Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

[kanadalainen]

I don't blame a 35+ year old player for losing a step and becoming less effective.... but I do blame an 29 year old player for deciding to play like a 35+ year old.

And perhaps a special coach may be able to fix this? Or a sports psychologist in the style of deus ex machina.

 

[voyageur]

Trading away Helle would be insane and foolish. He is arguably the best goalie of the past 5 seasons. Do we want Pavelec-style goaltending, so we can be a bottom-dweller, that no level headed NHL player wants to come to Winnipeg?

Helle is one of the only reasons we have not finished in last place for the past 2 seasons.

I am not advocating trading Hellebuyck. I was responding to the post that suggested in order to get Cossa from Detroit we'd have to trade him, which I don't believe to be true. But I don't think the Jets will be able to re-sign Hellebuyck, so I think you have to look at replacements in the next two years. But that's neither here nor there.

Pertaining to Scheifele, if he were traded, say with a year left on his contract, what are the chances Lucius emerges as a centre, or is he better suited for the wing? Or do the Jets make a play on Geekie this year, as an eventual replacement?

I expect the band to be kept together for one more year, and then Chevy will have to make some moves, gauged on effectiveness, salary requests, etc.

 

[Teemusalami204]

Maybe Sheif is just upset about Chevy throwing this season in the garbage by letting lowry stay as head coach.

Chevy was going to get lucky I guess ? Hoping lowry was going to knock it out of the park?

Biggest offseason of the franchises history and we don’t find a suitable coach to try and make the playoffs

I’m not a fan of sheifs game at all for a few years now but if this could potentially be the reason it’s understandable.. it’s still not acceptable for sheif to check out though

 

[fmrdh]

If the team decides to move on from 55

Vegas is always looking for a new shiny toy so maybe a deal around Scheifele and Theodore? A top pairing left handed D that plays the right side would really help the team IMO. He also has a good contract.

 

[surixon]

Will Scheifele's defensive mediocrity hold the Jets back from Cup contention? - hockeythoughts.ca

Mark Scheifele's offensive capabilities are obvious. Is his defensive play holding the Jets back from reaching their ultimate goal of the Stanley Cup?

hockeythoughts.ca

The problem with this article is that if you look at just the last three years his offense doesn't make up for it. Including his good years is fine but that was also a long time ago and he's past his peak years physically.

 

[TS Quint]

I like the idea of moving scheifele to the wing... Although do wonder how he'd take it personally. Idk what his problem has been the past four seasons, but a demotion of that sort might make his attitude or play even shittier

Didnt something happen similarly with Stamkos from c to wing early in his career? Anyone recall?

At this point what do his feelings matter? Its about winning, he is going to be moving past his prime in a couple years, and if he wants to go back to centre so badly he can prove he wants to be there by showing he is willing to put the effort into playing defense.

I don't want to see him traded. I think he has a high value for his cap hit. But I feel like the Jets have tried nothing to improve his deficentcies and they are all out of ideas.

 

[TS Quint]

Connor-PLD-Scheifele
Ehlers-Perfetti-Wheeler

Looks like a good top 6. Have to rebuild the bottom six though. Maybe get another middle six winger to play with Perfetti and Ehlers and have Stastny and Wheeler play together.

Perfetti would be worse than Scheifele at this point at everything.

 

[DRW204]

At this point what do his feelings matter? Its about winning, he is going to be moving past his prime in a couple years, and if he wants to go back to centre so badly he can prove he wants to be there by showing he is willing to put the effort into playing defense.

I don't want to see him traded. I think he has a high value for his cap hit. But I feel like the Jets have tried nothing to improve his deficentcies and they are all out of ideas.

i agree, i try not to let feelings or biasness creep in. however i am not sure if this is the case with the Jets.

if feelings didn't matter, that move would have happened a while ago. if feelings didn't matter maurice wouldn't have waited what 3 years to bench him during a game b/c of poor defensive play.

i agree it's about winning, is scheifele playing winning hockey akin to winners like point, bergeron, ROR for instance? top-line Cs of cup winning teams. i don't think so.

 

[Teemusalami204]

Part of me thinks we should first see if a new coach makes a positive impression on Schiefele . Problem is if it doesn’t work and Schiefele regresses even more/ tanks then his trade value goes downhill fast.

True North needs to determine how likely a new coach will improve or alienate Schiefele. And then act accordingly.

Sheif is more important then the rest of the team ? I think how the coach effects the rest of the team would be more important no ?

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Maybe Sheif is just upset about Chevy throwing this season in the garbage by letting lowry stay as head coach.

Chevy was going to get lucky I guess ? Hoping lowry was going to knock it out of the park?

Biggest offseason of the franchises history and we don’t find a suitable coach to try and make the playoffs

I’m not a fan of sheifs game at all for a few years now but if this could potentially be the reason it’s understandable.. it’s still not acceptable for sheif to check out though

Scheif was awful before Maurice resigned though...

The hit last playoffs symbolized the new Scheif - that was a totally selfish play no matter how you look at it - yes I think its a clean hit but actually backchecking prevents that goal as well. Even there he stopped to glide to line up that hit instead of skating hard and sacrificing his body to stop a goal.

He was angry that the Jets were not mopping the floor with the Canadiens - that's my impression. He symbolizes this team's misguided sense of entitlement. That Hockey News article was the worst thing to happen to the Jets... we didn't win the cup in 2020 and now we play like we did and are going to coast to another one.

 

[Heldig]

If you want to get Cossa from DRW you would need to give them Helle. If you also give them Scheifele, there needs to be a lot more coming back. Who do you have in mind?

I wondered about Hellebucyk (and a guy - Vesalainen?)for Cossa, Soderblom/Veleno and their 2022 1st. Jets would then have to sign someone for goal in the summer

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I wondered about Hellebucyk (and a guy - Vesalainen?)for Cossa, Soderblom/Veleno and their 2022 1st. Jets would then have to sign someone for goal in the summer

Hmmmm
They would want top 3 protection on that pick. Could be a good one. Don't think they would want to give it up, but for a top goalie, I think they have to do it.

Gives us a strong G prospect but no one for the now. Definitely a futures move on our part, but if Cossa pans out fairly quickly, it could be a fast rebuild.

 

[Huffer]

I wondered about Hellebucyk (and a guy - Vesalainen?)for Cossa, Soderblom/Veleno and their 2022 1st. Jets would then have to sign someone for goal in the summer

Are the wings really ready to try and go for it this early in the rebuild though I wonder?

That's why I was interested in Wallstadt. The Wild are much more of a "now" team. But their upcoming cap issues are an issue.

 

[DRW204]

Are the wings really ready to try and go for it this early in the rebuild though I wonder?

That's why I was interested in Wallstadt. The Wild are much more of a "now" team. But their upcoming cap issues are an issue.

They aren't. They're worse off than the Jets they aren't going to trade of two years of Helle.

With Wilds Parise and suter buy outs, they need strong elc contributors which wallstadt can be.

 

[Huffer]

They aren't. They're worse off than the Jets they aren't going to trade of two years of Helle.

With Wilds Parise and suter buy outs, they need strong elc contributors which wallstadt can be.

My thoughts as well.

 

[Heldig]

They aren't. They're worse off than the Jets they aren't going to trade of two years of Helle.

With Wilds Parise and suter buy outs, they need strong elc contributors which wallstadt can be.

I thought of the Wings mostly because of the Michigan connection and they have the assets to give up for a marquee goalie that they will most likely be able to re-sign. It was already suggested the wings were looking for a goalie this summer.

 

[TS Quint]

i agree, i try not to let feelings or biasness creep in. however i am not sure if this is the case with the Jets.

if feelings didn't matter, that move would have happened a while ago. if feelings didn't matter maurice wouldn't have waited what 3 years to bench him during a game b/c of poor defensive play.

i agree it's about winning, is scheifele playing winning hockey akin to winners like point, bergeron, ROR for instance? top-line Cs of cup winning teams. i don't think so.

When I say feeling I meant more for Scheifele personally and the amount of time he has to be at his best as that closes he needs to either want to play winning hockey and be a winner. Maybe poor wording , maybe more like he needs to swallow his pride for the betterment of the team if he wants to reach his goals.

You don't need a Selkie or be some of the best defensive centres in the league like you listed to be and effective centre.

When I get mad at him it's not because he's lost. It's when he knows where to be but choses to be a stick length away on the offensive side rather than shoulder to shoulder stick to stick. Or that short handed goal against the Kings where instead of sticking with his guy he lets him skate by and then he peels off.

 

[DRW204]

When I say feeling I meant more for Scheifele personally and the amount of time he has to be at his best as that closes he needs to either want to play winning hockey and be a winner. Maybe poor wording , maybe more like he needs to swallow his pride for the betterment of the team if he wants to reach his goals.

You don't need a Selkie or be some of the best defensive centres in the league like you listed to be and effective centre.

When I get mad at him it's not because he's lost. It's when he knows where to be but choses to be a stick length away on the offensive side rather than shoulder to shoulder stick to stick. Or that short handed goal against the Kings where instead of sticking with his guy he lets him skate by and then he peels off.

No he def doesn't need to be a Selke guy. Even during his peak I'd rate him average-above average defensively, but he tried. Nowadays he doesn't try and is below average to bad.
I don't think there's a skill or physical trait that precludes scheifele from being merely average defensively. To me it's effort, motivation, the intangible stuff. For a guy making 6m, of his NHL stature and experience that's inexcusable for it to go on for this long.

 

[Zippity]

No he def doesn't need to be a Selke guy. Even during his peak I'd rate him average-above average defensively, but he tried. Nowadays he doesn't try and is below average to bad.
I don't think there's a skill or physical trait that precludes scheifele from being merely average defensively. To me it's effort, motivation, the intangible stuff. For a guy making 6m, of his NHL stature and experience that's inexcusable for it to go on for this long.

It amazes me that he has not been benched once yet this whole season.

 

[surixon]

Well Murat in his mailbox part 2 post indicated that plenty of NHL executives are noticing Mark's lack of effort. If they are noticing it then you can bet his teammates and our management notice it. Thinks it might be causing issues in the room.

Digging deeper into Jets' defensive woes and Mark Scheifele conundrum: Mailbag

All of this and more — plus a special, characteristically blunt appearance by Murat's mom.

theathletic.com

 

[Heldig]

Well Murat in his mailbox part 2 post indicated that plenty of NHL executives are noticing Mark's lack of effort. If they are noticing it then you can bet his teammates and our management notice it. Thinks it might be causing issues in the room.

Digging deeper into Jets' defensive woes and Mark Scheifele conundrum: Mailbag

All of this and more — plus a special, characteristically blunt appearance by Murat's mom.

theathletic.com

He is playing like he does not want to be there...either Winnipeg or on the ice, period.

It is an obvious problem for the team's so-called premier "retire as a Jet" player.

 

[SCP Guy]

Work has to be put in to make Mark a #1 C again..... If you trade him this summer you will be selling low as you will get a return for a middle of the pack #2 C. If you think that he will only get worse then you may be willing to sell him cheap this summer, but I think you must hold on and rebuild his value at this point.

 

[Adam da bomb]

He is playing like he does not want to be there...either Winnipeg or on the ice, period.

It is an obvious problem for the team's so-called premier "retire as a Jet" player.

Hopefully it's an off ice issue. I would never wish it on anyone, but, if he is suffering long term effects of covid, is struggling with his mental health and is able to get proper help there are a million reasons why he could be struggling that could allow him to rebound as a Jet.

 

[DRW204]

He is playing like he does not want to be there...either Winnipeg or on the ice, period.

It is an obvious problem for the team's so-called premier "retire as a Jet" player.

Maybe Chevy has been working the phones till he gets a slam dunk of a deal like Sakic did with Duchene..... Ok probably not

 

[Oilpeg]

He is playing like he does not want to be there...either Winnipeg or on the ice, period.

It is an obvious problem for the team's so-called premier "retire as a Jet" player.

There's something wrong mentally/emotionally...I hate to speculate on what it could be, but he just doesn't look happy on the ice. He seems genuinely excited when his team scores and seems engaged on the bench, but his overall demeanor is of someone who's suffering some sort of depression causing some mental lapses. And those lapses aren't just defensively, they're happening offensively, too. When's the last time he carried the puck into the o-zone and didn't stop up and look for a trailer? When's the last time he drove the net? Even on the PP, he seems to lose focus and try risky passes that don't work. He's simply not himself. The fact his offensive numbers are still as high as they are speak to his natural skill, which is still pushing to the surface in spite of everything else. I'm as frustrated in what I've seen from him this year as everyone else, but I want to believe there's a reason for it that can be worked through.

People are saying it's been four years like this, but I don't think that's really right, it's been this year for sure, but I don't think he was like this last year or the years prior. Maybe I'm wrong though.