Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

[Mortimer Snerd]

Perfetti in the AHL and junior was a very good puck pursuit player. It just might take him awhile to get up to speed to do so physically in the NHL. In those lower leagues he's very good at driving g sustained offensive time. He's far from a one and done type player.

Clearly it mostly comes down to what a new coach can get out of Scheifele. If a new coach can't get him to round out his game and up his level then you need to move him as it becomes nearly impossible to build a good line around him if you need very specific high end pieces to make it work.

This whole discussion points directly to moving Scheifele this off-season. Keeping him for another year to see what a new coach could get out of him smacks a little of desperation. He turns 29 in just over a week. He is what he is and we know what he is. All this talk of getting him the perfect wingers and a sheltered role and just the right coach says it is time to trade him before his value evaporates.

That would be painful, especially if Perfetti doesn't make it as 2C. But we need to rip off the band-aid and move on.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

We could have used Lundell immediately…

Stop that!

 

[gojetsgo]

This whole discussion points directly to moving Scheifele this off-season. Keeping him for another year to see what a new coach could get out of him smacks a little of desperation. He turns 29 in just over a week. He is what he is and we know what he is. All this talk of getting him the perfect wingers and a sheltered role and just the right coach says it is time to trade him before his value evaporates.

That would be painful, especially if Perfetti doesn't make it as 2C. But we need to rip off the band-aid and move on.

yeah, he is what he is... a ppg center making 6 million a year... bring in a new coach with a better system and his game could improve drastically, were not going to get better value then that

 

[surixon]

The problem

This whole discussion points directly to moving Scheifele this off-season. Keeping him for another year to see what a new coach could get out of him smacks a little of desperation. He turns 29 in just over a week. He is what he is and we know what he is. All this talk of getting him the perfect wingers and a sheltered role and just the right coach says it is time to trade him before his value evaporates.

That would be painful, especially if Perfetti doesn't make it as 2C. But we need to rip off the band-aid and move on.

The problem is that Scheifele hasn't always been this version of a player. He was a very good and more complete player 16-18. If you can get something akin to that player then it makes sense to keep him.

He's really only had one coach his whole career. I'd atleast like to see what a new coach can do either him.

 

[surixon]

If the Chevy as GM discussion is about to ramp up - there is definitely a point…. I like Cole but did he address a need this franchise had more so than Lundell - that answer is no

I mean you never draft for need, it's always BPA. Also how is Cole not a need, if anything this year has shown us we need way more skill upfront especially with Blake's decline.

Perfetti can also play C if we need to convert him to that position.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The new coach should tell Wheeler to adapt his game because he is the RW on Lowry's line.
PLD Scheif Ehlers KFC Perfetti and Helle, to me, are untouchable this summer. I'm not sure JMo is or not.

Slamberg looked very ready in his limited time and Heinola is ready and with JMo our 1LHD and Stanimal playing 3LHD, Chevy should trade Dillon at the TD.
That or include one of Heinola or Stanimal (preferably) to Philly with some draft picks for Konecny.
Stanimal and whatever we get for Copper at the TD and Hark/KV for Konecny?
We have JMo, Dillon, Stanley, Heinola and Samberg all ready to play in the NHL. He's gotta do something with at least one of them, no?

Probably 2 of them, neither being JMo.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

yeah, he is what he is... a ppg center making 6 million a year... bring in a new coach with a better system and his game could improve drastically, were not going to get better value then that

I don't think Mark's weaknesses have anything at all to do with systems. It is possible that a new coach could turn him around, but at this stage of his career I think it is highly unlikely. Could Trotz get him to play defence? Maybe. But I wouldn't want to count on it. Can Trotz give him those linemates he needs? We probably don't have them.

How about trading him to NYI and see what Trotz can do with him?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The problem

The problem is that Scheifele hasn't always been this version of a player. He was a very good and more complete player 16-18. If you can get something akin to that player then it makes sense to keep him.

He's really only had one coach his whole career. I'd atleast like to see what a new coach can do either him.

Does that actually happen? He was a different player 4 years ago. Do players at 29 change their games like that? I think the chances of his market value dropping are better than the chances of a new coach turning him around at this stage of his career. I would rather find a GM thinking like you do to over pay for him.

It is just the conclusion that the whole discussion was screaming to me. It was not a matter of him needing 1 tweak. He needed a laundry list of things to get the potential he showed early in his career.

 

[surixon]

Does that actually happen? He was a different player 4 years ago. Do players at 29 change their games like that? I think the chances of his market value dropping are better than the chances of a new coach turning him around at this stage of his career. I would rather find a GM thinking like you do to over pay for him.

It is just the conclusion that the whole discussion was screaming to me. It was not a matter of him needing 1 tweak. He needed a laundry list of things to get the potential he showed early in his career.

We've seen a number of players over the years alter their games as they've aged to stay effective. His favorite player Yzerman did just that.

Anyhow I imagine the org are asking themselves those questions. If they don't feel he can be reeled in then he likely gets moved. I'd imagine those discussions are where the smoke originated from.

 

[gojetsgo]

I don't think Mark's weaknesses have anything at all to do with systems. It is possible that a new coach could turn him around, but at this stage of his career I think it is highly unlikely. Could Trotz get him to play defence? Maybe. But I wouldn't want to count on it. Can Trotz give him those linemates he needs? We probably don't have them.

How about trading him to NYI and see what Trotz can do with him?

I think alot of out problems do have to be with the system we are running, is schiefele going to become great defensively with a new system? no, but he would most likely be a net positive with the offense he brings, like he's had 1 coach and you want to ship him out before even trying something new? were never going to get enough value back so why the hell wouldn't we try to see what his second coach could do...

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

We've seen a number of players over the years alter their games as they've aged to stay effective. His favorite player Yzerman did just that.

Anyhow I imagine the org are asking themselves those questions. If they don't feel he can be reeled in then he likely gets moved. I'd imagine those discussions are where the smoke originated from.

I think that is totally different.
This isn't about him aging and adjusting to that. It is about his attitude.
Defence? That's not MY job.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think alot of out problems do have to be with the system we are running, is schiefele going to become great defensively with a new system? no, but he would most likely be a net positive with the offense he brings, like he's had 1 coach and you want to ship him out before even trying something new? were never going to get enough value back so why the hell wouldn't we try to see what his second coach could do...

I'm not saying we don't have systems problems. But the systems are not the problem with Scheifele.

Odds are, you are going to get your chance to see him under a new coach. Hope it works.

 

[surixon]

I think that is totally different.
This isn't about him aging and adjusting to that. It is about his attitude.
Defence? That's not MY job.

Oh I get its an attitude thing. Attitudes can get fixed though. But he is also at an age where he is going to need to adapt if he wants another big contract to take him through his mid to late 30's.

 

[gojetsgo]

I'm not saying we don't have systems problems. But the systems are not the problem with Scheifele.

Odds are, you are going to get your chance to see him under a new coach. Hope it works.

so are systems are only a problem for certain players, but other players the systems are fine? ok...

 

[10Ducky10]

How about trading him to NYI and see what Trotz can do with him?

I'd do it if Barzal is coming back.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Who? Peel? He's retired.

Look Mort I like you, but I watch literally every Jets game and all I see Scheifele do is whine and cry. I dislike Peel and he's right. But there's a point to where I can tolerate it as I understand if it's trying to win for the team but Scheifele seems to be all about himself now.

I mean, if Scheifele can take many steps (or skates back) he might learn that it's not about him it's about the team. I think Wheeler has a similar issue.

 

[ecolad]

Perfetti in the AHL and junior was a very good puck pursuit player. It just might take him awhile to get up to speed to do so physically in the NHL. In those lower leagues he's very good at driving g sustained offensive time. He's far from a one and done type player.

Clearly it mostly comes down to what a new coach can get out of Scheifele. If a new coach can't get him to round out his game and up his level then you need to move him as it becomes nearly impossible to build a good line around him if you need very specific high end pieces to make it work.

. When I mentioned one and done, I was referring to the way the line would probably generate offense -( definitely not to Perfetti).
I believe a line needs at least one player who will fill the puck pursuit/retreival role with speed (Guentzal) so that they are not limited to generating offense off the rush.

Agree fully with the comment in bold.

 

[jgimp]

I'd do it if Barzal is coming back.

Pulock?

 

[10Ducky10]

Pulock?

I'd rather have a center.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Oh I get its an attitude thing. Attitudes can get fixed though. But he is also at an age where he is going to need to adapt if he wants another big contract to take him through his mid to late 30's.

Well, that next contract is another issue. I don't think he is yet at an age where he needs to adapt to the effects of aging.

He has developed serious flaws in his game. He needs to correct them. I don't expect him to. I don't think he recognizes them.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

so are systems are only a problem for certain players, but other players the systems are fine? ok...

No, of course not. But Scheifele's issues are not systems related. Do you really believe that coaches are specifically telling him to be bad in his own zone, that that is the system?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'd do it if Barzal is coming back.

I don't think that would happen. I don't think there is a top 6 C for top 6 C, 1 for 1 trade anywhere.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Look Mort I like you, but I watch literally every Jets game and all I see Scheifele do is whine and cry. I dislike Peel and he's right. But there's a point to where I can tolerate it as I understand if it's trying to win for the team but Scheifele seems to be all about himself now.

I mean, if Scheifele can take many steps (or skates back) he might learn that it's not about him it's about the team. I think Wheeler has a similar issue.

Did you miss the ?

I agree. But I made a joke of a post that used "him" without identifying who "him" was.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

This whole discussion points directly to moving Scheifele this off-season. Keeping him for another year to see what a new coach could get out of him smacks a little of desperation. He turns 29 in just over a week. He is what he is and we know what he is. All this talk of getting him the perfect wingers and a sheltered role and just the right coach says it is time to trade him before his value evaporates.

That would be painful, especially if Perfetti doesn't make it as 2C. But we need to rip off the band-aid and move on.

Scheif would have benefitted from some coaching over the last ~5 years. Could have remained a two way player. Unfortunately, Maurice. Now his bad habits are pretty baked in to what you get. A new environment (team) where the expectations are made clear to him from day 1, might be what is needed for him to get back to the more balanced player that he once was. I don't see that happening in the Peg, unless Chevy brings a demanding new coach in the off season who is willing to break eggs in the Jets dressing room.

 

[jiho]

Well, that next contract is another issue. I don't think he is yet at an age where he needs to adapt to the effects of aging.

He has developed serious flaws in his game. He needs to correct them. I don't expect him to. I don't think he recognizes them.

I have played in beer leagues where I know players do not recognize their flaws but at the NHL level? I am curious how Maurice/Lowry have handled him. Would they not have to clearly identified Scheifele's lack of defensive play in team meetings or individual player meetings? I can not imagine the coaches have just ignored this.