Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

[bennylundholm]

Scheif and Helle...
5 x 8.8m.
6 x 8m
7 x 7m.

I'm fine signing Helle to a 5 year deal.
We will never win anything with 55. He is not a team player.

 

[bennylundholm]

To me 55 to Boston makes the most sense. Looking at what they have to give up though, really only Swayman makes sense now that trade protection has kicked in for Carlo. Another small winger in Lysel or a LHD in Lohrei or Gryz don’t really make sense.

But we need to figure out Helle’s situation before a Swayman return makes sense to us.

The thing is at this point unless there is an arbitration award that surprises someone, there really isn’t that much urgency.

In fact we may want to see if we can go long with Villardi before committing that capspace in a retained trade or to the acquisition of a more expensive player.

I do wonder if it doesn’t make the most sense to start the year with 55 playing on the wing to see if Perfetti and/or Villardi can handle the move to the middle in a top 6 capacity and give a Lucius/Lambert 20 games in the A to go point per game warranting a call up. See if Kupari or maybe even Baron might be too 6 C options. If they all flame out maybe keeping 55 around starts looking like a necessity. Maybe if teams get off to bad starts the offers increase?

Will be interesting to see how it plays out as arbitration hearings get closer.

I hope 55 is traded by September. If not, I agree that we'd be best with him on the wing.


KFC. Vilardi. Ehlers
Iafalo. Perfetti. Scheifele
Nino. Lowry. Namestnikov
Barron. Kupari. Apples

 

[10Ducky10]

I hope 55 is traded by September. If not, I agree that we'd be best with him on the wing.


KFC. Vilardi. Ehlers
Iafalo. Perfetti. Scheifele
Nino. Lowry. Namestnikov
Barron. Kupari. Apples

You need someone with better hands playing with Scheif and Perfetti if you are playing Scheif on the wing...

Nino Perfetti Scheifele
KFC Vilardi Kup
Iafallo Namestnikov Ehlers
Barron Lowry Apples

You could also switch Ehlers with Kup.

Perfetti JMo Scheif KC Ehlers on PP1
Vilardi Nino Names Lowry and Pionk or Schmidt on PP2

 

[cbcwpg]

JMO, but it might just end up being that the best contract Chef ends up with is right here in Winnipeg. If the market for trading him was really strong, he would have been traded already. Who knows... maybe the Jets go to Chef and tell him that no one wants to trade for him with a reasonable return for the Jets, because of what he would end up wanting money wise on a next contract, so the best offer you are going to get is from the Jets.

 

[surixon]

You need someone with better hands playing with Scheif and Perfetti if you are playing Scheif on the wing...

Nino Perfetti Scheifele
KFC Vilardi Kup
Iafallo Namestnikov Ehlers
Barron Lowry Apples

You could also switch Ehlers with Kup.

Perfetti JMo Scheif KC Ehlers on PP1
Vilardi Nino Names Lowry and Pionk or Schmidt on PP2

Balanced lines. I like it.

 

[DRW204]

I'm fine signing Helle to a 5 year deal.
We will never win anything with 55. He is not a team player.

If we are winning nothing with him, then we are winning less than nothing without him. Winless in the PO's against Vegas, and Montreal without scheifele with barely any goals for.

 

[Boonk]

The offensive depth keyed with the better defensive forwards should make due with the problems we had down the stretch with scoring.

No telling what they’ll do with Scheifele at this point anymore, but if we keep him as an own rental for his last year, I think he’ll do better with less load time and better defensive wingers up front

 

[ps241]

If we are winning nothing with him, then we are winning less than nothing without him. Winless in the PO's against Vegas, and Montreal without scheifele with barely any goals for.

In fairness he had 1 point in 4 games vs Vegas so he wasn’t producing this off season before he got hurt. He has traditionally been an important piece for us in the playoffs but he was off to a slow start vs the Knights.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

JMO, but it might just end up being that the best contract Chef ends up with is right here in Winnipeg. If the market for trading him was really strong, he would have been traded already. Who knows... maybe the Jets go to Chef and tell him that no one wants to trade for him with a reasonable return for the Jets, because of what he would end up wanting money wise on a next contract, so the best offer you are going to get is from the Jets.

If 55 buys that, he's as stupid as I think he is, and his agent is even stupider. You find out what the best offer is by becoming a UFA. Who knows, that might well be the Jets. Like they say...

If the Jets love Scheifele, they will set him free. If he comes back... lock the f***ing doors!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The offensive depth keyed with the better defensive forwards should make due with the problems we had down the stretch with scoring.

No telling what they’ll do with Scheifele at this point anymore, but if we keep him as an own rental for his last year, I think he’ll do better with less load time and better defensive wingers up front

If we keep him as an own rental, I want Chevy fired - into the Sun.
If its Chipman's fault, I want him to fire himself.

 

[Weezeric]

If we keep him as an own rental, I want Chevy fired - into the Sun.
If its Chipman's fault, I want him to fire himself.

So if the Jets trade him for a 2nd and a B prospect, you’d be happy with that?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So if the Jets trade him for a 2nd and a B prospect, you’d be happy with that?

No, of course not. That's not happening. Just as a 1 year rental he returns a lot more than that.

We may not get what we think he is worth but the worst offer will be better than that. Teams that want a 1 year rental may not have cap space. In that case we retain salary.

 

[bennylundholm]

If we are winning nothing with him, then we are winning less than nothing without him. Winless in the PO's against Vegas, and Montreal without scheifele with barely any goals for.

Yikes.

 

[tbcwpg]

Yikes.

It's true, in the playoffs especially, the team as is looks and plays even worse without 55. The playoffs are tight enough, take away a scoring threat and it gets even tighter.

 

[DRW204]

In fairness he had 1 point in 4 games vs Vegas so he wasn’t producing this off season before he got hurt. He has traditionally been an important piece for us in the playoffs but he was off to a slow start vs the Knights.

In fairness one of those 4 games, it was really 2 shifts he played before he got hurt

We're 1-7 with 11 goal-for in the PO's/play-ins without him.

Yikes.

???

Look at this team vs CGY in the play-ins, MTL or VGK after he left

 

[bennylundholm]

In fairness one of those 4 games, it was really 2 shifts he played before he got hurt

We're 1-7 with 11 goal-for in the PO's/play-ins without him.


???

Look at this team vs CGY in the play-ins, MTL or VGK after he left

True that 55 has produced offensively in playoffs past.
However, we're kidding ourselves if we believe he will magically play a team game at this point. The proof is in the pudding.
Consistently weak effort back checking, little attention to detail, long shifts, next to no body checking, etc.
This guy has not been on board with the team plan for years. I'm sure if he was on most other teams the leadership group and coaches would have tuned him in.
Embarrassing for a guy wearing an "A" to play like he does.
A "Team" concept wins cups. The argument that we need to keep him for his offensive production misses the big picture.

 

[KingBogo]

In fairness one of those 4 games, it was really 2 shifts he played before he got hurt

We're 1-7 with 11 goal-for in the PO's/play-ins without him.


???

Look at this team vs CGY in the play-ins, MTL or VGK after he left

We have absolutely floundered whenever Scheifele has been out of the lineup in the playoffs. Also he has proved to be a playoff producer going back to 2018.

 

[Potrzebie]

No, of course not. That's not happening. Just as a 1 year rental he returns a lot more than that.

We may not get what we think he is worth but the worst offer will be better than that. Teams that want a 1 year rental may not have cap space. In that case we retain salary.

I dunno man, if opposing GMs read this forum they'll know how much he sucks and won't be offering much more for him.

 

[DRW204]

True that 55 has produced offensively in playoffs past.
However, we're kidding ourselves if we believe he will magically play a team game at this point. The proof is in the pudding.
Consistently weak effort back checking, little attention to detail, long shifts, next to no body checking, etc.
This guy has not been on board with the team plan for years. I'm sure if he was on most other teams the leadership group and coaches would have tuned him in.
Embarrassing for a guy wearing an "A" to play like he does.
A "Team" concept wins cups. The argument that we need to keep him for his offensive production misses the big picture.

The way you describe it, a selfish /individualistic player that only cares about points and not the team, makes it seem like you think we're better for without him. Apologize if I'm incorrect here or putting words in your mouth.

However, like you say - proof is in the pudding: how this team's performed in reality without him is even further away from winning a cup, as it is constructed today.

Id think, based on your description, without a selfish /points-only player we'd be better than 1-7 in the PO's.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I dunno man, if opposing GMs read this forum they'll know how much he sucks and won't be offering much more for him.

If opposing GMs make trade decisions based on fan angst after a disappointing end to a season ...........................
Hell, I can do that job for a fraction of what they get paid, if you want it done that badly.

He is still a legit 1C. He scored 42 effing goals last year and nothing pays better in the NHL than scoring goals. His D play is no worse than many other top offensive players in the league and is actually better than some. And he is not just a finisher either. Once out of the Dzone he is an all around C. He is worth a lot. A LOT.

 

[Potrzebie]

If opposing GMs make trade decisions based on fan angst after a disappointing end to a season ...........................
Hell, I can do that job for a fraction of what they get paid, if you want it done that badly.

He is still a legit 1C. He scored 42 effing goals last year and nothing pays better in the NHL than scoring goals. His D play is no worse than many other top offensive players in the league and is actually better than some. And he is not just a finisher either. Once out of the Dzone he is an all around C. He is worth a lot. A LOT.

I didn't mean it literally.

55 sure is a polarizing player. I read alternating posts on here about how he's a selfish locker room cancer concerned only with his own stats, followed up by how opposing GMs will be lining up to pay a haul for him.

 

[ps241]

In fairness one of those 4 games, it was really 2 shifts he played before he got hurt

We're 1-7 with 11 goal-for in the PO's/play-ins without him.


???

Look at this team vs CGY in the play-ins, MTL or VGK after he left

He got injured again and he was off to a slow start by his standards.

I don’t love us “with him” in the playoffs anymore. I like us less without him. I don’t think he says so most of the debating is probably moot but who knows.

 

[DRW204]

We have absolutely floundered whenever Scheifele has been out of the lineup in the playoffs. Also he has proved to be a playoff producer going back to 2018.

it's ridiculous the hate scheifele gets tbh. think of what you want off the ice, but on the ice he's one of our most important players. the guy was one of our more consistent goal-scorers through the year. that's while playing w/ a turnstile of stud wingers like gagner, appleton, kuhlman, barron during the first half..... and still managed to lead this team in goals.

POs come around, & w/o the supposed "not a team player" this team folds worse than me doing laundry. no one to carry the bill offensively, no one steps up at all.

since 17-18
this team in the POs (ofc smaller sample of games so 1-2 results can sway things heavily - however think overall most would agree this team does not step up):

overall 17-23, 109 GF, 115 GA (2.7, 2.9 per game)
w/o 55 1-7, 11 GF, 29 GA (1.4, 3.6 per game)
w/ 55 16-16, 98 GF, 86 GA (3.1, 2.7 per game)

keep him away from Kyle Connor and he'll come out fine in net-offense (last season @ 5v5-hockey: KC+55 were -4 together, w/o KC he was a +5)

i think he w/ nino+ehlers would form a really good line with a great mix of play-styles: size/speed/zone entries/playmaking/scoring

 

[WpgSteve]

Didn't Scheifele get into trouble for expecting too much dedication from the other guys on the team at one point? It was around the time his 2 way effort became suspect. He likely got discouraged by the country club atmosphere and checked out a bit.

 

[10Ducky10]

it's ridiculous the hate scheifele gets tbh. think of what you want off the ice, but on the ice he's one of our most important players. the guy was one of our more consistent goal-scorers through the year. that's while playing w/ a turnstile of stud wingers like gagner, appleton, kuhlman, barron during the first half..... and still managed to lead this team in goals.

POs come around, & w/o the supposed "not a team player" this team folds worse than me doing laundry. no one to carry the bill offensively, no one steps up at all.

since 17-18
this team in the POs (ofc smaller sample of games so 1-2 results can sway things heavily - however think overall most would agree this team does not step up):

overall 17-23, 109 GF, 115 GA (2.7, 2.9 per game)
w/o 55 1-7, 11 GF, 29 GA (1.4, 3.6 per game)
w/ 55 16-16, 98 GF, 86 GA (3.1, 2.7 per game)

keep him away from Kyle Connor and he'll come out fine in net-offense (last season @ 5v5-hockey: KC+55 were -4 together, w/o KC he was a +5)

i think he w/ nino+ehlers would form a really good line with a great mix of play-styles: size/speed/zone entries/playmaking/scoring

I want to see him with Perfetti.
You have a set up (Perfetti) man, a goal scorer/set up (Scheif) man and a guy that can work the corners with a decent set of hands to put the puck in because you know if you are playing with Scheif and Perfetti, they are going to find you.