Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

[Cnile]

Doesn’t Mark have a golf tournament in the city in the summer?
Im kinda curious to hear about how he is feeling about this season and if he’d be candid about his commitment to the club going forward with the new players.

 

[DRW204]

I'd really like to see our preseason D lineup as
Jomo-Samberg
Heinola-DeMelo
Chisholm-Pionk
Hopefully Samberg doesn't look like a train wreck on the right side... if he surprises, that solves a lot of problems

Give Barron, Perfetti, Vilardi a TON of draws before TD - see who seizes the moment

Chevy Blockbuster!!!
Trade a package of Helle, Scheif, Dillon to the Flyers for 1st 2024 (better of the picks, top 5 protected), Frost, Cates, Hart, Seeler and a prospect or 2nd rd pick

Philly make the move because it reopens the Couturier/Konecny window and Helle puts them in the playoffs... Jets make the move for two young emerging Cs

Connor-Frost-Vilardi
Ehlers-Names-Nino
Iafallo-Cates-Perfetti
Barron-Lowry-Kupari

Jomo-Demelo
Samberg-Pionk
Chisholm/Heinola-Schmidt
Seeler

Big gamble on talent emerging... but this could be a really nice team - really could cycle these lines... and these are all players that Bowness would love.

Philly is year-1 of a rebuild w/ a new GM, don't think they do this.

for a team that is trying to make the POs win-now our roster is way worse now.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Philly is year-1 of a rebuild w/ a new GM, don't think they do this.

for a team that is trying to make the POs win-now our roster is way worse now.

I don't see the Jets as making the playoffs with any roster that doesn't include Helle this year... unless they embrace a kraken-style game which Bowness could make happen - but probably not with Scheif as your 1C... I'd call it a wash...

Retool to me, means a couple years of close games but top 15 draft picks and then back in the playoffs.

 

[DRW204]

I don't see the Jets as making the playoffs with any roster that doesn't include Helle this year... unless they embrace a kraken-style game which Bowness could make happen - but probably not with Scheif as your 1C... I'd call it a wash...

Retool to me, means a couple years of close games but top 15 draft picks and then back in the playoffs.

So then they don't trade Helle?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Realistically how do you see them rebuilding? They have 2 years of Konecny and Atkinson, six years of Sanheim and Couturier, 3-4 years of Laughton, Risto and Kayes dead cap...

They tried to trade guys for a rebuild and it didn't work - this trade would put them in the playoffs imo... Philly's rebuild is going to hit Buffalo Sabres territory...


To be fair, this team with Scheif, Names, Lowry, Kupari down the middle doesn't make the playoffs either.

Philly has only just begun their rebuild and you are writing it off already?

Jets now are a better team than the one that made the PO last year. Definitely not a contender but probably a PO team. If Scheif and/or Helle go it will depend on the returns.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Trade Scheifele to the Caps for Kusznetsov plus one of Orio or Chesley plus a 1st round draft pick.

I'd buy that.

Kuznetsov has a no-trade clause.

And he has asked to be traded. How picky do you think he would be?

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

And he has asked to be traded. How picky do you think he would be?

I don't think saying anywhere but Winnipeg is being at all picky.

 

[Whileee]

I'd buy that.



And he has asked to be traded. How picky do you think he would be?

Picky enough to avoid Winnipeg.

Regardless, I really don't see the rationale for acquiring Kuznetsov, and highly doubt the Jets would consider it. The feeling is probably mutual.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Picky enough to avoid Winnipeg.

Regardless, I really don't see the rationale for acquiring Kuznetsov, and highly doubt the Jets would consider it. The feeling is probably mutual.

2 years of him vs 1 of Scheif
+ RHD prospect
+ 1st

 

[surixon]

2 years of him vs 1 of Scheif
+ RHD prospect
+ 1st

He also isn't nearly as good as Mark these days and is significantly overpaid for his current contributions.

I really don't see why we'd bring in an $8 million 2C who looks like his game is on the decline. I'd rather try Vilardi/Cole there. I'd be confident both could produce his 45 to 55 points.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

He also isn't nearly as good as Mark these days and is significantly overpaid for his current contributions.

I really don't see why we'd bring in an $8 million 2C who looks like his game is on the decline. I'd rather try Vilardi/Cole there. I'd be confident both could produce his 45 to 55 points.

Is Kuz really in decline? He had 1 poor season. .68 ppg last year, .99 ppg the year before.

 

[surixon]

Is Kuz really in decline? He had 1 poor season. .68 ppg last year, .99 ppg the year before.

Completely miss read his point totals for 2022.....

However the overall trend is a an annual decline in points from his high water mark in 2018:
2018 1.05 ppg
2019 0.96 ppg
2020 0.83 ppg
2021 0.71 ppg
2022 0.99 ppg
2023 0.68 ppg

So to me outside what is looking like an outlier year in 2022 the trend indicates he's likely to continue to perform at a 2C level.as that is whatvhe was 2 of the last 3 seasons.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Completely miss read his point totals for 2022.....

However the overall trend is a an annual decline in points from his high water mark in 2018:
2018 1.05 ppg
2019 0.96 ppg
2020 0.83 ppg
2021 0.71 ppg
2022 0.99 ppg
2023 0.68 ppg

So to me outside what is looking like an outlier year in 2022 the trend indicates he's likely to continue to perform at a 2C level.as that is whatvhe was 2 of the last 3 seasons.

So ..... that might not be a bad return on Scheif, depending on what other offers we get. It is 2 years of a vet 2C + a likely fairly high pick, say 10-15 + a decent RHD prospect. The 2 years of Kuz buys a little time to develop a top 6C or buy one elsewhere.

Not sure why, or if, the Caps do it.

 

[DRW204]

I'm gonna say close to 0 chance Kuznetsov has us off his ntc
And I'll probably say close to 0 chance TNSE brings him in, especially for scheifele.

 

[10Ducky10]

J. T, Miller's contract kicks in this upcoming season and he is getting 8m over 7 years for 56m.
He has averaged 69.2 points the last 5 seasons.

Scheif has averaged 71.6 points over the last 5 sesaons.

Let's assume Chevy does not want to trade him and offers him his best reasonable deal he can over 6, 7, or 8 years.

What does he offer him?

I'm offering him something like 6 x 8.83 or 53m over 6 years that is front loaded so his last two years are only paying him an actual salary of 5.5m. Give him a NMC for the first 3 years.
10
10
10
10
5.5
5.5

He'd make another 53m and be 37 years old when the contract expired.

I don't think he'd take the offer.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

J. T, Miller's contract kicks in this upcoming season and he is getting 8m over 7 years for 56m.
He has averaged 69.2 points the last 5 seasons.

Scheif has averaged 71.6 points over the last 5 sesaons.

Let's assume Chevy does not want to trade him and offers him his best reasonable deal he can over 6, 7, or 8 years.

What does he offer him?

I'm offering him something like 6 x 8.83 or 53m over 6 years that is front loaded so his last two years are only paying him an actual salary of 5.5m. Give him a NMC for the first 3 years.
10
10
10
10
5.5
5.5

He'd make another 53m and be 37 years old when the contract expired.

I don't think he'd take the offer.

Omfg. Don't use bad contracts as a comparable...

I can see TNSE doing this and locking us down with a player who hit his peak AFTER our playoff run... stopped playing D and phoned it in until his contract year... Just my opinion but I don't expect Scheif to see a corner or win a puck battle for the next six years... he will score 25-30 though

If anything offer Scheif $10m for two years - because NO ONE in the league will give him that $$ and we are only paying to keep Connor happy and hopefully re-signed - by then Lambert, Lucius or Vilardi should be ready to carry the mantle - TNSE is happy that their first ever pick 'hit' and Scheif gets to leave for a contender at 32

If Scheif goes UFA maybe he gets it... but I also see that Scheif at $9m a year uses up a lot of $$ for Connor, Vilardi, Perfetti, Lambert, etc...

 

[Gil Fisher]

I think both sides would look to the Zibanejed contract. Same age, but signed two years earlier for 8 years. 55 should look for 6 years and 9-9.5m AAV. It signs itself if both parties are willing to extend the relationship.

 

[Cnile]

To me it’s ALL about how much you want to be here.
Mark’s exit comments the last couple of years don’t seem to indicate anything that sends positive signals about his wanting to be here.
There would be nothing worse than signing him to a long term contract when he isn’t all in.

 

[Whileee]

Omfg. Don't use bad contracts as a comparable...

I can see TNSE doing this and locking us down with a player who hit his peak AFTER our playoff run... stopped playing D and phoned it in until his contract year... Just my opinion but I don't expect Scheif to see a corner or win a puck battle for the next six years... he will score 25-30 though

If anything offer Scheif $10m for two years - because NO ONE in the league will give him that $$ and we are only paying to keep Connor happy and hopefully re-signed - by then Lambert, Lucius or Vilardi should be ready to carry the mantle - TNSE is happy that their first ever pick 'hit' and Scheif gets to leave for a contender at 32

If Scheif goes UFA maybe he gets it... but I also see that Scheif at $9m a year uses up a lot of $$ for Connor, Vilardi, Perfetti, Lambert, etc...

Scheifele is very active in puck battles, but mainly in the offensive zone.

He's actually a hard worker, but doesn't have a focus on defensive play.

He's not the only top offensive player like that. MacKinnon is very offense focused. So is Draisaitl. Tage Thompson. Watch Pasternak - he relies on Bergeron (and Marchand) for a lot of the D zone grinding work.

Scheifele could improve his defensive focus and effort, but he could also be put with forwards that are more effective in those roles. It's easier to work around Scheifele's or Connor's D than it is to find elite scoring talent among the grittier players. The problem with the Jets has been that they haven't had enough effective two-way forwards to build around Scheifele and Connor. Niederreiter, Vilardi and Iafallo are a good start. Also, Jets coaches have put Scheifele with Connor and Wheeler way too much, since both of them lack defensive zone awareness and capabilities.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

J. T, Miller's contract kicks in this upcoming season and he is getting 8m over 7 years for 56m.
He has averaged 69.2 points the last 5 seasons.

Scheif has averaged 71.6 points over the last 5 sesaons.

Let's assume Chevy does not want to trade him and offers him his best reasonable deal he can over 6, 7, or 8 years.

What does he offer him?

I'm offering him something like 6 x 8.83 or 53m over 6 years that is front loaded so his last two years are only paying him an actual salary of 5.5m. Give him a NMC for the first 3 years.
10
10
10
10
5.5
5.5

He'd make another 53m and be 37 years old when the contract expired.

I don't think he'd take the offer.

I don't remember the details but the CBA limits front loading. Pretty sure you couldn't do it quite like that. Whatever is allowed, do the max.

I have no idea whether he would take it or not.

 

[10Ducky10]

I don't remember the details but the CBA limits front loading. Pretty sure you couldn't do it quite like that. Whatever is allowed, do the max.

I have no idea whether he would take it or not.

I think the smallest year can't be less than half of the biggest year?
You could also get around this by siding bonuses I think.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think the smallest year can't be less than half of the biggest year?
You could also get around this by siding bonuses I think.

Something like that, but I think there is also something about the change from one year to the next. Doesn't matter. Whatever is the max allowed is what you do. Make those last 2 years as cheap as possible. It is not only about keeping the actual dollar cost of those years light, which might make the contract easier to move. It is also about making a buyout as cheap as possible.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Scheifele is very active in puck battles, but mainly in the offensive zone.

He's actually a hard worker, but doesn't have a focus on defensive play.

He's not the only top offensive player like that. MacKinnon is very offense focused. So is Draisaitl. Tage Thompson. Watch Pasternak - he relies on Bergeron (and Marchand) for a lot of the D zone grinding work.

Scheifele could improve his defensive focus and effort, but he could also be put with forwards that are more effective in those roles. It's easier to work around Scheifele's or Connor's D than it is to find elite scoring talent among the grittier players. The problem with the Jets has been that they haven't had enough effective two-way forwards to build around Scheifele and Connor. Niederreiter, Vilardi and Iafallo are a good start. Also, Jets coaches have put Scheifele with Connor and Wheeler way too much, since both of them lack defensive zone awareness and capabilities.

To paraphrase my mother, if Draisaitl jumped off a bridge, does that mean Scheifele should jump off a bridge, too? In truth, something I would actually pay to watch but I digress...

IOW, don't be holding them up as shining examples to be emulated. If Bergeron et al pull their weight at both ends, why shouldn't Scheifele? Especially for the money he will soon be making. Why should coaches have to worry about getting other players to cover up Scheifele's mistakes instead of just getting him to play defence? How many employers give performance reviews along the lines of, you fail at half your duties but that's OK, other workers can look after those things? And with each passing year, he's only going to get worse. But hey Jets, go ahead and lock up your pouty poster boy for the rest of his career. Makes life easier for me. As long as he's on the team, I feel completely unconflicted about my lack of support for my hometown team.

 

[abax44]

To paraphrase my mother, if Draisaitl jumped off a bridge, does that mean Scheifele should jump off a bridge, too? In truth, something I would actually pay to watch but I digress...

IOW, don't be holding them up as shining examples to be emulated. If Bergeron et al pull their weight at both ends, why shouldn't Scheifele? Especially for the money he will soon be making. Why should coaches have to worry about getting other players to cover up Scheifele's mistakes instead of just getting him to play defence? How many employers give performance reviews along the lines of, you fail at half your duties but that's OK, other workers can look after those things? And with each passing year, he's only going to get worse. But hey Jets, go ahead and lock up your pouty poster boy for the rest of his career. Makes life easier for me. As long as he's on the team, I feel completely unconflicted about my lack of support for my hometown team.

You can be shit at cold calls but a beast of a closer and you will absolutely get the big bonus. Scheif is a closer.

Whether or not you agree with that is up to you.

 

[DRW204]

To paraphrase my mother, if Draisaitl jumped off a bridge, does that mean Scheifele should jump off a bridge, too? In truth, something I would actually pay to watch but I digress...

IOW, don't be holding them up as shining examples to be emulated. If Bergeron et al pull their weight at both ends, why shouldn't Scheifele? Especially for the money he will soon be making. Why should coaches have to worry about getting other players to cover up Scheifele's mistakes instead of just getting him to play defence? How many employers give performance reviews along the lines of, you fail at half your duties but that's OK, other workers can look after those things? And with each passing year, he's only going to get worse. But hey Jets, go ahead and lock up your pouty poster boy for the rest of his career. Makes life easier for me. As long as he's on the team, I feel completely unconflicted about my lack of support for my hometown team.

You'd pay to watch someone jump off a bridge all over some sports games. It ain't that serious.