Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

[gojetsgo]

Superline - well depends if Scheif decides to actually show up, or if he continues to float around like an entitled brat because the coach wants him to actually do something for the team and for his $6M.

kfc and pld also need to show up not just scheifele

 

[SLAYER]

lmao @ people who use the term "quite quitting" unironically, what a joke

 

[Guffman]

 

[RestlessYoungZero]

From top of the conference to this, wth happened, put him in the press box.

I'm not very happy with Sheifele's attitude the back half of the season either but this is a brutally written article that is poaching quotes out of context. Bones didn't roll his eyes at the quote the author implied here, it was at Mark wanting to hold onto the puck and create plays vs getting as many shots as possible.

edit: wrong quote, but meant this article: Jets' Scheifele Has Quietly Quit on His Team; Trade Request Coming?

 

[10Ducky10]

a better move would be dropping wheeler out of the top 6 instead of nino/ehlers

I agree but he's probably there because that line did well in the past.

 

[cbcwpg]

This is the second season ending in a row that the most talked about item... is Mark Sheifele. Time for that conversation to end and move it on to some other team. Let him become someone else's problem.

 

[Zippity]

This is the second season ending in a row that the most talked about item... is Mark Sheifele. Time for that conversation to end and move it on to some other team. Let him become someone else's problem.

But does another team want to trade off their top line center

 

[tbcwpg]

But does another team want to trade off their top line center

A team interested in Scheifele wouldn't be trading their top line centre even if Scheifele was a model citizen. That's not how NHL trades work.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Scheif to Detroit

Kasper, both Detroit 1sts or 1 and Edvinsson

 

[tbcwpg]

Scheif to Detroit

Kasper, both Detroit 1sts or 1 and Edvinsson

Detroit won't move Edvinsson but I'd go after Kasper definitely.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Trading 55 is one of those addition by subtraction deals to me. Take a half-assed decent offer, Chevy and...

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Just a guess on my part, but IMO I think that what appeared to be buy in the first half of the season by Chef, was being able to play the way he wanted to because Bowness was concentrating on the defense first. And then half way thru the season, the forwards were asked to play the way Bones wants , which is not the way Chef wants... hence the massive drop off in Chef's game.

That is the best explanation I have seen - but what a BONEheaded mistake if true. And what a BONEheaded mistake to not then recognize the result and switch back.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

(not directed at you but generally speaking based of your observation):

If true then why’s everyone so mad at 55

I saw his post game comments. Reading Reddit and other places you’d think he’s a toxic person who needs to go asap. I saw someone who’s game has gone cold, searching for answers and gave an opinion on what works for him. I didn’t see a guy who oozed toxicity.

My thoughts were someone somewhere slandered his name on some message board and frustrated fans have taken to this narrative and fed into it with each mounting loss

Plus If that’s how he was playing when we were winning, well maybe he’s right and Bones is wrong. Some have commented that we’ve moved away from what worked. Is that not on coaching then? We were a top team in the west at that time.

Sure 55 is not playing the way we’ve seen in the past but he admitted as much post game that his job is to score and he’s not been successful in that job

I am as upset with the team’s performance as anyone but there is a developing message board and twitter narrative which is turning into a slanderous pot of shitty gossip. I’m sure It’s out of frustration, sure, but yeesh people making things up out of thin air left right and centre. Who knows what’s going on behind closed doors. This doesn’t sound like a group has that quit on each other. It sounds like a group that knows they’ve slipped out of the race, continue to slip away, has no idea why and no answers as to why but is trying to stay positive in the room and lean on one another

If we go on a 5 game win streak at home (not holding my breath) does this narrative on 55 suddenly change? Or is he still a bundle of “toxic drama” that needs to be catapulted from the dressing room?

Well said.
The echo chamber is getting out of control.

 

[ERYX]

(not directed at you but generally speaking based of your observation):

If true then why’s everyone so mad at 55

I saw his post game comments. Reading Reddit and other places you’d think he’s a toxic person who needs to go asap. I saw someone who’s game has gone cold, searching for answers and gave an opinion on what works for him. I didn’t see a guy who oozed toxicity.

My thoughts were someone somewhere slandered his name on some message board and frustrated fans have taken to this narrative and fed into it with each mounting loss

Plus If that’s how he was playing when we were winning, well maybe he’s right and Bones is wrong. Some have commented that we’ve moved away from what worked. Is that not on coaching then? We were a top team in the west at that time.

Sure 55 is not playing the way we’ve seen in the past but he admitted as much post game that his job is to score and he’s not been successful in that job

I am as upset with the team’s performance as anyone but there is a developing message board and twitter narrative which is turning into a slanderous pot of shitty gossip. I’m sure It’s out of frustration, sure, but yeesh people making things up out of thin air left right and centre. Who knows what’s going on behind closed doors. This doesn’t sound like a group has that quit on each other. It sounds like a group that knows they’ve slipped out of the race, continue to slip away, has no idea why and no answers as to why but is trying to stay positive in the room and lean on one another

If we go on a 5 game win streak at home (not holding my breath) does this narrative on 55 suddenly change? Or is he still a bundle of “toxic drama” that needs to be catapulted from the dressing room?

While I think it's true that the nature of the internet and social media can amplify things unfairly, and people are frustrated, on the other hand I don't think it's fair to say that people are outright lying (which is what slander is) or that there's zero evidence of Scheif having some attitude issues.

The press conference comments you speak of were not uttered in a vacuum, they come after games where Scheifele is lazily coasting back to the bench at the end of a shift, where he 1/4 assing it on defensive plays with half-hearted swipes of his stick. That's not how he was playing while we were winning as far as I can recall, and I don't think it's some tinfoil hat conspiracy theory to say that Bones didn't tell him to do that.

The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle, but when Bones is making comments to the media like "If some of these guys think they're giving everything in their tank, they're dreaming. We've got a lot of guys in there giving us everything they can, and we just need a few more guys to jump on board" people see Scheif's on-ice body language and put 2+2 together. So I don't think that's malicious slander (knowingly spreading things that you KNOW are untrue).

Just a guess on my part, but IMO I think that what appeared to be buy in the first half of the season by Chef, was being able to play the way he wanted to because Bowness was concentrating on the defense first. And then half way thru the season, the forwards were asked to play the way Bones wants , which is not the way Chef wants... hence the massive drop off in Chef's game.

Granted I don't watch every single game the way many here do ... but aside from the visible lack of effort and enjoyment, is Scheif actually playing different since January as in a different style, different strategies being employed?

 

[TommyKillian]

Some interesting numbers in Dom's article last night about Scheifele. In the last 8 games (stretching back to the Carolina game he was benched in) the team has been outscored 10-1 with Scheifele on the ice. He has just a single secondary assist and is the worst skater by Game Score during that stretch on the team. Connor is second worst.

While I think some of the criticism of him is over the top, this is a remarkably low level of play from an elite centremen during the most important part of the season. I'm trying not to draw too many conclusions but yeesh... that's terrible.

 

[cbcwpg]

Granted I don't watch every single game the way many here do ... but aside from the visible lack of effort and enjoyment, is Scheif actually playing different since January as in a different style, different strategies being employed?

I would say that , while not the best or ever greatest at it, his defensive effort in the first half of the season was way better than what we are seeing lately. When you are trying to take the puck off someone weighing over 200 lbs. trying to do this by just using your stick and with just one hand on the stick isn't going to accomplish anything... and that's the kind of checking we are getting from Chef.

 

[tbcwpg]

Some interesting numbers in Dom's article last night about Scheifele. In the last 8 games (stretching back to the Carolina game he was benched in) the team has been outscored 10-1 with Scheifele on the ice. He has just a single secondary assist and is the worst skater by Game Score during that stretch on the team. Connor is second worst.

While I think some of the criticism of him is over the top, this is a remarkably low level of play from an elite centremen during the most important part of the season. I'm trying not to draw too many conclusions but yeesh... that's terrible.

You cut out the part about that being a lot of randomness/chance because the underlying numbers say it's 5 xGF vs 5xGA while the actual result is 10-1, but yeah, he's been bad.

 

[Cypruss]

I would say that , while not the best or ever greatest at it, his defensive effort in the first half of the season was way better than what we are seeing lately. When you are trying to take the puck off someone weighing over 200 lbs. trying to do this by just using your stick and with just one hand on the stick isn't going to accomplish anything... and that's the kind of checking we are getting from Chef.

Guess we can blame it on the inflation factor that we are all dealing with?

$6,125,000 sure doesnt buy what it used to.....

 

[TommyKillian]

You cut out the part about that being a lot of randomness/chance because the underlying numbers say it's 5 xGF vs 5xGA while the actual result is 10-1, but yeah, he's been bad.

I think team worst Game Score is the most damning thing. There is no way a player of Mark's calibre should provide the least value on the team even if his possession numbers are mediocre instead of terrible (though I should have included the xGF numbers). That 10-1 disadvantage is crazy no matter which way you cut it.

It's extra frustrating because he is so fun to watch when he's buzzing.

 

[jgimp]

Scheif to Detroit

Kasper, both Detroit 1sts or 1 and Edvinsson

Lmao

 

[BoneDocUK]

I think team worst Game Score is the most damning thing. There is no way a player of Mark's calibre should provide the least value on the team even if his possession numbers are mediocre instead of terrible (though I should have included the xGF numbers). That 10-1 disadvantage is crazy no matter which way you cut it.

It's extra frustrating because he is so fun to watch when he's buzzing.

Absolutely.

We have players and whole lines with high work rates and far less talent. Most fans understand that such players have a ceiling and are regularly bumping up against it, and don't hold their relative inability to create at an elite rate against them.

But 55 can create and score at elite rates, often without breaking a sweat. And his size, skating and vision mean he can play D at a competent, break-even level that can make him a net positive.

His play of late isn't about skill or understanding of a coaching system. It seems to be about a lack of investment in that system and the rest of the team playing it honestly.

That's where the frustration lies with me.

If you can do it, then do it.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Absolutely.

We have players and whole lines with high work rates and far less talent. Most fans understand that such players have a ceiling and are regularly bumping up against it, and don't hold their relative inability to create at an elite rate against them.

But 55 can create and score at elite rates, often without breaking a sweat. And his size, skating and vision mean he can play D at a competent, break-even level that can make him a net positive.

His play of late isn't about skill or understanding of a coaching system. It seems to be about a lack of investment in that system and the rest of the team playing it honestly.

That's where the frustration lies with me.

If you can do it, then do it.

Look at his numbers from the first half of the season... he was on a career year... he has mediocre stats now only because of that.

 

[surixon]

Absolutely.

We have players and whole lines with high work rates and far less talent. Most fans understand that such players have a ceiling and are regularly bumping up against it, and don't hold their relative inability to create at an elite rate against them.

But 55 can create and score at elite rates, often without breaking a sweat. And his size, skating and vision mean he can play D at a competent, break-even level that can make him a net positive.

His play of late isn't about skill or understanding of a coaching system. It seems to be about a lack of investment in that system and the rest of the team playing it honestly.

That's where the frustration lies with me.

If you can do it, then do it.

Thought sportsnet had an interesting article on coaching/player dynamics:

Rick Bowness, Paul Maurice and managing your relationship with the head coach

It's not the end of the world when a coach blows up on the bench and has an interaction with his players that doesn't look great on camera. But in the pro game, it's an important element to manage, writes Justin Bourne.

www.sportsnet.ca

Seems to indicate the power dynamic. Scheifele in this case has some power as a top player and Bones likely has been trying to walk that line.

I think some of the issues are due to certain players wanting certain roles and using theit pull to get them. I.e Scheifele as the pp hb, Dubois not wanting to be in the bumper.

Explains coaches have whipping boys, looks like that is Ehlers for us. Two coaches in a row now.

Seems like coaching these days is making sure your stars are on board first and foremost.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

The Scheif interview is only provocative because of his on ice play. Anyone who has watched him play over his career can see that he has taken his foot off the gas since he was 'benched' (not really just lost a couple of shifts) in the Carolina game. His performance since then is a joke for a supposed 1st line C. A joke. So of course questions of character come into play. Because of his on ice play. If he is getting his job done (which he isn't at either end of the ice right now) no one would give a flying fak about those words he used in the interview. Stop sulking and get dirty, get greasy, get gritty, and that will get you some shots on goal. Get your ass back in our own end when the puck goes the other way, and get to the bench fast when you are going for a change. I think it was his first shift of the 3rd period in the SJS game, he was floating around as soft as butter in our own end with separate weak ass turnovers to Hurtl (led to scoring chance) and then Gregor (I think it was Gregor) that led directly to their second goal basically sealing the victory. You can't watch it and think that he is actually even trying there. Wake up and give a shit please. Tonight would be a good time to start. Thanks, Mark.

 

[winnipegger]

The Jets are only a good team if Scheifele is scoring and Helle is elite. The lack of goals has been....disturbing. I'll reserve judgement until the playoffs are over but it's not looking good.