Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

[TS Quint]

That backcheck on the Kings PK goal. How do you Iook your teammates in the eye after that?

.....and I'm usually defending him but there are times where he can't be defended. It's that kind EFFORT that is so frustrating. Just, meh it's all you Helle.

 

[FlappyGiraffe]

Maybe the Evans thing took a lot of that out of him. He wasn't great defensively before but at least he looked like he was trying.

Mark seems like the kind of guy who really cares about his legacy to me, could be that he feels he'll always be remembered for that now or it being just black mark in general on his career

 

[TS Quint]

Mark seems like the kind of guy who really cares about his legacy to me, could be that he feels he'll always be remembered for that now or it being just black mark in general on his career

Judging by his comments and his suspension I dont think he believes he did anything wrong and neither do I.

 

[tbcwpg]

Judging by his comments and his suspension I dont think he believes he did anything wrong and neither do I.

It can still affect you. Like he did something and a guy ended up on a stretcher. If I T-Boned some granny's car with mine in an intersection where she ran a red light, I may not have done anything wrong but it's still impactful on the psyche.

I'm just speculating about Scheifele here. It could be the hit, it could be he's really intense about hockey and it rubs some teammates the wrong way, it could be both. I absolutely don't believe the stuff about sulking because Dubois is here or he isn't playing with Connor or what have you. I think it's something for a sports psychologist.

 

[Ducky10]

The getting someone to take the pressure off Perfetti seemed to imply that. A temp to give Perfetti more time. If it is not a temp, then Perfetti is not in the C conversation at all and what are we talking about?

The possibilities are endless. Helle for a top 6 C and Scheifele for a starting goalie.
Dillon and Schmidt for picks. The picks somewhere for a prospect. We have enough D prospects that we can part with one or two. Put a package together. If we keep Wheeler, he can play C for a non-contending year or two. Endless.

A temp are your words not mine. I think regardless of whether the Jets are going to contend or not, they need someone who can replace a lot of Scheifele’s point production, because it’s not going to be Perfetti next season or quite possible the season after. Actually my initial post indicated a good top 6 player period, not necessarily a centre. The thought is about taking pressure off of Perfetti and PLD to be the main point getters and take a lot of the attention. PLD, Perfetti and Connor this year benefitted greatly from Scheifele taking big minuted against top QOC. Without him, that doesn’t happen and Wheeler at C isn’t going to either.
Just because I don’t think the Jets are going to contend next year doesn’t imply you turn it into a full scale developmental year.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

A temp are your words not mine. I think regardless of whether the Jets are going to contend or not, they need someone who can replace a lot of Scheifele’s point production, because it’s not going to be Perfetti next season or quite possible the season after. Actually my initial post indicated a good top 6 player period, not necessarily a centre. The thought is about taking pressure off of Perfetti and PLD to be the main point getters and take a lot of the attention. PLD, Perfetti and Connor this year benefitted greatly from Scheifele taking big minuted against top QOC. Without him, that doesn’t happen and Wheeler at C isn’t going to either.
Just because I don’t think the Jets are going to contend next year doesn’t imply you turn it into a full scale developmental year.

I didn't say those were your words. I said that was the implication of your words. Edit: at least that is the implication I got from it.

If, in fact, Scheifele is a net negative, we don't actually need to replace his point production. Anyone who is a net positive there would = a net improvement.

What I want to avoid, in any trade of Scheifele, is rigidly insisting that the return MUST be this or that. If it is a 1RHD then we will need to find the production elsewhere. For example.

If we trade Scheifele without getting a top 6 C we are going to be back to having only 1 top 6 C again and that is a problem that would have to be dealt with, one way or another.

Any trade of any top 6/top 4 player is going to create a hole that will need to be filled somehow.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I think that fiasco was part of it. It was like the first time he actually skated 100% to back check, and then gets punished for it. And beyond the NHL's response, the shameful treatment of his family by "fans" would traumatize most people.

I'm not going to defend his family's harassment, but he was not penalized for "back checking". He had no chance to stop the goal and gave a guy a concussion for no other reason than he was pissed off and wanted to hurt someone. That's what he was penalized for.

And if that's what's turned him into a sulking quitter then he's got no business being in the NHL.

 

[Ducky10]

I'm not going to defend his family's harassment, but he was not penalized for "back checking". He had no chance to stop the goal and gave a guy a concussion for no other reason than he was pissed off and wanted to hurt someone. That's what he was penalized for.

And if that's what's turned him into a sulking quitter then he's got no business being in the NHL.

That’s your interpretation. Your ability to read Scheifele’s mind is remarkable.

 

[Guffman]

In terms of replacing Schiefele’s production, Florida (top team in the east) has Sam Bennett as 2C.

If Schiefele is just interested in chasing stats and being a net negative 5 v 5… and we can elevate Ehlers to PP1… I am not super concerned about replacing Schiefele’s production.

He’s got a frickin‘ “A” on his jersey. Why does this so-called “professional“ even need a coach to kick him in the arse? What happened to the ”hockey nerd” who wanted to be the best?

I hate the type if player that Schiefele has become.

 

[fmrdh]

One would think that someone who considers themselves a “student of the game”, would realize that the defensive zone is a large portion of any hockey rink and in order to be the best player he can be, focus on developing a good 200ft game.

 

[Aggie204]

One would think that someone who considers themselves a “student of the game”, would realize that the defensive zone is a large portion of any hockey rink and in order to be the best player he can be, focus on developing a good 200ft game.

Empty platitudes, like me telling my wife I’m gonna join a gym.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

That’s your interpretation. Your ability to read Scheifele’s mind is remarkable.

No mind reading needed. I intentionally used the verb hurt, not injure. Any time you strike someone, the goal is to hurt them. That is, cause them pain or discomfort. You're right, I can't know if Scheifele meant to injure Evans. But he should know the potential outcome of a hit like that. At best it was reckless, at worst it was predatory.

 

[voyageur]

I didn't say those were your words. I said that was the implication of your words. Edit: at least that is the implication I got from it.

If, in fact, Scheifele is a net negative, we don't actually need to replace his point production. Anyone who is a net positive there would = a net improvement.

What I want to avoid, in any trade of Scheifele, is rigidly insisting that the return MUST be this or that. If it is a 1RHD then we will need to find the production elsewhere. For example.

If we trade Scheifele without getting a top 6 C we are going to be back to having only 1 top 6 C again and that is a problem that would have to be dealt with, one way or another.

Any trade of any top 6/top 4 player is going to create a hole that will need to be filled somehow.

I don't want to trade Scheifele. Especially in a lateral trade that puts the team in the same bind of having a UFA in the same time frame as him, because it's not going to be easy to re-sign any pending UFA, especially to a mediocre team. So as a GM you are still in the same situation, of having a player that you have to make a decision on. When Scheifele is one of the faces of the franchise, you have to look at a rebuilding. Especially when Hellebuyck could be on the way out in 2 years too, or less. If I were trading I'd look to Detroit, and some of their prospects, including Cossa. And go back to 2016 and 2017 with a lot of young players working their way up.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't want to trade Scheifele. Especially in a lateral trade that puts the team in the same bind of having a UFA in the same time frame as him, because it's not going to be easy to re-sign any pending UFA, especially to a mediocre team. So as a GM you are still in the same situation, of having a player that you have to make a decision on. When Scheifele is one of the faces of the franchise, you have to look at a rebuilding. Especially when Hellebuyck could be on the way out in 2 years too, or less. If I were trading I'd look to Detroit, and some of their prospects, including Cossa. And go back to 2016 and 2017 with a lot of young players working their way up.

I don't like the idea of trading Scheifele for another player who can go to UFA in 2 years either.

I'd love to get Cossa from Detroit, but I expect they have big plans for him. Would they want to rush their rebuild by taking some of our older players in exchange for their younger ones? Not impossible. Not likely.

 

[voyageur]

I don't like the idea of trading Scheifele for another player who can go to UFA in 2 years either.

I'd love to get Cossa from Detroit, but I expect they have big plans for him. Would they want to rush their rebuild by taking some of our older players in exchange for their younger ones? Not impossible. Not likely.

I have no idea what Stevie Y will do, I think that's a hard division to rise to the top of, but adding Scheifele would make it easier to make a play on Copp in the offseason, and all of a sudden that's a solid 2nd line for Detroit, if you add Vrana or Raymond to it. Doing nothing but waiting out the rebuild probably affects the ability to re-sign Dylan Larkin, who is UFA at the end of next year. Wings probably have the best prospect pool to rebuild with, which is something the Jets are going to have to consider, because there's no way Scheifele, Hellebuyck, De Melo and Dillon are going to just walk in 2 years time, and I'm not sure any re-sign. Wheeler might stay until he retires, but if the team isn't a contender I'd expect him to get moved too in his last season here.

I know from watching clips of Scheifele's first games in 2011 that the Red Wings were his childhood favourite.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I have no idea what Stevie Y will do, I think that's a hard division to rise to the top of, but adding Scheifele would make it easier to make a play on Copp in the offseason, and all of a sudden that's a solid 2nd line for Detroit, if you add Vrana or Raymond to it. Doing nothing but waiting out the rebuild probably affects the ability to re-sign Dylan Larkin, who is UFA at the end of next year. Wings probably have the best prospect pool to rebuild with, which is something the Jets are going to have to consider, because there's no way Scheifele, Hellebuyck, De Melo and Dillon are going to just walk in 2 years time, and I'm not sure any re-sign. Wheeler might stay until he retires, but if the team isn't a contender I'd expect him to get moved too in his last season here.

I know from watching clips of Scheifele's first games in 2011 that the Red Wings were his childhood favourite.

If you want to get Cossa from DRW you would need to give them Helle. If you also give them Scheifele, there needs to be a lot more coming back. Who do you have in mind?

 

[Guffman]

Especially when Hellebuyck could be on the way out in 2 years too, or less.

Throughout the forums, everyone is worried that Hellebuyck will be leaving the Jets. I expect the Jets will resign him at a fair, long-term deal. If he gets up to 8.5M AAV by then, so be it. No reason to rush Hellebuyck out the door at all.

If Hellebuyck does not want to resign, that's a different story but he has always been bullish about the prospects here in Winnipeg to achieve success.

 

[tbcwpg]

I have no idea what Stevie Y will do, I think that's a hard division to rise to the top of, but adding Scheifele would make it easier to make a play on Copp in the offseason, and all of a sudden that's a solid 2nd line for Detroit, if you add Vrana or Raymond to it. Doing nothing but waiting out the rebuild probably affects the ability to re-sign Dylan Larkin, who is UFA at the end of next year. Wings probably have the best prospect pool to rebuild with, which is something the Jets are going to have to consider, because there's no way Scheifele, Hellebuyck, De Melo and Dillon are going to just walk in 2 years time, and I'm not sure any re-sign. Wheeler might stay until he retires, but if the team isn't a contender I'd expect him to get moved too in his last season here.

I know from watching clips of Scheifele's first games in 2011 that the Red Wings were his childhood favourite.

I'd say the smart move for a team in the Atlantic is to build up assets and get some experience for the youth and wait for the top teams to hopefully decline a bit. Attempting to speed up a rebuild just to compete for 4th or 5th in the division with the likes of Boston, Toronto and Tampa doesn't seem like a smart move, especially if the fanbase is accepting of a rebuilding team.

 

[voyageur]

If you want to get Cossa from DRW you would need to give them Helle. If you also give them Scheifele, there needs to be a lot more coming back. Who do you have in mind?

Cossa might not be NHL ready for a couple of years, so I think by that time Detroit could sign Hellebuyck as a UFA...Scheif and Helly together would be a mega deal, so there would be have to be a lot coming back. And I would leave it to our scouts to decide that one. Detroit is pretty depth poor at centre, so I'm sure a Veleno or Rasmussen would not move the needle much, almost would guarantee that Perfetti becomes a centre here though. Zadina is an underachiever so far as a winger. I don't think Edvinsson would be in play and that's a position of strength for the Jets anyways. That's a tough one. Cossa is the one guy I would want though because I don't see Holm or Berdin as #1 NHL goalies. But also making a trade for a young goalie is dangerous because there are no sure bets on young goalies. Maybe not since Carey Price. Now I just don't know.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Cossa might not be NHL ready for a couple of years, so I think by that time Detroit could sign Hellebuyck as a UFA...Scheif and Helly together would be a mega deal, so there would be have to be a lot coming back. And I would leave it to our scouts to decide that one. Detroit is pretty depth poor at centre, so I'm sure a Veleno or Rasmussen would not move the needle much, almost would guarantee that Perfetti becomes a centre here though. Zadina is an underachiever so far as a winger. I don't think Edvinsson would be in play and that's a position of strength for the Jets anyways. That's a tough one. Cossa is the one guy I would want though because I don't see Holm or Berdin as #1 NHL goalies. But also making a trade for a young goalie is dangerous because there are no sure bets on young goalies. Maybe not since Carey Price. Now I just don't know.

I would want Cossa. Cossa is undeveloped and unproven so there would need to be an add to get Helle. I would also want Raymond. I doubt they include him, even if Scheifele is added.

I really don't see DRW as being that good a trade partner. They have 3 players I would want, Cossa, Raymond and Seider. I don't think there is any way we could get those 3 from them. Even just 1, we would need to give up too much to make it worthwhile.

 

[Jimmyjets]

I would want Cossa. Cossa is undeveloped and unproven so there would need to be an add to get Helle. I would also want Raymond. I doubt they include him, even if Scheifele is added.

I really don't see DRW as being that good a trade partner. They have 3 players I would want, Cossa, Raymond and Seider. I don't think there is any way we could get those 3 from them. Even just 1, we would need to give up too much to make it worthwhile.

I think they could and would move Cossa. Goalies are voodoo and his save percentage isn't trending in the right direction at all. After being .941 in 17 games in his draft year he is down to .910 over 43 games this year which is pretty ordinary and not even in the top 10 in the WHL on a stacked Oil Kings team. Daniel Hauser from the Ice is at .914.

I haven't been following him but maybe he bounces back, or maybe he doesn't and he just flames out as another super big goalie that doesn't make enough saves and relies on pucks hitting him.

I'm sure the Yzerplan was that Cossa would turn into Vasi but he sure doesn't look like he will. Vasi had 1 year with a .910 and that was in the NHL.

 

[surixon]

I think they could and would move Cossa. Goalies are voodoo and his save percentage isn't trending in the right direction at all. After being .941 in 17 games in his draft year he is down to .910 over 43 games this year which is pretty ordinary and not even in the top 10 in the WHL on a stacked Oil Kings team. Daniel Hauser from the Ice is at .914.

I haven't been following him but maybe he bounces back, or maybe he doesn't and he just flames out as another super big goalie that doesn't make enough saves and relies on pucks hitting him.

I'm sure the Yzerplan was that Cossa would turn into Vasi but he sure doesn't look like he will. Vasi had 1 year with a .910 and that was in the NHL.

Also why would we want a goalie that is 3 to 4 years away from being a starter as the main piece for Mark anyhow. If that is your window you might as well sell all of PLD, Conner, Ehlers as well.

 

[blues10]

Let's see 55 play under a new coaching staff before moving on from him. TNSE needs to put butts in the seats. Trading 29 and 55 in back to back years does not help attract the average fan to the rink.

Would trading 55 be better for the team? it could? but it certainly isnt going to appeal to the average fan when this team may have trouble filling seats in the very near future. The average SSH may also see it as some type of rebuild if he was to be moved for prospects and opt out for a few seasons.

This franchsie has been in a desperate need of a new vison behind the bench for a few seasons now. Let that play out 1st and see how Mark responds before moving on. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Jimmyjets]

Let's see 55 play under a new coaching staff before moving on from him. TNSE needs to put butts in the seats. Trading 29 and 55 in back to back years does not help attract the average fan to the rink.

Would trading 55 be better for the team? it could? but it certainly isnt going to appeal to the average fan when this team may have trouble filling seats in the very near future. The average SSH may also see it as some type of rebuild if he was to be moved for prospects and opt out for a few seasons.

This franchsie has been in a desperate need of a new vison behind the bench for a few seasons now. Let that play out 1st and see how Mark responds before moving on. Just my 2 cents.

I agree. When you go to the games the #55 jersey is by far the most popular one IMO. Unless players want out they should run it back with a new coach and see what happens.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think they could and would move Cossa. Goalies are voodoo and his save percentage isn't trending in the right direction at all. After being .941 in 17 games in his draft year he is down to .910 over 43 games this year which is pretty ordinary and not even in the top 10 in the WHL on a stacked Oil Kings team. Daniel Hauser from the Ice is at .914.

I haven't been following him but maybe he bounces back, or maybe he doesn't and he just flames out as another super big goalie that doesn't make enough saves and relies on pucks hitting him.

I'm sure the Yzerplan was that Cossa would turn into Vasi but he sure doesn't look like he will. Vasi had 1 year with a .910 and that was in the NHL.

I think you are putting too much on 1 year's sv%. Cossa has a track record. And you can't directly compare the numbers from 1 league to another. It is pretty normal for teenaged goalies to have those kinds of up and down years. It isn't so normal for any goalies in the W to have numbers like Cossa's previous 2 years. And I have no problem with a goalie being so big that there is no net left to shoot at.

But yes, goalies are voodoo, especially young, undeveloped ones. That's why they would need to add to get Helle. But at least then we would have a potential starter in the system.