie McAvoy. Rasmus Sandin. Sean Durzi. Jamie Drysdale. Justin Falk. Mackenzie Weegar. Filip Hronek. Torey Krug. Nick Leddy. Sean Walker. Mikey Anderson. Sam Girard. This is just going through 2 pages of TOI/G by defenders.

There are definitely more "big players", as if 6'1" and 180 lbs is considered "big", but to say it's not the norm isn't really valid at all and plenty of players of all kinds of sizes can make long NHL careers in varying levels. 4 of the last 5 Norris trophy winners were 6' and under, while the other was a mere 6'1" and 180 lbs -- Roman Josi, a whole 2 inches taller than Topi Niemela.

What is the main point here? You’re basically agreeing with what I said. Idk why people always feel the need to play the progressivist, “anti-bias” Twitter role when this very basic point gets brought up. It’s like a bat signal.

They’re not the norm. The ones that fit the bill compensate for their small stature with elite skating, IQ, evasiveness, etc (Spurgeon, Dunn, Hughes, Girard, etc.). A Matt Roy, Connor Murphy, Carlo, etc is a way lower caliber of player but doesn’t need those same elite characteristics to survive in bigger roles.

Back to Niemela, I see him tracking as a #4/5. The defensive IQ and compete are adequate, but he’s still far too weak and it shows with sustained d zone pressure. He’s a smaller, watered down Liljegren who likes to shoot more but has worse passing accuracy on his outlets. That likely suggests 3rd pair, but we’ll see.

 

[Fogelhund]

""

 

[Stephen]

So a team needs a balance of different kinds of players. Yeah... Ok. But that has nothing to do with Niemela's value, effiency and potential, right? The whole basis of this argument. It all started with "He can be a 3rd pairing... his size is a concern". It's not a concern because there are countless players his size having varying degrees of success. Just like if you employ a team full of 6'5" lumberjacks that can't move a puck, you're probably not going to have a successful defensive team just like if you employ 5'10 defenders that can only skate, you're probably not going to have a defensive successful team.

The best pairing in the NHL so far has been Quinn Hughes and Filip Hronek. Neither are tall or big. They would be considered small in this discussion. That team also has Tyler Myers and Nikita Zadorov, but on different pairings.

Torey Krug has 730 regular season NHL games on top of 82 playoff games. I'd easily take that kind of player on my team even if Topi Niemela was already here.

I have no problem with Topi Niemela. I’m fine letting him develop in the AHL and hopefully he can realize his Top 4 upside and can be a contributor to the big team.

I would have a problem though if he stalls out as bottom pairing guy who is an 5-7 and is neither skillfull or physical enough to play a specific defender role in the NHL. How useful is a Travis Dermott relative to even a William Lagesson? And Dermott isn’t even that small. Just average in every way except skating.

As far as Krug is concerned, do we have a Hall of Fame 6’9” mutant in Chara we can pair off one of our younger smaller guys with? If yes, or we have something similar to build an odd couple it just validates my comment about having a mix of body types. Or you can have a Rafalski with a Stevens or a Lidstrom. The latter combo being one of my favorites.

But if you want to put a Torey Krug with another Torey Krug… and have another Krug on the pairing beneath, be my guest but… at the end of the day why should a team be built like that at all?

 

[Stephen]

""

Cowan is going to be this years WJC Canadian breakout hero. Eberle-esque.

 

[Fogelhund]

Cowan is going to be this years WJC Canadian breakout hero. Eberle-esque.

Wouldn't that be fantastic. It wouldn't shock me to see him on the roster next year.

 

[weems]

Cowan is going to be this years WJC Canadian breakout hero. Eberle-esque.

I assume if he makes the team he will start on the 4th line but they should be willing to move him up the lineup very quickly if he's playing well.

Canada hockey should have a good read on him but at the same time his surge post draft has been pretty crazy, so there could still be some people unaware of just how good he is.

 

[Fogelhund]

14 Year old Jaxon Jacobson makes his WHL debut, and scores two.

Jacobson Scores Twice In Debut, Wheat Kings Win Shootout Thriller - Brandon Wheat Kings

A WHL debut is a special moment for any young man, a game they will not likely forget. Few players in the league’s history, however, authored a debut as memorable as the one Jaxon Jacobson had against the Moose Jaw Warriors. Jacobson scored twice in the third period and the Wheat Kings took a 5-4…

chl.ca

A WHL debut is a special moment for any young man, a game they will not likely forget. Few players in the league’s history, however, authored a debut as memorable as the one Jaxon Jacobson had against the Moose Jaw Warriors.

Jacobson scored twice in the third period and the Wheat Kings took a 5-4 shootout win over the visiting Moose Jaw Warriors.

------------------------------------

Young Star Rising: Jaxon Jacobson's historic debut with the Brandon Wheat Kings

In a stunning turn of events, the Brandon Wheat Kings' highly anticipated 5th overall pick, the hometown hero Jaxon Jacobson, is set to make his debut against the Moose Jaw Warriors on Friday night.At the tender age of 14, Jaxon is poised to etch his name in the record books as the youngest...

730ckdm.com

In a stunning turn of events, the Brandon Wheat Kings' highly anticipated 5th overall pick, the hometown hero Jaxon Jacobson, is set to make his debut against the Moose Jaw Warriors on Friday night.

At the tender age of 14, Jaxon is poised to etch his name in the record books as the youngest player ever to don the Black and Gold jersey in a Wheat Kings debut.

The announcement sent ripples of excitement through the city, as fans eagerly anticipated witnessing the prodigious talent take the ice. Jaxon's journey from being a promising prospect to a debut player for his hometown team is nothing short of extraordinary.

Raised in the hockey culture of Brandon, Jaxon has been honing his skills since he first laced up his skates. The 14-year-old prodigy's remarkable ascent through the ranks has now culminated in a momentous occasion that transcends the boundaries of age and experience.

As the news of his debut spread like wildfire, the entire community rallied behind Jaxon, recognizing the significance of this historic moment. Coaches, teammates, and fans alike are gearing up to witness the young phenom showcase his prowess on the ice, anticipating the sparks of greatness that are sure to follow.

Brandon's Jaxon Jacobson Make History, Scores Twice as 14-Year-Old

Brandon's own Jaxon Jacobson scored two third-period markers, as the Wheat Kings improved to 14-11-4-1 on the year.

gameonhockey.com

Jacobson has 31 points, 13 of which are goals, in just 11 games this year with the U18 club.

 

[stickty111]

Voit recalled to the Marlies

 

[andora]

Voit recalled to the Marlies

Seems so meh after reading the previous post haha

 

[WTFMAN99]

Watched that London game on Friday and Cowan got absolutely robbed of a goal, puck was in the goalie's glove and it was behind the line and somehow even with replay, they didn't count it, boggled my mind.

I get some Marchand vibes with him, he's involved and for the lack of a better word, not a p***y out there. The next wave is coming.

 

[Stephen]

Watched that London game on Friday and Cowan got absolutely robbed of a goal, puck was in the goalie's glove and it was behind the line and somehow even with replay, they didn't count it, boggled my mind.

I get some Marchand vibes with him, he's involved and for the lack of a better word, not a p***y out there. The next wave is coming.

I just want to see Cowan get ahead of Denver Barkley on the London Knights leaderboard.