UFO
Registered User
It is utterly frustrating seeing such a talented player behave like this. If I were his teammate I would kick his ass in the locker room. He used to be my fav player, but nowadays he is just someone with no class and heart.
Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion
- Thread starter Hunter368
- Start date
Highway1
Registered User
- Jan 9, 2017
- 1,112
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It’s frustrating watching Mark play right now and his defensive game is horrible, but he is still putting up points. My fear is we trade him and another coach turns him around to the player he used to be. I would like our new coach be that guy and turn his attitude around before we trade him.
Last edited:
Mbraunm
Registered User
- Oct 19, 2016
- 2,086
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There was a thread on the main boards a few weeks ago debating the worst defensive centre in the league. Scheiffele was in the top (or bottom) of the discussion. He is absolutely horrible to watch in the defensive end. The sad thing is that this has been happening for over 3 years now without seemingly being addressed by coaching
- Mar 10, 2010
- 35,557
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It’s good to get some balance in this thread so kudos for fighting the good fight.
My opinion is there will be some major changes in this off season. I think we can start with the coaching staff and it might end up with a leadership shake up on the team too. If that is the case then Mark will be traded IMO. They might try to give this core one more shot but that seems less likely to me now. Calgary moved on from Gio and the team rebounded under Sutter this season when they were written off for dead last off season so never say never but something seems rotten in Winnipeg.
Hunter368
RIP lomiller1, see you in the next life buddy.
- Nov 8, 2011
- 27,403
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That’s the main problem, coaching.
I'm barely able to shift my eyelids this morning after a... spirited... time at last night's game, but our seats were dead-on centre ice just a few rows back. I could have reached out and patted Shutup Sawyer's head from where we were sitting, and I had an interesting close-up view of the game that I usually can't afford.
I've watched 55 the past few years, but one of my mates who isn't a Jets fan was genuinely shocked by the casual way he plays nowadays -- at least in that game. His movement off the puck is minimal, he's often static, and he shies away from even minor contact. Coasts to the bench, ambles over the boards, passes up opportunities to extend himself into the play for whole shifts at a time.
Given the outrage that greeted PLD's infamous "trade me!" shift for CBJ last season, I'm actually surprised that more hasn't been made of this stretch of play by 55 -- my bet is that a shift-by-shift would show him at full throttle around 20% or less of the time. It is unbelievable and unforgivable that he is allowed to put in that level of effort and commitment without penalty while prospects and bottom-sixers get benched or Moose'd for the odd mistake or failures of talent or skill. Say what you will about players like DomTon, Harkins, Ves, etc., but those guys have not taken one second of one shift off all year, and they're getting peanuts compared to 55's "bargain" 6.1 mill.
We did see some reactions from teammates, but they were really just "C'mon, c'mon!" as he glided to the bench. At one point Apple or Sanford had to sit there with a leg over just waiting for him to dock, and he was getting plenty of heckle from the bleachers, as he did when he fell over trying to pivot out of a check on the left-hand boards.
Not long after that PLD blew into and literally dragged for around 40 feet a defender on the right boards before finally throwing him off and getting a decent scoring chance out of it. Skill, and sheer brute force willpower, and the crowd were on their feet for a bit giving him a hand.
As my mate said of Sheifele: "What the hell happened to that guy? I remember when he was a player."
I've watched 55 the past few years, but one of my mates who isn't a Jets fan was genuinely shocked by the casual way he plays nowadays -- at least in that game. His movement off the puck is minimal, he's often static, and he shies away from even minor contact. Coasts to the bench, ambles over the boards, passes up opportunities to extend himself into the play for whole shifts at a time.
Given the outrage that greeted PLD's infamous "trade me!" shift for CBJ last season, I'm actually surprised that more hasn't been made of this stretch of play by 55 -- my bet is that a shift-by-shift would show him at full throttle around 20% or less of the time. It is unbelievable and unforgivable that he is allowed to put in that level of effort and commitment without penalty while prospects and bottom-sixers get benched or Moose'd for the odd mistake or failures of talent or skill. Say what you will about players like DomTon, Harkins, Ves, etc., but those guys have not taken one second of one shift off all year, and they're getting peanuts compared to 55's "bargain" 6.1 mill.
We did see some reactions from teammates, but they were really just "C'mon, c'mon!" as he glided to the bench. At one point Apple or Sanford had to sit there with a leg over just waiting for him to dock, and he was getting plenty of heckle from the bleachers, as he did when he fell over trying to pivot out of a check on the left-hand boards.
Not long after that PLD blew into and literally dragged for around 40 feet a defender on the right boards before finally throwing him off and getting a decent scoring chance out of it. Skill, and sheer brute force willpower, and the crowd were on their feet for a bit giving him a hand.
As my mate said of Sheifele: "What the hell happened to that guy? I remember when he was a player."
- Mar 10, 2010
- 35,557
- 33,905
There are rumblings this is an uncoachable group or at least that is a question being asked.
cbcwpg
Registered User
I can't say specifically what's happening, but here is an interesting stat that matches the 3 years you mention...
Number of hits:
2013-14 : 63
2014-15 : 98
2015-16 : 53
2016-17 : 49
2017-18 : 57
2018-19 : 54
2019-20 : 34
2020-21 : 31
2021-22 : 33
He just seems to have been more physically involved in his play before the last 3 seasons. For comparison, Connor, who we all know isn't a physical player, has 30 hits this season.
While I think there is some of that foresure I think there is a nother issue. We also may not have the right coach and philosophy for this group. I'm so sick of hearing every coach we have blab about straight lines and simplistic old school hockey tactics. Maybe there is push back from the skilled players because that style doesn't work for them and this group. When you look at our forwards do we want chip and chase straight line hickey?
Nik - Hell no, he is at his best using his speed and change of directions and gears to create space.
Perfetti - Also no, he is all about misdirection, changing angles and working with space no matter where it can be found.
Conner and Scheifele both play well in and out of space in the offensive end to create chances.
Add in dmen like Heinola and JoMo who like to activate and switch into the play in the ozone and its even more apparent we run the wrong things.
So instead of expecting to coach this group to play like a bunch of Lowry's perhaps the org needs to accurately view what they have and bring in a coach that can accurately assess how this forward group can have success and implement something appropriately. I imagine you get more buy in when players believe in what they are being preached instead of being asked to play boring bad tactic hockey.
If a coach with an accurate plan can't go the players going then yes ship put the problem players.
Imo there is a disconnect between the playing philosophy the org wants to employ and the players we draft and deploy. If you want an old school grind chip and chase team then trade our skill guys for those types of players and get back to 2014-15 hockey. Stop trying to change players into the mold. I'm so sick of every coach trying to change Ehelers, appreciate what you have and let him do his thing.
Great post, summarizes some key issues and I agree that a significant realignment must take place between the Jets' management and coaching direction for the team and the actual Jets roster, which is anything but chip n' chase, straight lines, N/S drive the net rock 'em sock 'em. Lowry seems to want the team to play the way he did as a player -- but he had nothing like the skill of a Connor, Ehlers, JMo, Heimola, Sheif. This has been happening for ages now, we see it in how the lines are constructed and used.
This team is constructed like it's built to compete in a league that ceased to be years ago. Half skill, half grind, and never the twain shall meet.
Yeah, it's gotta change, and soon.
Howard Chuck
Registered User
Howard Chuck
Registered User
It’s a shame that we are wasting the careers of these talented players. As you and others have said, maybe this is where the discontent comes from.
Hockey is 99% perspiration, skill speed talent can all be neutralized by matchups and traps. As much as you may not like it getting pucks in deep and working the boards and cycling is what wins in the playoffs. That and physically imposing yourself on your opponent.
Gil Fisher
Registered User
Duke749
Savannah Ghost Pirates
Where have you been the last decade?
Please provide a list of the Stanley cup winners the last decade that fit your criteria. I will save you the trouble, none.
- Jun 10, 2014
- 58,958
- 31,477
Sure. Everybody would like that. But what are the odds? He's 29. He is what he is.
- Jun 10, 2014
- 58,958
- 31,477
Trouble is that Scheifele needed to be coached 3 years ago. You can be sure that he is less coachable now than he was then.
- Jun 10, 2014
- 58,958
- 31,477
Hate to see this report. It confirms that it is what I had feared, only much worse.
55 is looking uncoachable, when Paul Maurice gives up on you that's pretty much it. Maurice is a players coach and if you can't respond to him there aren't many options left. I'd trade him in the summer for a #1 D and then unload Schmidt and Dillion too for some forward depth.
Duke749
Savannah Ghost Pirates
Perhaps I’m misinterpreting what you’re saying but Tampa wasn’t going around trying to trap their way to a Cup nor were they just “getting pucks deep”. They’re the deepest most talented team in the league and are poised for another potentially deep run.
Nobody is making a deep run without having talent. Playing the “right way” and trying to physically impose your will doesn’t work.
That's what I thought you'd say. Go look it up, offense had nothing to do with them winning their cups, goaltending and defense carried that team basically at an historical level last season. They learned from their previous failures what it took to win in the playoffs. Bunch of 1 - 0 games including the Cup final game. Montreal just played the same way but Vasy out goalied Price.
Pittsburgh and Chicago were really grinding teams too I take it?
Duke749
Savannah Ghost Pirates
You honestly think they win a Cup, let alone two without guys like Kucherov, Point, or Stamkos?
You have to be an elite and deep team period.TBL is one of the top fore-checking for offense teams in the league. however, i don't think id say offense had nothing to do with them winning a cup.
