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Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

surixon said:
Yup, Boston doesn't have the pieces to land Mark unless they put MaCovoy on the table and that isn't happening.
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I have no doubt that 55 would blow the doors off in Boston and Scheifele- McAvoy would end up looking fair. Agreed..... won't happen though.
 
surixon said:
So you want a second pairing defensive dmen to be the main piece back for a top end center?

We already have Carlo in DeMelo and I doubt anyone would think of DeMelo as the main piece back for him. Add in Samberg, Dillion and Stanley and we have more then enough defensive dmen.

They have nothing I want for Mark outside of a top pairing elite dmen in MaCovoy.
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I did say Carlo +

Carlos would be our top RHD, would he not? A significant upgrade on DeMelo I thought. Kind of Trouba lite and could be a good partner for Morrissey.

I agree though that Boston is not an ideal trading partner because the plusses are not that attractive.
 
WolfHouse said:
Calgary's or 2023 first I would think...
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imo if you look at some precedent trades such as ROR, JT Miller, Eichel, i don't know how your deal rates. Not to familiar with Justin Barron if he has top-pair RD potential, that'd be a huge boon for us if he did.
Also - not sure if MTL is really going to be dealing for a 29 year old soon-to-be UFA. i don't know if scheifele is a difference b/w them and winning a cup the next 2 seasons. they don't have a goalie (assuming price is done), or a strong d group. if they were closer to the PO line, id have them pegged as a team v interested, however i think they sit this one out after this past season. might need to commit to a rebuild.
 
ducky said:
I did say Carlo +

Carlos would be our top RHD, would he not? A significant upgrade on DeMelo I thought. Kind of Trouba lite and could be a good partner for Morrissey.

I agree though that Boston is not an ideal trading partner because the plusses are not that attractive.
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I don't really agree. He's bigger but his impact is roughly the same. Carlo has a GSVA .07 wheras DeMelo has an impact of .05. So pretty darn close to the same impact. Are you really interested in getting a slight upgrade on Dylan as the main piece for Mark?

He isn't at all comparable to Trouba. Jacob is a shoe in to produces 30 plus points a year whereas Carlo may hit 20 in a great year but otherwise is low to mid teens. If you just look at size and grit sure but you are discounting the offense Trouba brings to the table on top of that which makes him a significantly more valuable player.

As has been seen you can get defensive dmen for mid round picks. DeMelo 3rd, Dillion two second round picks. Imo you need a true impact piece as the main center piece foe Scheifele not a nice complementary piece.
 
More spit-balling on the Boston idea:

Scheifele for Carlo and Debrusk?

Does this make sense? Would rather get a #2C and/or a #1RD back in any deal. This is.... neither. I think Debrusk is a good piece, but if Ehlers stays at LW, we are crowded there.
 
jamiebez said:
More spit-balling on the Boston idea:

Scheifele for Carlo and Debrusk?

Does this make sense? Would rather get a #2C and/or a #1RD back in any deal. This is.... neither. I think Debrusk is a good piece, but if Ehlers stays at LW, we are crowded there.
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That is 50 cents on the dollar for Mark. It's a second pairing defensive dmen and middle 6 winger. There is no upside for us in this deal. We just add more expensive depth when we need to be shedding cap from our depth pieces.
 
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The ask from Boston for Scheif is obviously Lysell and then you add significantly from there.
 
Unless you can replace Schiefs scoring with an equal player why would anyone consider trading him?
 
sipowicz said:
Unless you can replace Schiefs scoring with an equal player why would anyone consider trading him?
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It's just speculation on speculation for the sake of speculation. Only way we trade Scheif is if he asks for one, which it's speculated that he may want out. 2 years left before UFA his value is highest now when he can give 2 years to a team before he most likely walks to FA and cashes in.

There's 3 logical barriers to this.

1. Chevy rarely makes big trades within the division/conference so east is most likely.

2. Scheif might have been smart enough to factor that into his 10 team no trade list, so he may have mostly eastern and pacific division teams on it.

3. We are dealing from a slight position of weakness, so some teams are going to lowball

I think Scheifs 10 team no trade list likely features the usual suspects. Arizona, Buffalo, Ottawa, New Jersey, Columbus.
Then there are a string of maybes like Philly, Seattle, Minnesota, Detroit, Calgary, Edmonton. Though the last 3 may be unlikely given recent trends.

I agree that we should be looking for more of a 1 for 1 swap but it's going to be extremely hard to get anyone with any sort of mid to long term team control for 2 years of Scheif. This gets easier on July 1st when Scheif can negotiate a new contract. There's also the factor of what the new coach brings to the table. Which may turn things around depending on who it is.
 
surixon said:
Lysell doesn't excite me either. 5'10 player who didn't score that well as a draft plus 1 in the dub. Just don't see much there either.
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Yeah, I don't think Boston has the assets to trade for Scheifele even though they should be all over him. But Lysell would need to be included in any trade with them.
 
Daximus said:
It's just speculation on speculation for the sake of speculation. Only way we trade Scheif is if he asks for one, which it's speculated that he may want out. 2 years left before UFA his value is highest now when he can give 2 years to a team before he most likely walks to FA and cashes in.

There's 3 logical barriers to this.

1. Chevy rarely makes big trades within the division/conference so east is most likely.

2. Scheif might have been smart enough to factor that into his 10 team no trade list, so he may have mostly eastern and pacific division teams on it.

3. We are dealing from a slight position of weakness, so some teams are going to lowball

I think Scheifs 10 team no trade list likely features the usual suspects. Arizona, Buffalo, Ottawa, New Jersey, Columbus.
Then there are a string of maybes like Philly, Seattle, Minnesota, Detroit, Calgary, Edmonton. Though the last 3 may be unlikely given recent trends.

I agree that we should be looking for more of a 1 for 1 swap but it's going to be extremely hard to get anyone with any sort of mid to long term team control for 2 years of Scheif. This gets easier on July 1st when Scheif can negotiate a new contract. There's also the factor of what the new coach brings to the table. Which may turn things around depending on who it is.
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Not sure about Buffalo- he would be continuing in hawerchuks footsteps
 
Daximus said:
Yeah Buffalo is hard to gauge. As is Detroit.

There's also the possibility that he may waive for a team on his list. He has to submit 10 teams, but that doesn't mean he isn't willing to go to all of them.
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Still 21 teams should be more then enough of a market. It's going to be mostly teams looking to compete that want him anyhow and those are the teams less likely to be on his list.
 
surixon said:
Still 21 teams should be more then enough of a market. It's going to be mostly teams looking to compete that want him anyhow and those are the teams less likely to be on his list.
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There's a few up and comers like Detroit and Ottawa that may want to turn the corner. Then you have to factor in the teams that have the assets to actually make a deal happen. 1v1 trades are going to be very tough to facilitate.
 
surixon said:
Lysell doesn't excite me either. 5'10 player who didn't score that well as a draft plus 1 in the dub. Just don't see much there either.
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Could've said the same thing about Jarvis 10 months ago. They're basically the same archetype of player.
 
surixon said:
I don't really agree. He's bigger but his impact is roughly the same. Carlo has a GSVA .07 wheras DeMelo has an impact of .05. So pretty darn close to the same impact. Are you really interested in getting a slight upgrade on Dylan as the main piece for Mark?

He isn't at all comparable to Trouba. Jacob is a shoe in to produces 30 plus points a year whereas Carlo may hit 20 in a great year but otherwise is low to mid teens. If you just look at size and grit sure but you are discounting the offense Trouba brings to the table on top of that which makes him a significantly more valuable player.

As has been seen you can get defensive dmen for mid round picks. DeMelo 3rd, Dillion two second round picks. Imo you need a true impact piece as the main center piece foe Scheifele not a nice complementary piece.
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I like Carlo - exactly the type of dman this team is missing (shut down) -
Not saying he's the key pce in a Scheif trade - but he would fit here like a glove.
 
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ello said:
Could've said the same thing about Jarvis 10 months ago. They're basically the same archetype of player.
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Jarvis put up a 1.7 ppg in his draft year. Lysell didn't manage 1.2. There is a bit of a difference between the two, no?

LowLefty said:
I like Carlo - exactly the type of dman this team is missing (shut down) -
Not saying he's the key pce in a Scheif trade - but he would fit here like a glove.
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You need Carlo with some offense. He's no different then what we currently have in big and gritty defensive dmen.
 
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surixon said:
Jarvis put up a 1.7 ppg in his draft year. Lysell didn't manage 1.2. There is a bit of a difference between the two, no?



You need Carlo with some offense. He's no different then what we currently have in big and gritty defensive dmen.
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I'd take him over any of our guys as a shut down guy - he plays against the best, kills penalties and actually plays a defensive game - which we need.
You can't have it all unless you want to point at the handful of top notch dmen in the league that can do both.

You don't need him to come with offense - we are supposed to already have that back there with the little guys (now and up can coming)
 
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LowLefty said:
I'd take him over any of our guys as a shut down guy - he plays against the best, kills penalties and actually plays a defensive game - which we need.
You can't have it all unless you want to point at the handful of top notch dmen in the league that can do both.

You don't need him to come with offense - we are supposed to already have that back there with the little guys (now and up can coming)
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He doesn't play against the best he plays on their second pairing. McAvoy plays their hard matchups and Carlo spent no time with him this season.

Carlo's results aren't any better defensively leading up to this year then guys like Dillion and DeMelo. He would have looked just as lost in our awful scheme. Imo we have more then enough defense only dmen in DeMelo, Dillion and Samberg. What we need is a true two way big dmen to pair with JoMo and then you can run a bottom 4 with one skilled and one suppression guy on each pairing.
 
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