Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

[LowLefty]

It's ok this site is good for disagreements, I think you are right more often than you are wrong. But I can't think of any fan base that holds a hostility towards a guy who finished top 10 in goal scoring this year, more than ours...

What if I said that Mark Scheifele has more career goals in one playoff as a Jet than Connor, Ehlers and Dubois have combined over their time here?

I just don't get some of what you and others say about him...

When he complains to the refs it's usually because he is trying so hard and gets screwed. Showing signs he cares...who else had the balls to say that the NHL doesn't want the Jets to win after he got suspended?

Criticism which is often followed up my he doesn't care about the team, but his body language whenever he gets scored on would indicate otherwise. He's a fierce competitor.

He's terrible defensively...can someone post the stats Perfetti-Scheifele-Wheeler had as a line?

I love watching our very first playoff game where young Mark had to matchup against Getzlaf and Kesler in their primes. He wasn't quite there yet, but you could see we had a player.

8 years later and the luster has completely worn off this player.

I understand and I don't understand.

He's a great player when he wants to be - and if we are going to looks at his goals as the only indicator, it's hard to argue with your points.
But there's more to it and I'm sure you are aware -
I like how he is playing right now - our PO chances are vastly improved based on his current game. Looking forward to see him shut down the neg feedback - including mine from time to time.
Fans will be fans . . .

 

[Ducky10]

He's a great player when he wants to be - and if we are going to looks at his goals as the only indicator, it's hard to argue with your points.
But there's more to it and I'm sure you are aware -
I like how he is playing right now - our PO chances are vastly improved based on his current game. Looking forward to see him shut down the neg feedback - including mine from time to time.
Fans will be fans . . .

I’ve had far less of an issue with Scheifele since his move to the wing. Not being good defensively and seeming to have no interest in it are different things. His play in his own end didn’t do him any favours the past few years, and it was about more than how good he was at it or not.

 

[voyageur]

He's a great player when he wants to be - and if we are going to looks at his goals as the only indicator, it's hard to argue with your points.
But there's more to it and I'm sure you are aware -
I like how he is playing right now - our PO chances are vastly improved based on his current game. Looking forward to see him shut down the neg feedback - including mine from time to time.
Fans will be fans . . .

I think one truth that has come to light over this season is that if Mark Scheifele is not playing his best the Jets are not competitive.

As a fan who has been along for the ride for 12 years now, it's become more evident to me that players are not machines...they don't always operate the way they should. This season we've seen rough patches out of just about every player, except Josh Morrissey, some more prolonged than others. That's the very nature of hockey, it's ebb and flow. Playoffs require another level of competing.

Vegas will be a tough test for Scheifele because they possess the kind of defense that can lean on him a lot, wear him down, so he's going to need that extra desire to score. If Brossoit gets the net, I think Scheifele might be able to pick him apart...But this team needs Mark Scheifele's goals. Take his stats out of the lineup and it's a lottery team.

The negative goal differential the past couple of seasons is concerning. Moving him into a more hybrid centre position hopefully pays dividends. Mark Scheifele's prime years may be numbered, and he's going to have to learn to adapt other skills to remain competitive in the league. Converting to the wing may help him career wise.

Maybe the most surprising stat to me is how few assists he has for how many grade A scoring chances he has set up. That would be a ratio of conversion I'd be interested to know. His passing game is underrated.

 

[Slimy Sculpin]

I think one truth that has come to light over this season is that if Mark Scheifele is not playing his best the Jets are not competitive.

As a fan who has been along for the ride for 12 years now, it's become more evident to me that players are not machines...they don't always operate the way they should. This season we've seen rough patches out of just about every player, except Josh Morrissey, some more prolonged than others. That's the very nature of hockey, it's ebb and flow. Playoffs require another level of competing.

Vegas will be a tough test for Scheifele because they possess the kind of defense that can lean on him a lot, wear him down, so he's going to need that extra desire to score. If Brossoit gets the net, I think Scheifele might be able to pick him apart...But this team needs Mark Scheifele's goals. Take his stats out of the lineup and it's a lottery team.

The negative goal differential the past couple of seasons is concerning. Moving him into a more hybrid centre position hopefully pays dividends. Mark Scheifele's prime years may be numbered, and he's going to have to learn to adapt other skills to remain competitive in the league. Converting to the wing may help him career wise.

Maybe the most surprising stat to me is how few assists he has for how many grade A scoring chances he has set up. That would be a ratio of conversion I'd be interested to know. His passing game is underrated.

His passing game in the o-zone may be under-rated but his passing game getting into the o-zone leaves a heck of a lot to be desired. I'm hoping that as a winger, he'll be on the receiving end of crisp, accurate passes through the neutral zone and entering the o-zone.

 

[ps241]

It's ok this site is good for disagreements, I think you are right more often than you are wrong. But I can't think of any fan base that holds a hostility towards a guy who finished top 10 in goal scoring this year, more than ours...

What if I said that Mark Scheifele has more career goals in one playoff as a Jet than Connor, Ehlers and Dubois have combined over their time here?

I just don't get some of what you and others say about him...

When he complains to the refs it's usually because he is trying so hard and gets screwed. Showing signs he cares...who else had the balls to say that the NHL doesn't want the Jets to win after he got suspended?

Criticism which is often followed up my he doesn't care about the team, but his body language whenever he gets scored on would indicate otherwise. He's a fierce competitor.

He's terrible defensively...can someone post the stats Perfetti-Scheifele-Wheeler had as a line?

I love watching our very first playoff game where young Mark had to matchup against Getzlaf and Kesler in their primes. He wasn't quite there yet, but you could see we had a player.

8 years later and the luster has completely worn off this player.

I understand and I don't understand.

Sorry I was in the parking lot dropping my daughter off at Gymnatics so I could only do a short post. To be clear I do agere with some of your points but want to push back a bit on a few.

I was a day 1 fan of Schiefele and one of his few early days advocates with GIN. While we were getting shredded with the missed pick on Couts I was bullish long term on Mark. I was a huge fan watching his meteoric rise to the level of a PPG #1 centre and probably top 10 centre in the NHL in his prime culminating in his 2017-18 playoff appearance. The was the peak of my fandome for Mark as he rode shotgun to a prime Blake Wheeler.

As a player I was always hoping Mark would round out his game as time went on but that wasn’t the case. He seemed to be more focused and concerned with point generation that preventing goals against. This didn’t make me like Mark less I just needed to adjust my expectations of his ceiling accordingly. I always appreciated Mark the scoring centre until last season.

Mark as far as a popularity contest its way more grey area stuff so its just how I fee. I loved the ah shucks Mark but that seemed to come to an end in 2018-19. Our room appeared fractured and we had rifts and diva’s. This culminated in the bizaroo world end of the year press conference after the loss to St Louis when Schief just sat there?? Ok everyone processed defeat differently but I thought Mark was becoming too much like Blake personality wise. Things kind of normalized and not in a great way around the new power dynamic. That is up until last year which was a shit show. I was pretty fed up with our stars, with our coaching, and with our organization after last season. I was ready to move on from Blake and Mark in the off season.

That being said the Org fired all the coaches and I was ready to turn the page and give it another try. I liked how things started out this season and was pretty public in my praise for how Mark was back to trying in all zones again and I liked what I saw. I haven’t watched allot of hockey lately but when the bitching about Mark falling back into his old habits rose up I was dissapointed. Now hopeful we go on a playoff run.

However it’s really more about the go forward path for me.

There is a good chance Mark doesn’t want to be here on his next deal so my point and the debate is probably moot. Even if he agrees to an overpayment to stay our team will probablly have to pay Mark on a $9- $10 million x 7 or 8 year deal. I have no interest in that deal.

He is a productive player and we would miss that but 1st line with 1st unit PP is prime usage spot and that spot will always yield points. My guess is if Mark’s replacement works hard on defense they will claw back allot of the missed scoring by giving up less against. I just don’t have any interest in that next contract and watching Mark age out here. I would prefer we maximize the return on Mark, reconstruct the team a bit, and utilize that 9-10 million dollars of cap space better over the next 8-9 years.

This is getting TLDR but I think Winnipeg is not alone in eating their young in the Canadian Market. Leafs fans hate for a kid like Mitch Marner because of his contract was so off the charts up until this season that it makes our treatment of Mark look like a love in.

 

[jiho]

I am done with Scheifele. He does not have the commitment to play the game without the puck. I would keep him if he would stay on the wing but I dont think that is going to be an option. I dont want to pay a player in his thirties with a questionable work ethic 8M a year for the next six years or so. Can we replace his offense? Very unlikely. We will probably be worse off with out him but we are not going to win with him. I would gamble the return we get for him turns out. Scheifele can go chew on his mouthguard in another city. I am done with him.

 

[Jet]

Even with 42 goals its his worst offensive season since his second season! (on ppg basis) And then you look at the defensive numbers and fancy stats.....it's horrendous, there's just no sugar coating it.

A lot was made about how he started the season with very few assists which is unlike 55 and I think the conclusion was his line mates were remarkably bad at converting chances.

I'm pretty sure if he produced an expected amount of assists he'd have been taking for his best season yet, it was an anomaly.

As for his defensive effort, I can't make a case for him there. Both he and Connor were atrocious all year.

 

[lablite47]

Has anyone else noted that the media (and org) has pretty much been ignoring Fifi in their reporting and or discussions? Seems to me like they don't want to talk about his non performance lately and are letting him deal with it on his own to hopefully snap out of it? He has an A on his jersey and is never available to the media following games anymore. I'm inclined to think that there may be some lingering physical ailement affecting his play. His play has definitely gone done hill and looks lethargic for quite some time now and his +/- continues to be atrocious. Might be time to cash in on him before he worsens?

 

[Jet]

Has anyone else noted that the media (and org) has pretty much been ignoring Fifi in their reporting and or discussions? Seems to me like they don't want to talk about his non performance lately and are letting him deal with it on his own to hopefully snap out of it? He has an A on his jersey and is never available to the media following games anymore. I'm inclined to think that there may be some lingering physical ailement affecting his play. His play has definitely gone done hill and looks lethargic for quite some time now and his +/- continues to be atrocious. Might be time to cash in on him before he worsens?

I thought 55 was really good in game one and the first period last night.

As he faded, so did the team. I don't know if Schiefele realizes how much of an impact he has on the team - I'm not even sure I put it together until now.

Or, I could just be out to lunch

I kind of wish they would have given someone the C before the playoffs started - I would have said either Lowry or Morrissey

 

[lablite47]

Morissey is great but too quiet and soft and PLD is most likely not signing long term so, only deserving character player left would be Lowry for captain.

 

[surixon]

I thought 55 was really good in game one and the first period last night.

As he faded, so did the team. I don't know if Schiefele realizes how much of an impact he has on the team - I'm not even sure I put it together until now.

Or, I could just be out to lunch

I kind of wish they would have given someone the C before the playoffs started - I would have said either Lowry or Morrissey

It will be interesting to see who gets the C this summer. Both JoMo or Lowry would be good choices.

 

[scelaton]

I thought 55 was really good in game one and the first period last night.

As he faded, so did the team. I don't know if Schiefele realizes how much of an impact he has on the team - I'm not even sure I put it together until now.

Or, I could just be out to lunch

I kind of wish they would have given someone the C before the playoffs started - I would have said either Lowry or Morrissey

Yes, he was good in game 1 but was back to looking like he was in his head in game 2. Good Scheifele is very good but Mediocre Mark is atrocious defensively and just not inspired.

I'd be very proactive with Scheif and make some changes now to get him fired up. No reason he can't at least appear to be a force in a 2C role.

Connor. PLD. Ehlers

Namestnikov. Scheifele. Wheeler

Namestnikov is a left shot and can take the face-offs on his side. He and Wheeler are both playing well and Chef can be the triggerman on that line.

Honestly, I've tried to be my best Sceifele fanboy during the playoffs, but at this point I just want to squeeze as much out of him as possible till the off season. My mind is made up.

 

[Jet]

Yes, he was good in game 1 but was back to looking like he was in his head in game 2. Good Scheifele is very good but Mediocre Mark is atrocious defensively and just not inspired.

I'd be very proactive with Scheif and make some changes now to get him fired up. No reason he can't at least appear to be a force in a 2C role.

Connor. PLD. Ehlers

Namestnikov. Scheifele. Wheeler

Namestnikov is a left shot and can take the face-offs on his side. He and Wheeler are both playing well and Chef can be the triggerman on that line.

Honestly, I've tried to be my best Sceifele fanboy during the playoffs, but at this point I just want to squeeze as much out of him as possible till the off season. My mind is made up.

I'm ready to move on from Mark as well. Moreso because he is going to command a kings ransom in his next contract, and I don't think his one way play warrants that, nor the position in team hierarchy that a salary like that represents.

If we are paying a player 9MM+ they have to be elite at everything they need to do in that position.

 

[surixon]

I'm ready to move on from Mark as well. Moreso because he is going to command a kings ransom in his next contract, and I don't think his one way play warrants that, nor the position in team hierarchy that a salary like that represents.

If we are paying a player 9MM+ they have to be elite at everything they need to do in that position.

This, plus if he can't be trusted to play C long term in Bones schemes then even more reason not to pay northbound $9 million for a one dimensional aging winger.

 

[lablite47]

It's ok this site is good for disagreements, I think you are right more often than you are wrong. But I can't think of any fan base that holds a hostility towards a guy who finished top 10 in goal scoring this year, more than ours...

What if I said that Mark Scheifele has more career goals in one playoff as a Jet than Connor, Ehlers and Dubois have combined over their time here?

I just don't get some of what you and others say about him...

When he complains to the refs it's usually because he is trying so hard and gets screwed. Showing signs he cares...who else had the balls to say that the NHL doesn't want the Jets to win after he got suspended?

Criticism which is often followed up my he doesn't care about the team, but his body language whenever he gets scored on would indicate otherwise. He's a fierce competitor.

He's terrible defensively...can someone post the stats Perfetti-Scheifele-Wheeler had as a line?

I love watching our very first playoff game where young Mark had to matchup against Getzlaf and Kesler in their primes. He wasn't quite there yet, but you could see we had a player.

8 years later and the luster has completely worn off this player.

I understand and I don't understand.

Then is then and now is now.. He's a different and less effective player now. Time to move on before his stock really tumbles.

 

[Channelcat]

I thought 55 was really good in game one and the first period last night.

As he faded, so did the team. I don't know if Schiefele realizes how much of an impact he has on the team - I'm not even sure I put it together until now.

Or, I could just be out to lunch

I kind of wish they would have given someone the C before the playoffs started - I would have said either Lowry or Morrissey

I think you are correct. I think he is the leader in that room. As for his game last night, like you, I thought he was very good in the first and perhaps average in the second, and third. The entire team responded poorly to the Knights pressure. Too many turnovers, too many battles lost (including faceoffs)

 

[johnnyonthspot]

This, plus if he can't be trusted to play C long term in Bones schemes then even more reason not to pay northbound $9 million for a one dimensional aging winger.

It is hard to believe the common opinion is to trade a 42 goal scorer but it is time. The key reason is he does not make players around him better. He is a selfish hockey player and two critical errors by him led to goals last night He( and Pld) got caught out on a long shift on the first goal then he loses the draw and fails to take his man in the third goal.

He is a defensive liability and cannot be trusted at centre, which is sad since it was thought him and PLD as the 1, 2 punch would take this team to new heights.

Verdict: trade him get something in return

 

[surixon]

It is hard to believe the common opinion is to trade a 42 goal scorer but it is time. The key reason is he does not make players around him better. He is a selfish hockey player and two critical errors by him led to goals last night He( and Pld) got caught out on a long shift on the first goal then he loses the draw and fails to take his man in the third goal.

He is a defensive liability and cannot be trusted at centre, which is sad since it was thought him and PLD as the 1, 2 punch would take this team to new heights.

Verdict: trade him get something in return

At this point in his career he's not consistient enough nor accountable enough to be a face of your franchise type.

He has not unlearned so many of the bad habits he's picked up over the years and is not an example for anyone on the team on how to approach playing without the puck.

 

[jiho]

I thought 55 was really good in game one and the first period last night.

As he faded, so did the team. I don't know if Schiefele realizes how much of an impact he has on the team - I'm not even sure I put it together until now.

Or, I could just be out to lunch

I kind of wish they would have given someone the C before the playoffs started - I would have said either Lowry or Morrissey

S_heifele

 

[voyageur]

At this point in his career he's not consistient enough nor accountable enough to be a face of your franchise type.

He has not unlearned so many of the bad habits he's picked up over the years and is not an example for anyone on the team on how to approach playing without the puck.

When he is on he is very good away from the puck. I think Scheifele's one of the best on the team at moving from neutral zone to offensive zone, anticipating plays. But in the defensive zone it's never been strong for him, and if you aren't willing to become a more complete player as you mature, you are right that's not the face of the franchise.

I think there's a lot to be said about Adam Lowry having 3 goals, 2 on the PP after two games, and Scheifele has goose eggs, and -2 in his stat line so far.

If Bones was going to send a message maybe you start Lowry on the PP instead of Scheifele.

 

[surixon]

When he is on he is very good away from the puck. I think Scheifele's one of the best on the team at moving from neutral zone to offensive zone, anticipating plays. But in the defensive zone it's never been strong for him, and if you aren't willing to become a more complete player as you mature, you are right that's not the face of the franchise.

I think there's a lot to be said about Adam Lowry having 3 goals, 2 on the PP after two games, and Scheifele has goose eggs, and -2 in his stat line so far.

If Bones was going to send a message maybe you start Lowry on the PP instead of Scheifele.

Lowry wouldn't fit on the first pp unit as they are looking to do something completely different then what the second unit is. But the Mark back to PP hb role due to Nik being out doesn't work as he doesn't move to create lanes like Ehlers does.

 

[surixon]

It's ok this site is good for disagreements, I think you are right more often than you are wrong. But I can't think of any fan base that holds a hostility towards a guy who finished top 10 in goal scoring this year, more than ours...

What if I said that Mark Scheifele has more career goals in one playoff as a Jet than Connor, Ehlers and Dubois have combined over their time here?

I just don't get some of what you and others say about him...

When he complains to the refs it's usually because he is trying so hard and gets screwed. Showing signs he cares...who else had the balls to say that the NHL doesn't want the Jets to win after he got suspended?

Criticism which is often followed up my he doesn't care about the team, but his body language whenever he gets scored on would indicate otherwise. He's a fierce competitor.

He's terrible defensively...can someone post the stats Perfetti-Scheifele-Wheeler had as a line?

I love watching our very first playoff game where young Mark had to matchup against Getzlaf and Kesler in their primes. He wasn't quite there yet, but you could see we had a player.

8 years later and the luster has completely worn off this player.

I understand and I don't understand.

I don't think you will find many people who didn't think Mark was the face of this franchise back then. He was a true game breaker in the offensive end and busted his butt game in and game out. Something happened to that version of him though and he has been far from that player the last few years.

You wanted the Wheeler/Scheifele/Perfetti stats:

15gf 5 ga
56 CF%
51 XGF%

They were a pretty effective line in which all three read off of each other very well in the ozone and broke teams down in the manner Mark likes, holding pucks until great chances open up.

 

[voyageur]

Lowry wouldn't fit on the first pp unit as they are looking to do something completely different then what the second unit is. But the Mark back to PP hb role due to Nik being out doesn't work as he doesn't move to create lanes like Ehlers does.

What Lowry does is he gets to the middle of the ice, and he gets his stick on shots. Doesn't matter which unit it is, it's the objective to score. And moving big Adam Lowry out of the way is not easy. He is probably the best on the draw, maybe he starts there, & you have 3 guys who can move the puck quickly, Morrissey as the trigger.

Adam Lowry steps up in the playoffs, maybe he's the next captain of this team. I was just thinking that one way to get a player motivated is to take away the star time, as Scheifele has taken away ice time from his teammates...It's a pretty clear message.

 

[surixon]

What Lowry does is he gets to the middle of the ice, and he gets his stick on shots. Doesn't matter which unit it is, it's the objective to score. And moving big Adam Lowry out of the way is not easy. He is probably the best on the draw, maybe he starts there, & you have 3 guys who can move the puck quickly, Morrissey as the trigger.

Adam Lowry steps up in the playoffs, maybe he's the next captain of this team. I was just thinking that one way to get a player motivated is to take away the star time, as Scheifele has taken away ice time from his teammates...It's a pretty clear message.

Sure but the top unit doesn't use the point shot/tip setup very often which renders Lowry's role as less effecrive on that unit. Whereas the second unit uses the point/double layer tip play almost exclusively. Leave him on the unit where he's more likely to continue to make an impact.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Jets faded when Scheif started taking more draws... he is just not an elite C