Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

[hockeyarena]

What’s ever happen behind the scene needs to be sort out. Mark no longer the clutch player he used to be. Skates around and doesn’t drive the play. Unless he turns it around, not interested in watching him in Jets uniform

I'd love to figure it out. We used to think of scheif exactly as we now think of pld. Was it the money over time, is it something that happened in the room, is it something in his personal life? It's none of our business but man the artitude shift has been significant and nothing most of us would have predicted.

 

[Jets 31]

I'd love to figure it out. We used to think of scheif exactly as we now think of pld. Was it the money over time, is it something that happened in the room, is it something in his personal life? It's none of our business but man the artitude shift has been significant and nothing most of us would have predicted.

He needs to start swearing, it's just not normal to never swear.

 

[ps241]

I think Mark was way more effective when Wheeler was one of the most dominant play drivers in the NHL. They were always weak defensively but Blake use to be so good at tilting the ice they didn’t have to defend as much. Mark’s half assed defending is annoying but its hardly unique. Many of the top scorers in the league mail it in when defending. The problem now is that Mark as our top guy going power vs power loses that match up more than he wins now against good teams. Without a prime Wheeler as his sidekick he is a liability too often at evens vs the other teams best. Still gets his points but he gives more than he gets back.

I still think Mark is a valuable asset over the length of his contract but we need a new coach who actually takes change, sits down the big boys and says lets try it my way, and changes the way we do business and casts Mark in a new role. Mark is a high end scoring forward who needs to be sheltered or surrounded by different line mates next season.

 

[bennylundholm]

I think Mark was way more effective when Wheeler was one of the most dominant play drivers in the NHL. They were always weak defensively but Blake use to be so good at tilting the ice they didn’t have to defend as much. Mark’s half assed defending is annoying but its hardly unique. Many of the top scorers in the league mail it in when defending. The problem now is that Mark as our top guy going power vs power loses that match up more than he wins now against good teams. Without a prime Wheeler as his sidekick he is a liability too often at evens vs the other teams best. Still gets his points but he gives more than he gets back.

I still think Mark is a valuable asset over the length of his contract but we need a new coach who actually takes change, sits down the big boys and says lets try it my way, and changes the way we do business and casts Mark in a new role. Mark is a high end scoring forward who needs to be sheltered or surrounded by different line mates next season.

Good post. I think 55 may be better suited to play the right wing.
Decent speed, size and a good shot.
Less defensive responsibilities and no faceoffs.

 

[WolfHouse]

Good post. I think 55 may be better suited to play the right wing.
Decent speed, size and a good shot.
Less defensive responsibilities and no faceoffs.

But where do you put him now - Svech has chemistry with PLD and deserves to be on that line... Ehlers is our other top RW and he has great chemistry with Copp

After this season, it seems unlikely we have enough C depth to move Scheif to wing - Copp and Stas will be gone, Perfetti is not ready and Gus/Harkins don't seem to be top six

 

[bennylundholm]

But where do you put him now - Svech has chemistry with PLD and deserves to be on that line... Ehlers is our other top RW and he has great chemistry with Copp

After this season, it seems unlikely we have enough C depth to move Scheif to wing - Copp and Stas will be gone, Perfetti is not ready and Gus/Harkins don't seem to be top six

I'd much rather have Stastny at center.
He's our best faceoff guy and more responsible defensively than 55.

 

[surixon]

I think Mark was way more effective when Wheeler was one of the most dominant play drivers in the NHL. They were always weak defensively but Blake use to be so good at tilting the ice they didn’t have to defend as much. Mark’s half assed defending is annoying but its hardly unique. Many of the top scorers in the league mail it in when defending. The problem now is that Mark as our top guy going power vs power loses that match up more than he wins now against good teams. Without a prime Wheeler as his sidekick he is a liability too often at evens vs the other teams best. Still gets his points but he gives more than he gets back.

I still think Mark is a valuable asset over the length of his contract but we need a new coach who actually takes change, sits down the big boys and says lets try it my way, and changes the way we do business and casts Mark in a new role. Mark is a high end scoring forward who needs to be sheltered or surrounded by different line mates next season.

Agreed, the first order of business is to seperate the two of them as they both need to be sheltered now.

Put a play driver like Ehlers on Mark's line and another player who will grow into one like Perfetti. That should help push his line into the offensive end.

Put Wheeler on a third scoring line with Lowry and an acquired scoring piece like Debrusk.

That leaves the Conner/Dubois/Svech line intact.

I think that gives us 3 good lines that all should be able to outscore.

 

[tbcwpg]

I'd much rather have Stastny at center.
He's our best faceoff guy and more responsible defensively than 55.

We've got about 8 more games of Stastny here though.

 

[bennylundholm]

We've got about 8 more games of Stastny here though.

Exactly.
And if we are trying to win them, 25 should be at center ahead of 55.

 

[Jet]

I think Mark was way more effective when Wheeler was one of the most dominant play drivers in the NHL. They were always weak defensively but Blake use to be so good at tilting the ice they didn’t have to defend as much. Mark’s half assed defending is annoying but its hardly unique. Many of the top scorers in the league mail it in when defending. The problem now is that Mark as our top guy going power vs power loses that match up more than he wins now against good teams. Without a prime Wheeler as his sidekick he is a liability too often at evens vs the other teams best. Still gets his points but he gives more than he gets back.

I still think Mark is a valuable asset over the length of his contract but we need a new coach who actually takes change, sits down the big boys and says lets try it my way, and changes the way we do business and casts Mark in a new role. Mark is a high end scoring forward who needs to be sheltered or surrounded by different line mates next season.

A line of 27 55 91 could be hella exciting. You'd have to match them carefully but I could see that line outproducing the opposition 2nd line.

Give 81 80 71 the power v power match-up along with 25 17 26 in certain situations.

Finish it off with 12 9 21 and cycle in 19, 93 and 87 based on performance and I think you might have something

 

[bennylundholm]

A line of 27 55 91 could be hella exciting. You'd have to match them carefully but I could see that line outproducing the opposition 2nd line.

Give 81 80 71 the power v power match-up along with 25 17 26 in certain situations.

Finish it off with 12 9 21 and cycle in 19, 93 and 87 based on performance and I think you might have something

27. 55. 91. would get destroyed defensively.

 

[tbcwpg]

Exactly.
And if we are trying to win them, 25 should be at center ahead of 55.

I'm not sure that's the difference. Face-off wins don't impact the game very much overall, and in the d-zone in modern hockey what position you play as forward doesn't matter too much. The only thing it would do would be to put Scheifele in some unfamiliar positions in the offensive zone and reduce production.

If you want face-off wins, put Stastny in on some draws. Also Scheif is the only right shot C we have.

 

[ecolad]

Agreed, the first order of business is to seperate the two of them as they both need to be sheltered now.

Put a play driver like Ehlers on Mark's line and another player who will grow into one like Perfetti. That should help push his line into the offensive end.

Put Wheeler on a third scoring line with Lowry and an acquired scoring piece like Debrusk.

That leaves the Conner/Dubois/Svech line intact.

I think that gives us 3 good lines that all should be able to outscore.

I have some reservations about the notion of a Perfetti/Scheif/Ehlers line myself. I think we can foresee that this line would have difficulty filling defensive responsibilities everywhere but especially in our own end. and, would rely almost exclusively on generating offense off the rush (it would be creative as hell and fun to watch though). But there would be a drop off in puck possession while on offense, with the opponent exiting their end with relative ease, possibly on man advantage situations.Bottom line - I 'm not sure we'd see the outscoring you anticipate.

[ To expand slightly, I see Perfetti as quickly developing into the one who is most defensively responsible on this line but not sufficiently to overcome weakness in Scheif as well as Ehlers. But Perfetti also needs a linemate who will aggressively do puck pursuit along the corners and behind the net, to be successful himself]

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[WolfHouse]

I'm not sure that's the difference. Face-off wins don't impact the game very much overall, and in the d-zone in modern hockey what position you play as forward doesn't matter too much. The only thing it would do would be to put Scheifele in some unfamiliar positions in the offensive zone and reduce production.

If you want face-off wins, put Stastny in on some draws. Also Scheif is the only right shot C we have.

Sure looks like Copp and Stas have taken their fair share of draws when on Scheif's line this year...

I think if anything I'd run Copp as C for the next 8 games with Scheif and Ehlers and see if we can up his value at TD

 

[Jack7222]

27. 55. 91. would get destroyed defensively.

Not so sure about that. I think they could find a style that tilts the ice as long as Perfetti keeps growing and Scheif is willing to play at least some defense.

Also I wouldn't be running this line at other teams' top lines, save the Dubois line for that

 

[WolfHouse]

I have some reservations about the notion of a Perfetti/Scheif/Ehlers line myself. I think we can foresee that this line would have difficulty filling defensive responsibilities everywhere but especially in our own end. and, would rely almost exclusively on generating offense off the rush (it would be creative as hell and fun to watch though). But there would be a drop off in puck possession while on offense, with the opponent exiting their end with relative ease, possibly on man advantage situations.Bottom line - I 'm not sure we'd see the outscoring you anticipate.

[ To expand slightly, I see Perfetti as quickly developing into the one who is most defensively responsible on this line but not sufficiently to overcome weakness in Scheif as well as Ehlers. But Perfetti also needs a linemate who will aggressively do puck pursuit along the corners and behind the net, to be successful himself]

Just my 2 cents worth.

Ehlers has defensive weaknesses? He's one of our better D forwards... I wouldn't put him anywhere close to Scheif and Wheeler in that category

 

[bennylundholm]

I'm not sure that's the difference. Face-off wins don't impact the game very much overall, and in the d-zone in modern hockey what position you play as forward doesn't matter too much. The only thing it would do would be to put Scheifele in some unfamiliar positions in the offensive zone and reduce production.

If you want face-off wins, put Stastny in on some draws. Also Scheif is the only right shot C we have.

I'm afraid your theory of lower production and unfamiliarity in the offensive zone for 55 on the wing is flawed.
In today's hockey, forwards in the offensive zone interchange constantly. Whether 55 is at center of wing in the offensive zone would be of little relevance except faceoffs.

 

[surixon]

I have some reservations about the notion of a Perfetti/Scheif/Ehlers line myself. I think we can foresee that this line would have difficulty filling defensive responsibilities everywhere but especially in our own end. and, would rely almost exclusively on generating offense off the rush (it would be creative as hell and fun to watch though). But there would be a drop off in puck possession while on offense, with the opponent exiting their end with relative ease, possibly on man advantage situations.Bottom line - I 'm not sure we'd see the outscoring you anticipate.

[ To expand slightly, I see Perfetti as quickly developing into the one who is most defensively responsible on this line but not sufficiently to overcome weakness in Scheif as well as Ehlers. But Perfetti also needs a linemate who will aggressively do puck pursuit along the corners and behind the net, to be successful himself]

Just my 2 cents worth.

Good points. Not sure we have the right mix of forwards to have all of those jobs done well on all three lines. I am hoping a new coach can get Mark geared towards busting his but and doing a lot of that puck pursuit work. No real reason why he can't fulfill that role if hes motivated. My basis for the line is the Stastny, Ehlers and Scheifele line that crushed their metrics. Granted it was a real small sample.

I have concerns defensively with Mark but not really sure how to solve that given the pieces we have.

Maybe move Cole to center and run this:

Conner Dubois Scheifele
Debrusk Perfetti Ehlers
Svech Lowry Wheeler

 

[JetsNut]

Ehlers has defensive weaknesses? He's one of our better D forwards... I wouldn't put him anywhere close to Scheif and Wheeler in that category

Scheifele and Wheeler are both huge defensive liabilities. Unfortunately no one has detected their actions and they continue on to do as they please.

 

[bennylundholm]

Scheifele and Wheeler are both huge defensive liabilities. Unfortunately no one has detected their actions and they continue on to do as they please.

Bingo. 55 and 26 are always negative plus minus players. Some, not their fault but most yes. Always a step or two behind their coverage either low hockey IQ reading the play or lazy.

 

[tbcwpg]

I'm afraid your theory of lower production and unfamiliarity in the offensive zone for 55 on the wing is flawed.
In today's hockey, forwards in the offensive zone interchange constantly. Whether 55 is at center of wing in the offensive zone would be of little relevance except faceoffs.

You might be right for most teams but the way the Jets play I'm not so sure

 

[LowLefty]

I have some reservations about the notion of a Perfetti/Scheif/Ehlers line myself. I think we can foresee that this line would have difficulty filling defensive responsibilities everywhere but especially in our own end. and, would rely almost exclusively on generating offense off the rush (it would be creative as hell and fun to watch though). But there would be a drop off in puck possession while on offense, with the opponent exiting their end with relative ease, possibly on man advantage situations.Bottom line - I 'm not sure we'd see the outscoring you anticipate.

[ To expand slightly, I see Perfetti as quickly developing into the one who is most defensively responsible on this line but not sufficiently to overcome weakness in Scheif as well as Ehlers. But Perfetti also needs a linemate who will aggressively do puck pursuit along the corners and behind the net, to be successful himself]

Just my 2 cents worth.

The Scheif line would need a resurgence of Scheif (defensively) - hopefully a new coach would help with that.
And if that were to happen, that line should be a good one.
Defensive awareness wouldn't be an issue with the other two - but they might get bogged down a bit trying to defend.
As noted by another, matchups would be important -

I can see the PLD line (as it currently is constructed) being the line that would take on the tough matchups and take some of the pressure of Scheif - which might do wonders.

 

[WolfHouse]

Still say our best line combos are
Connor-PLD-Svech
Copp-Stas-Ehlers
Lowry-Scheif-Wheeler

I would spend the rest of this season running that third line and trying to get Scheifele's defensive game back

 

[ecolad]

The Scheif line would need a resurgence of Scheif (defensively) - hopefully a new coach would help with that.
And if that were to happen, that line should be a good one.
Defensive awareness wouldn't be an issue with the other two - but they might get bogged down a bit trying to defend.
As noted by another, matchups would be important -

I can see the PLD line (as it currently is constructed) being the line that would take on the tough matchups and take some of the pressure of Scheif - which might do wonders.

My main issue with this potential line is that they stylistically would be a one and done , generate scoring off the rush line. None of the three have any inclination to check aggressively and create turnovers (puck retreival/puck pursuit) .My view is that you need such type on every line to be competitive - as evidenced by DuBois/Connor working better with Svetch.

Ehlers for all his pluses has never been known for aggressively checking/pursuing ala someone like Guentzel for instance. Scheif has shown reluctance to do this work himself, does too much stick checking and fly-by checking, and prefers to find soft spots in the D so as to finish. Perfetti's entire game is founded upon playing back somewhat and anticipating where the puck may finally go, then interrupting and creating plays for his linemates. I'm not sure that this line would generate the scoring chances many anticipate.

 

[WolfHouse]

My main issue with this potential line is that they stylistically would be a one and done , generate scoring off the rush line. None of the three have any inclination to check aggressively and create turnovers (puck retreival/puck pursuit) .My view is that you need such type on every line to be competitive - as evidenced by DuBois/Connor working better with Svetch.

Ehlers for all his pluses has never been known for aggressively checking/pursuing ala someone like Guentzel for instance. Scheif has shown reluctance to do this work himself, does too much stick checking and fly-by checking, and prefers to find soft spots in the D so as to finish. Perfetti's entire game is founded upon playing back somewhat and anticipating where the puck may finally go, then interrupting and creating plays for his linemates. I'm not sure that this line would generate the scoring chances many anticipate.

To me, the Connor-PLD-Svech line is the variety you want in a line...
Finisher/finesse-power forward-role player net front

Ehlers-Scheif-Wheeler did have that combo - but only if Scheif regains his 200' game
Finisher play driver-finesse playmaker-power forward

That's why I'm interested in Lowry-Scheif-Wheeler now that Wheeler has lost a step so the roles change...
Power forward/netfront-finesse/finisher-playmaker