a player deliberately showing low to no effort for years on end, as some sort of retaliation to the coach when there are other players on this team putting an honest work in should not be getting a pass. a few games ok, perhaps. we all have bad days. we are talking 4 years. if scheifele was as committed to winning as he says, poor system or not, effort/accountability/ etc shouldn't even be a question.
Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion
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I didn't give Mark a pass. He has to show up to camp and work his ass off both ways to win me back over.
He’ll be playing his ass off, don’t worry. He’s close to his next and possibly last contract.
nobody imp0rtant
Registered pessimist
- May 23, 2018
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Just what I was thinking. It will take more than some 200' dedication this year to win me back over. I figure 4 years are owed in back taxes. But honestly, I hope this is all just big talk and we see the same ScheifMe when push comes to shove. And at the end of the year, the team is looking at expulsion not extension.
perhaps i misinterpreted but in the initial post you said "i dont blame players for losing faith in our systems..." and then talked about his low effort for years. that to me is giving him a pass.
do you think demelo, ehlers, copp, lowry, stastny, morrissey, etc are all gung-ho about our system? would any of those you categorize as low effort players? these guys getting paid millions, and scheifele is looked as a leader, losing faith or not, even high-effort probably leads to a better player on the defensive end.
anyway yes we'll see how he plays this year. this team needs scheifele of '16-'18 to go anywhere. maybe Bowness can extract that from him, not sure.
Potrzebie
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- Mar 25, 2010
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So you're hoping our #1 center plays poorly this year?
To each their own, I guess.
It's human nature that things get stale if nothing changes. I don't blame players for loosing faith in Maurice and his schemes. I do blame players for how they conduct themselves on and off the ice. As you mentioned I'm sure many players lost faith in Moe but still came to work every day and put in the effort. Mark elected to just half ass it and that is on him and no one else.
- Dec 29, 2016
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It looked to me like Mo was simply holding down the fort - there were other issues with this team stemming from other causes, it wasn't all coaching (although that is by far, the easier guy to blame for everything).
If you want to believe the coach was letting these guys play at their leisure because they didn't need to be coached - and then quits because they need a new "voice", you could maybe consider some other issues that might be impacting a players drive.
This team has been pampered for years - and the pampering appears to be "Org" driven and not necessarily coach driven.
Consider how the stars are treated and then consider why they might be getting away with pretty much anything on this team. Could it be that this org is very concerned with keeping top talent? Could it be that they give these guys a lot more rope than other teams due to all the things that have been discussed lately (market, city, weather, etc).
IMO, this org not only allowed Mo to pamper these guys (including limited accountability), but he was likely asked to do exactly that.
At least consider other options
You don't know what these guys were losing faith in - maybe it was certain players, maybe they didn't like being pushed, maybe they considered the Jets lucky to have them, maybe the org let this get away from them, and maybe MO bailed because he knew that.
I don't think Moe is the only issue and have said as much many times. I think the foundation principle around loyalty is another issue that has had an impact. I also agree that the org was likely gun shy about loosing certain players that they possibly went too far in terms of pampering them. They likely didn't want to ruffle feathers if they were too hard on them and have them demand out or not reup. Absolutely players lost faith in other players, you wouldn't have gotten all the verbiage about accountability, culture and respect at the end of the year if they hadn't.
We are still a young org with a management staff that didn't have a lot of NHL experience. My guess is the org has learned many valuable lessons over the years, especially the last few.
On the topic of managing elite players, it would be truly fascinating to see the day to day interactions with the stars and how the coaching and management manages all the egos. I think this org does have to walk a fine on that due to our location and market but I think at the end of the day the truly elite players that want to win want accountability from their coaches and they expect it from their teammates. You can have a first rate org that treats the players with respect but still demand excellence from them and holds them accountable. I think the org has been slow to adopt the later. The good news is that it seems the younger group of leaders wants that built in accountability and it seems that is what Bowness and the org will try to build.
Hopefully we get a Mark that is ready to buy in. He spent a good chunk of his summer skating with some of the most vocal guys about culture and putting the team first. Let's hope they had conversations with him and he's ready to be a good teammate again.
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Maurice was here too long and got too buddy, buddy with Scheifele and Wheeler, how else do you explain the constant extra minutes those 2 got even if they weren't playing well . I am very much looking forward to this season to see how Bowness distributes ice times.
Who would you have given those extra minutes to? I guess playing Toninato 20 minutes a night would’ve sent a message….
Blake is a great man! You Winnipeg schmucks need to recognise you are lucky to be in his presence.
- Mar 10, 2010
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I remember listening to Bruce Boudreau on NHL Network when he was between gigs and he was saying as a head coach you need to have buy in from your leaders. The moment you lose them you can start packing your bags. Paul Maurice is NHL coach who has had spectacular “hang time” in markets despite average results. The main reason is he must know how to play the internal power game brilliantly.
Last year Paul lost Mark IMO. I have my theory but that was then this is now and I don’t give a shit about the lost season anymore.
Rick is a solid person and I expect him to figure it out. Hopefully we will be seeing a reengaged 55 (fingers crossed).
Last year Paul lost Mark IMO. I have my theory but that was then this is now and I don’t give a shit about the lost season anymore.
Rick is a solid person and I expect him to figure it out. Hopefully we will be seeing a reengaged 55 (fingers crossed).
How about Connor , Ehlers , or any player that was busting his ass on that given day and playing well. I'm willing to bet that if Scheifele and Wheeler got just a little less time they might have had more energy and played even better. Why go to Toninato playing 20 minutes right away, how about Svetch getting more than 4 minutes when Dubois, Connor and Svetch were playing pretty good together as a example instead.
the alternative to wheeler or scheifele getting 20+ minutes is giving Toninato 20. what an insightful f***ing comment and suggestion.
The Jets forward depth was horrible. It’s easy to say cut Scheifele’s minutes, which sounds easy but not as easy when you realize that it means elevating 4th liners or worse…
re-read what you said. the alternative to giving wheeler or scheifele getting 20 mins is to give toninato 20 mins. you think this is a viable strategy or action?
kanadalainen
A pint of dark matter, please.
I hope that RB actually gives the kids some ice time (Perfetti, Heinola).
BobTheSolarsystem
Registered User
- Oct 4, 2020
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Trouble is that points equal money... and a 200' game does not...
cbcwpg
Registered User
‘The team means so much to me’: Scheifele says he’s proud to be a Winnipeg Jet - Winnipeg | Globalnews.ca
Missing the playoffs, Mark Scheifele said, was a frustrating close to a season that he -- and his Winnipeg Jets teammates -- expected to be far more successful.
globalnews.ca
‘The team means so much to me’: Scheifele says he’s proud to be a Winnipeg Jet - Winnipeg | Globalnews.ca
Missing the playoffs, Mark Scheifele said, was a frustrating close to a season that he -- and his Winnipeg Jets teammates -- expected to be far more successful.
Playing better, and a concerted 200 ft effort like others on this team over the past 4 years shows that you want to win.
This meme continues. I do believe it Maurice made utilization errors with these players and didn't hold 55 accountable, but this buddy buddy Co coaching narrative is and has always been silly.
As a matter of fact, some of the stuff coming out more recently suggests there may have been a rift between Mo and Schiefele.
What is more likely is that statistically, those 2 players had been our best performers and Maurice overused them.
The problem is, is very hard to analyze your own game. Players can have an incorrect idea of what they need to do to contribute to the teams success. That's where coaching has to come in.
Playing better, and a concerted 200 ft effort like others on this team over the past 4 years shows that you want to win.
This one is on Maurice in my mind. Of course, we really don't know what conversations were being had, but it was pretty clear that there was a lack of accountability for veteran players.
Yeah it's pretty clear based on what Mark has said lately that he didn't feel the communication was good the past bit so clearly there was some kind of falling out.
It seems that Moe really only had Wheeler solidly in his corner by the end.
I also agree with you on the part where coaches need to make players aware of short comings in their play. Everyone has individual blind spots and it's up to coaches to find areas that need improvements and properly communicate the what and why to the player. Bowness was talking about just that in one of his recent podcast appearances. So to me it sounds like our coaching is ready to teach and communicate with the players.
nobody imp0rtant
Registered pessimist
- May 23, 2018
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And nowhere is that communication skill better displayed than in this video. Notice how RB stays calm and collected, precisely delineating the steps needed for the players to turn around their play during the game. A teacher, a strategist, a motivator. I'm sure 55 will welcome such guidance over the course of the season.
