Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

[Mortimer Snerd]

I have played in beer leagues where I know players do not recognize their flaws but at the NHL level? I am curious how Maurice/Lowry have handled him. Would they not have to clearly identified Scheifele's lack of defensive play in team meetings or individual player meetings? I can not imagine the coaches have just ignored this.

I didn't say the coaches don't recognize them. I said Scheifele does not. It is pretty plain to see that he is not trying to correct them. The flaws have existed for years and appear to be getting worse, not better.

 

[cbcwpg]

I have played in beer leagues where I know players do not recognize their flaws but at the NHL level? I am curious how Maurice/Lowry have handled him. Would they not have to clearly identified Scheifele's lack of defensive play in team meetings or individual player meetings? I can not imagine the coaches have just ignored this.

Sounds like PoMo was ignoring it for years for certain players. He went on record stating there were players on the team he didn't coach.

 

[surixon]

Sounds like PoMo was ignoring it for years for certain players. He went on record stating there were players on the team he didn't coach.

You don't even need to take him at his word either as it's fairly obvious watching a good many of these guys individual games.

 

[surixon]

Well, that next contract is another issue. I don't think he is yet at an age where he needs to adapt to the effects of aging.

He has developed serious flaws in his game. He needs to correct them. I don't expect him to. I don't think he recognizes them.

That is where coaching comes into play. He has a team of specialists as well. This is where you need a strong head coach that isn't interested coddling the players to point them out and work with the player on fixing them. This is also where his skill coach in Oats should be pointing this stuff out to him in their shift by shift meetings they have.

 

[johnnyonthspot]

That is where coaching comes into play. He has a team of specialists as well. This is where you need a strong head coach that isn't interested coddling the players to point them out and work with the player on fixing them. This is also where his skill coach in Oats should be pointing this stuff out to him in their shift by shift meetings they have.

I still have a hard time believing that Selfishlele has a private skills coach however, it could explain why he does not listen to the coach. Does anyone know how many other Jets have a personal skills coach.
I was watching him yesterday an he seemed lost out there as if he was not part of the team.

 

[surixon]

I still have a hard time believing that Selfishlele has a private skills coach however, it could explain why he does not listen to the coach. Does anyone know how many other Jets have a personal skills coach.
I was watching him yesterday an he seemed lost out there as if he was not part of the team.

I think most players do now. Copp, JoMo, and Wheeler work with Oates. Perfetti has one as well but not sure who.

Most of the games best like Kucherov also work with Oates so it's not an Oates only issue. It seems more a Mark issue.

 

[DRW204]

I still have a hard time believing that Selfishlele has a private skills coach however, it could explain why he does not listen to the coach. Does anyone know how many other Jets have a personal skills coach.
I was watching him yesterday an he seemed lost out there as if he was not part of the team.

ROR, Copp, Eichel, R. Strome, Toews a bunch of players have all used Oates. Toews and ROR are notable Selke guys. I highly doubt Oates is telling Scheifele to not give a shit about Defense. imo Scheifele has the skills to be a solid 2-way player, however it seems like he lacks the desire/motivation/hustle.

 

[johnnyonthspot]

I think most players do now. Copp, JoMo, and Wheeler work with Oates. Perfetti has one as well but not sure who.

Most of the games best like Kucherov also work with Oates so it's not an Oates only issue. It seems more a Mark issue.

Thanks for that info. I had no clue but with the money these guys make I guess using a 'specialist' can be the difference between making 3million or 6 million.

 

[johnnyonthspot]

ROR, Copp, Eichel, R. Strome, Toews a bunch of players have all used Oates. Toews and ROR are notable Selke guys. I highly doubt Oates is telling Scheifele to not give a shit about Defense. imo Scheifele has the skills to be a solid 2-way player, however it seems like he lacks the desire/motivation/hustle.

I do not think Oates would be telling him that and most offensively gifted layers are not selke candidates however, he is an absolute disaster this year and maybe he just has no respect for the jets coaching staff or his teammates

 

[GumbyCan2]

The problem

The problem is that Scheifele hasn't always been this version of a player. He was a very good and more complete player 16-18. If you can get something akin to that player then it makes sense to keep him.

He's really only had one coach his whole career. I'd atleast like to see what a new coach can do either him.

With newer, younger wingers who will push him to be at his best, lest he be "passed up". The old 55/26 combo is deflated and tiresome to overall team outcome, when continually allowed too much icetime, especially when not going that night, missing something and not giving full efforts from center ice back into our zone.

 

[thai jet]

Is there a coach out there that can turn him around like Scotty did with Stevie Y. or Trotz with Ovie? If not he should be sent packing ASAP because he is dragging the whole team down

 

[GumbyCan2]

I still have a hard time believing that Selfishlele has a private skills coach however, it could explain why he does not listen to the coach. Does anyone know how many other Jets have a personal skills coach.
I was watching him yesterday an he seemed lost out there as if he was not part of the team.

Helleboy does too, but can't blame him. Look at who his "team goalie coach" is. And the "over-done, over-cooked" defense coach!

 

[cbcwpg]

I know, I know... +/- is not a great stat , but still...

The Jets supposed #1 center is at -21

The top center on Calgary is at +43

 

[bennylundholm]

You've gotta think Darryl Sutter would tune 55 in with his lacklustre play.

 

[DRW204]

I know, I know... +/- is not a great stat , but still...

The Jets supposed #1 center is at -21

The top center on Calgary is at +43

Lindholm is really good, and rates pretty well defensively. On top of that their goaltender has been otherworldly compared to ours.

 

[cbcwpg]

From 2015:

“That’s obviously a goal of mine … to be a top scorer in the league,” Scheifele said. “I want to continue to improve that. Looking back at last year, there were so many posts and missed chances but I can’t dwell on the fact that I could have had 60 points last year. This year I want to improve from 49 and maybe be a 60-point guy or a 65-point guy. If you are playing good hockey, you’re going to produce. That’s the biggest thing. It’s not about focusing on the points, it's about playing a solid two-way game. If you’re playing the right way, you’re going to get points and the team is going to be better for it.”

***

So where did this player go?

 

[surixon]

From 2015:

“That’s obviously a goal of mine … to be a top scorer in the league,” Scheifele said. “I want to continue to improve that. Looking back at last year, there were so many posts and missed chances but I can’t dwell on the fact that I could have had 60 points last year. This year I want to improve from 49 and maybe be a 60-point guy or a 65-point guy. If you are playing good hockey, you’re going to produce. That’s the biggest thing. It’s not about focusing on the points, it's about playing a solid two-way game. If you’re playing the right way, you’re going to get points and the team is going to be better for it.”

***

So where did this player go?

That is the million dollar question that I'm sure the org wishes they had an answer for.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

That is the million dollar question that I'm sure the org wishes they had an answer for.

The first step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one. I'm not convinced the Jets have reached that point yet.

 

[surixon]

The first step in solving any problem is recognizing there is one. I'm not convinced the Jets have reached that point yet.

I don't know about that. You could tell Chevy was not happy with his play at the mid season press conference.

 

[FFHockey]

Scheif would have benefitted from some coaching over the last ~5 years. Could have remained a two way player. Unfortunately, Maurice. Now his bad habits are pretty baked in to what you get. A new environment (team) where the expectations are made clear to him from day 1, might be what is needed for him to get back to the more balanced player that he once was. I don't see that happening in the Peg, unless Chevy brings a demanding new coach in the off season who is willing to break eggs in the Jets dressing room.

Coaching other than Adam Oates would be a start…

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I don't know about that. You could tell Chevy was not happy with his play at the mid season press conference.

You mean these comments? Source: https://thehockeywriters.com/winnip...-media-availability-highlights-february-2022/

Regarding Scheifele, who has often been disengaged and played poorly defensively, Cheveldayoff said “if you probably asked him he’s probably not overly happy with where things are at from his standpoint, here right now.”
But Cheveldayoff noted he’s “an elite player” and he has never “questioned his commitment to the organization now or certainly into the future from the day he signed his contract with us.”

Now, I'm not expecting Chevy to go all Jim Lites on the guy, but that's too toned down for my liking. If he really believes ScheifMe is an elite player, we are in for a world of pain for years to come. I'm afraid Chevy is too tied into Mark being his first ever draft pick and the face of the franchise. We need a ruthless GM with no previous ties. Now, I know a lot of people wouldn't be in favour of this but I would quiver with delight to hear...

Stan Bowman... Come on down! You are the next contestant on The Jets Aren't Alright!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

That is where coaching comes into play. He has a team of specialists as well. This is where you need a strong head coach that isn't interested coddling the players to point them out and work with the player on fixing them. This is also where his skill coach in Oats should be pointing this stuff out to him in their shift by shift meetings they have.

You are talking possibility here. Of course it is possible. But I don't think it is usual. Should he improve? Certainly. Is he likely to? No.

 

[10Ducky10]

Stan Bowman... Come on down! You are the next contestant on The Jets Aren't Alright!

I'd rather have Q.

 

[surixon]

You are talking possibility here. Of course it is possible. But I don't think it is usual. Should he improve? Certainly. Is he likely to? No.

Who really knows, he's had one coach who let his game deteriate over a number of years. You don't seem to think a new coaching staff can get him back to playing engaged hockey whereas I am more optimistic on that front. We really are just going around in circles on this particular item. It is certainly possible his game continues to be this one dimensional no matter who coaches him here but I think of you are management you need to be damn sure he's a lot cause before moving him.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Who really knows, he's had one coach who let his game deteriate over a number of years. You don't seem to think a new coaching staff can get him back to playing engaged hockey whereas I am more optimistic on that front. We really are just going around in circles on this particular item. It is certainly possible his game continues to be this one dimensional no matter who coaches him here but I think of you are management you need to be damn sure he's a lot cause before moving him.

No - I do think a new coaching staff could get him playing much better. I'm not optimistic it will.

As with all trade discussions, it would depend on the return. I would not dump him at fire sale prices. I would rather bet on the new coach than settle for that.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the shock of being traded got him going in the right direction. A new team AND a new coach might be just what he needs.

Heard another snippet of Jets talk on SXM yesterday. Said that the discrepancy between Jets potential and performance says that there must be something wrong. Noted that Maurice quit because he couldn't get them to play the way he wanted. That is the way they put it.