Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

[Duke749]

Wow. News flash buddy: My negative opinion of 55's terribly selfish play is shared by a very large mass of fans.
The guy is a complete liability most nights and if you really think other G.M.'s value him like you do: WAKE UP! He ain't the #1 hot shot center we hoped he'd be.
Time to get over your crush on 55 and see reality.

Just because not everyone is openly hating on Scheif nonstop, doesn’t mean they’re not critical of him or they have a “crush” on him. I’m not sure there’s a poster on this board that hasn’t criticized him at least once this year. Your childish antics are honestly getting old and perhaps having actual discussions would give your posts a sliver of credibility.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Why don't you see Perfetti as a centre? Size?

I didn't say I didn't. Just not confident one way or the other yet. Size could be a factor. So could skating. Or maybe he is fine there. Just don't know yet.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'd say many on here are overvaluing 55's value.
He's turned into a player who despite getting top line minutes, is dominated all over the ice and cannot be counted on to make the right play or decision at any crucial moment.
Floater.

Yup. And in spite of that, he is still a ppg 1C.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

55 is not a #1 center.
Maybe on a poor team.
Any Stanley Cup contending team has a #1 center who is a true leader both on and off the ice and pays just as much attention to defense as offense.
55 is none of those.

Then I won't trade him to your team.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Those referring to 55 as the point per game center fail to see who he really has become.
He is at or near the top in ice time, is not a leader, makes foolish plays nearly every game, displays a lazy effort and is a minus player.
He should be getting a point per game as he is given #1 pp time and ice time galore.

And he does get his ppg. How many players do that?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The issue is he's having a negative overall effect on the team. So you either take a loss on trade value to improve the team overall, or you keep him and hope he improves in his own zone (and the NZ). You can't look at it entirely as getting full transactional value.

True, though my version of full value might be different than yours. But if we don't find the right buyer, we can fall back on hoping the new coach can light a fire under his butt.

People saying he is not a 1C are really saying he is not an elite 1C, or a top 10 1C. He is not. But he is still a ppg 1C - with warts. But the good thing is that the warts are just about getting him engaged. He is still capable of being that elite 1C if he will just try.

 

[Teemusalami204]

I’ve been harping on shief for years now. I’m glad I’m not alone anymore.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I’m really confused what point you’re trying to make based on my post. I’m just saying move Scheifele now because his value will never be higher. With or without him we’re not contending.
I think Scheifele can net a solid top 6 forward and a top 2 D prospect. This is the NHL.

That's the part I agreed with. The part I did not agree with is the part where you say we need someone to hold the fort while Perfetti develops. Then you said we won't contend in that time anyway. So why need the guy to hold the fort?

If Perfetti is going to develop into a top 6 C, I don't think it will take him long. I think he is a quick learner. Meantime, If we need someone for a year, make do.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I didn't say I didn't. Just not confident one way or the other yet. Size could be a factor. So could skating. Or maybe he is fine there. Just don't know yet.

so you are not sure either way. I’m just curious.

 

[HHel]

I think this gets kind of overblown…..

This is the time table.

Jets with Wheeler out = 0-0-1
Jets with Scheifele + Wheeler out = 4-0-0
Jets with Scheifele out = 0-0-1
Jets with Scheifele and Wheeler back for the next two weeks = 5-1-1

So yes the Jets had success while they were in COVID protocol but they also had success when they were out of Covid protocol.

Yep, team played great hockey, when they were back at the lineup at playing in 3rd line. Everything went offroad, when Maurice forsed them back to the 1st line and here is the result of that. Team indentity changed at that point.

 

[johnnyonthspot]

If they do move him, I like the idea of getting a Top 6 player and a skilled young player (similar to eichel deal). Something like Laf/Kakko + Strome would be something I would have to think hard about, the lineup with those 2 minus scheif looks pretty good.

Connor - Dubois - Svechnikov
Ehlers - Strome - Wheeler
Lafreniere - Perfetti - Appleton
Sanford - Lowry - Gustafsson

very deep and could run 4 lines

I like that thinking. Chevy has to make this a 4 line team, that forechecks and plays hard. Enough of this 3 line crap with 2 guys getting 20 to 24 minutes a game.
A Scheifele trade should allow that too happen.

 

[ps241]

Wow. News flash buddy: My negative opinion of 55's terribly selfish play is shared by a very large mass of fans.
The guy is a complete liability most nights and if you really think other G.M.'s value him like you do: WAKE UP! He ain't the #1 hot shot center we hoped he'd be.
Time to get over your crush on 55 and see reality.

I hope you are not in sales.

 

[rkp]

55 is a -19

 

[boydkc]

Schiefele should not be a centre anymore and the jets need a scoring right winger.

Ehlers, Dubois, Wheeler, Bjorkstrand
Connor, Perfetti, Schiefele
Sanford, Lowry, Appleton, Wheeler
Gustafson, Toninato, Barron, Appleton
Harkins, Suess, Poganski

Morrisey,Demelo
Heinola, Pionk
Samberg ,schmidt
Stanley, Kovacevic
Chisholm, Gawanke

we need a couple forwards Donskoi is a UFA is Seattle and Toews in Chicago.

Or make some trades Vesalainen, Dillon should get us a couple of forwards another big right winger with some scoring touch would be nice I would also like to see if they can get a Bjorkstrand out of Columbus maybe Vesalainen and Dillon could get that done. then Wheeler could be moved further down the lineup where he should be.

 

[Ducky10]

That's the part I agreed with. The part I did not agree with is the part where you say we need someone to hold the fort while Perfetti develops. Then you said we won't contend in that time anyway. So why need the guy to hold the fort?

If Perfetti is going to develop into a top 6 C, I don't think it will take him long. I think he is a quick learner. Meantime, If we need someone for a year, make do.

To help take pressure off him. It’s not about contending, it’s about allowing him some time to develop without having to carry too much of the load. He’s still only played a handful of games in the league. I’m also not convinced his future is as a top 6 C, and with 2 already in the lineup, it doesn’t need to be.
It might make contending the following year more feasible.

 

[BigZ65]

That LA SHG was a perfect encapsulation of his play right now. Just needed to take one more stride inside Kempe and he takes that puck himself to start the PP breakout. Instead he stops skating takes one stride away from the play to the other side of our own net, watches the puck and has a great view of a GA.

At times I’ve felt that he’s pushing for offense more and not getting turned over to defense or taking risks at the blue lines, now it’s just pure lack of effort. If he’d be aggressive on the puck and take risks that way I could respect it more.

 

[BigZ65]

Schiefele should not be a centre anymore and the jets need a scoring right winger.

Ehlers, Dubois, Wheeler, Bjorkstrand
Connor, Perfetti, Schiefele
Sanford, Lowry, Appleton, Wheeler
Gustafson, Toninato, Barron, Appleton
Harkins, Suess, Poganski

Morrisey,Demelo
Heinola, Pionk
Samberg ,schmidt
Stanley, Kovacevic
Chisholm, Gawanke

we need a couple forwards Donskoi is a UFA is Seattle and Toews in Chicago.

Or make some trades Vesalainen, Dillon should get us a couple of forwards another big right winger with some scoring touch would be nice I would also like to see if they can get a Bjorkstrand out of Columbus maybe Vesalainen and Dillon could get that done. then Wheeler could be moved further down the lineup where he should be.

Vesalainen might be worth a conditional 7th or career AHLer like himself.

 

[GaryPoppins]

This is JMO, but I think a player like Mark could put up more pts, not less, by playing a 200' game. It means he is not spending so many shifts hemmed in his own end. It means his side has possession of the puck more and it is very hard to score when the other team has the puck.

It may be counterintuitive to some. They obviously expect to score more by cheating for offense. But I don't think it necessarily works that way. Hockey is so much a team game that it is team play, not selfish play, that leads to goals for as well as fewer goals against.

Case and point, Ehlers’ goal last night is a result of defensive back pressure by 25. Good defence creates offense!

 

[Channelcat]

Schiefele should not be a centre anymore and the jets need a scoring right winger.

Ehlers, Dubois, Wheeler, Bjorkstrand
Connor, Perfetti, Schiefele
Sanford, Lowry, Appleton, Wheeler
Gustafson, Toninato, Barron, Appleton
Harkins, Suess, Poganski

Morrisey,Demelo
Heinola, Pionk
Samberg ,schmidt
Stanley, Kovacevic
Chisholm, Gawanke

we need a couple forwards Donskoi is a UFA is Seattle and Toews in Chicago.

Or make some trades Vesalainen, Dillon should get us a couple of forwards another big right winger with some scoring touch would be nice I would also like to see if they can get a Bjorkstrand out of Columbus maybe Vesalainen and Dillon could get that done. then Wheeler could be moved further down the lineup where he should be.

Good point. He really doesn't play like a center.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

To help take pressure off him. It’s not about contending, it’s about allowing him some time to develop without having to carry too much of the load. He’s still only played a handful of games in the league. I’m also not convinced his future is as a top 6 C, and with 2 already in the lineup, it doesn’t need to be.
It might make contending the following year more feasible.

I'm not convinced either, but I am open to being convinced.

Which 2 already in the lineup? The whole conversation around Perfetti as a top 6 C is centred on replacing Scheifele there. That leaves PLD.

If Perfetti is ever going to be a C in the NHL he needs to start playing that position sometime. If he needs another year at W first then plug anyone you like into 2C. You already said we aren't going anywhere in that year anyway.

What I don't want to do is spend the return value from a major trade on a player who has a short half life with us while Perfetti develops. That is frittering away the trade value.

 

[Ducky10]

I'm not convinced either, but I am open to being convinced.

Which 2 already in the lineup? The whole conversation around Perfetti as a top 6 C is centred on replacing Scheifele there. That leaves PLD.

If Perfetti is ever going to be a C in the NHL he needs to start playing that position sometime. If he needs another year at W first then plug anyone you like into 2C. You already said we aren't going anywhere in that year anyway.

What I don't want to do is spend the return value from a major trade on a player who has a short half life with us while Perfetti develops. That is frittering away the trade value.

Who said anything about a player with a short half life?

 

[barrywpg]

I'd really like to know what's going on in MSs mind. As a person he just doesn't seem to have any joy (last I saw was when they beat TO) Doesn't seem like he is unhappy either - just nothing. I think the clinical term is flat affect. Does he want out of Wpg? Haven't heard of any rumours of trade request - but I don't think he's said that he wants to stay either. I hope Chevy has some idea of what he's thinking.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Who said anything about a player with a short half life?

I mentioned Perfetti because he’s highly unlikely to be that guy in the next year, maybe two. It’s highlighting the reason they need to get someone who can reasonably fill a top 6 role to help take pressure off him and PLD, because like him or not, that’s what Scheifele allows. What other moves are the Jets going to make that brings in a top 6 C? I wouldn’t be moving any prospects to do it at this stage.

The getting someone to take the pressure off Perfetti seemed to imply that. A temp to give Perfetti more time. If it is not a temp, then Perfetti is not in the C conversation at all and what are we talking about?

The possibilities are endless. Helle for a top 6 C and Scheifele for a starting goalie.
Dillon and Schmidt for picks. The picks somewhere for a prospect. We have enough D prospects that we can part with one or two. Put a package together. If we keep Wheeler, he can play C for a non-contending year or two. Endless.

 

[tbcwpg]

That LA SHG was a perfect encapsulation of his play right now. Just needed to take one more stride inside Kempe and he takes that puck himself to start the PP breakout. Instead he stops skating takes one stride away from the play to the other side of our own net, watches the puck and has a great view of a GA.

At times I’ve felt that he’s pushing for offense more and not getting turned over to defense or taking risks at the blue lines, now it’s just pure lack of effort. If he’d be aggressive on the puck and take risks that way I could respect it more.

Maybe the Evans thing took a lot of that out of him. He wasn't great defensively before but at least he looked like he was trying.

 

[FonRiesen]

Maybe the Evans thing took a lot of that out of him. He wasn't great defensively before but at least he looked like he was trying.

I think that fiasco was part of it. It was like the first time he actually skated 100% to back check, and then gets punished for it. And beyond the NHL's response, the shameful treatment of his family by "fans" would traumatize most people.