Marc Bergevin Press Conference 1 PM

[417]

Delusional is thinking anyone anywhere gives someone a 6 million dollar contract while hoping they don't actually end up under contract.

You'd be surprised how many people actually believe that this is what happened.

 

[Sorinth]

I sincerely think Bergevin is a good guy that wears his heart on his sleeve. Maybe too good of a guy. I remember when the 2005 draft came around, Benoit Pouliot had his fans within the org. But it’s Gainey who put his foot down and had the team draft Price. Bergevin liked Reilly in 2012, but let Timmins choose Chucky. In 2018, he liked Brady (or Quinn can’t remember), but let Timmins pick KK.

Maybe, just maybe Bergevin should do like Bob and put his foot down at the table. Heck, he seems a better judge of talent than his gym partner.

I wrote this in jest btw. Half joking.

Pouliot was drafted 4th overall, we had the 5th overall.

 

[Belial]

For 85 ES minutes...TOTAL.

Which represented his most "consistent" linemates.

Somehow, you think this proves he had some stability this year.

Man, you keep bringing that stat over and over again but that's not the damn point.

He played with one or the other for the majority of the year while having Armia or Perry on the other wing.

That's good linemates to have stop acting as if he played with Belzile and Weal the entire year.

 

[salbutera]

I sincerely think Bergevin is a good guy that wears his heart on his sleeve. Maybe too good of a guy. I remember when the 2005 draft came around, Benoit Pouliot had his fans within the org. But it’s Gainey who put his foot down and had the team draft Price. Bergevin liked Reilly in 2012, but let Timmins choose Chucky. In 2018, he liked Brady (or Quinn can’t remember), but let Timmins pick KK.

Maybe, just maybe Bergevin should do like Bob and put his foot down at the table. Heck, he seems a better judge of talent than his gym partner.

I wrote this in jest btw. Half joking.

Bob Gainey himself said on Mitch Melnick’s show last year, the guy they wanted & were going to draft was Pouloit, but Minny took him one pick ahead and Gainey was unable to move up in the draft so they settled for Price. Gainey’s own words...

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Always draft the best player available. Will MB/Timmins ever learn?

Or, in Timmins' case, just draft the best D available if uncertain. Timmins has a much better record drafting Dmen than forwards, especially centers. Will Poehling or Evans be his first successful Centers? In the meantime, stop throwing picks out the window on centers!

I heavy blame Timmins but I wouldnt be surprised if Bergevin is actually deciding the player to pick. Dude loves to control everything. I still can't believe they went for Mailloux. I know he doesnt give a shit cause he said he just want to finish his contract and leave but man that was just so dumb with the drama , god they knew it was coming they even had already a pr ready

 

[dinodebino]

Bob Gainey himself said on Mitch Melnick’s show last year, the guy they wanted & were going to draft was Pouloit, but Minny took him one pick ahead and Gainey was unable to move up in the draft so they settled for Price. Gainey’s own words...

Then I went too far. Apologies. But that was an half serious post. It was more a crticism of Timmins.

So Bob and Timmins wanted Pouliot???Ciboire, c’est pire!!!!

Fun fact: worked with Pouliot’s bro. Serious dude. Nice, but verry serious.

 

[Archijerej]

That makes no sense, why would they not be willing to offer a 1st and 3rd when it means that they would be able to sign KK long term for less. You can argue maybe argue they weren't willing to go beyond a 1st and 3rd because they valued any extras more then cap space but even that is a stretch. A trade is always going to be preferable to an offer sheet because the only way the offer sheet isn't accepted is by overpaying by a lot.

They might have wanted the player, but not for the price of compensation. It would add to the argument that, once we rejected the trade, the ultimate offer sheet was merely designed to mess up our cap and that the Hurricanes hoped we would match.

 

[dinodebino]

Pouliot was drafted 4th overall, we had the 5th overall.

Yeah, I stand corrected.

 

[salbutera]

Loving your team, and I do and probably for longer than you, doesn't mean we have to agree with the way the team is run.

I'm of the school of thought that building a solid foundation needs a real rooted plan of developing organic talent. You cannot win by trading and buying players. That's how it's been since the foundation of the league, aside from 1 or 2 outlier teams a la 1994 Rags.

I won't delve into the glorious past of this team, even though all tradition-rich pro sports organisations do maintain a certain decorum proper to its roots (Packers, Man U, Steelers, Yanks, etc.).

Montreal (and it was shown here), is just not 'gifted' in drafting and developing home-grown talent. It just can't do it. Inexplicably.

See, Lou Lamoriello always said that he modeled his organisations on that of the Montreal Canadiens of old. Some younger posters here find Lou's method to be arcane, old-fashioned. Yet, I consider Lou to be the best GM in the league, and probably one of the top 5 in the history of the league. And players RESPECT his methods.

This is exactly what should happen to this organisation. Because that's in this organisation's DNA. Just like the Packers, the Steelers, the Yanks and others have theirs and abide by it through thick and thin.

Under this management team, all I see is improv. Good improv. Great reality TV, TBH. I mean, we ARE entertained. All the time. I have fun with this, it's really entertaining to see this organisation go to an unexpected Cup Final, then unexpectedly draft the 2021 Black Sheep of minor hockey (to the dismay of all in the hockey world), then lose their alledged 2nd centre to a welfare organisation, before trading for a solid centre.

I mean, it's solid Reality TV. Lucky that Montreal Media is tame these days. I mean, that would have warranted a full season of Lance et Compte from Réjeaune.

I know you guys think he's a very capable VP of hockey ops. And Molson seems to agree to a certain degree (although three years is a bit of a 'kiss of death' contract for such an experienced guy). I don't.

You know what? I think the tables have turned. I think Lou Lamoriello SHOULD NOW be the model for this organisation. Because that's the Habs I used to know. One that had a good grasp of its DNA. Of its raison d'être.

What we lived this summer (Cup Run), for 70% of this forum, was unique. For us farts it was a blast from the past, the most fun we had in decades. And we had the internets to share it with others!!! What we lived this summer was exciting for all (although you seemed detached for most of the run, at least from this forum - that seemed united in positivity for once). But it shouldn't be just a unique run. It should be something that can happen a lot more times.

It's funny, I hear people write on this forum : "well, you know, it's not like the old days where there were 20 teams in the league. We have 32 teams now." And I agree. But why is it seemingly easy for a small organisation like Tampa Bay to be dominant in the middle part of the 2000's with a couple of superstars like St-Louis and Lecavalier and THEN rise again from the ashes in the 2010-2020's and win two more cups (poised to win more) with another generation of uber talented players? Why? Why can't it be the Montreal f***ing Canadiens? The Yankees seem to do it all the time. A franchise that had as many World Series as we had Cups when baseball had no more than twentysomething teams. Yet, they still do produce competitive and contending teams.

These organisations do it because they respect their DNA. They know that in order to win, you need to have developed a stable, multi generational identity, and stick to it. At all costs. The Montreal Canadiens were known for developing organically. Tampa does it. The Yanks (and they do go after big UFAs, and spend like crazy) too. All winning franchises do it the right way.

We have become the Dallas Cowboys of hockey : we spend through the roof, but we don't develop home-grown talent. We try to win strickly by trade or UFAs. That is not the Montreal Canadiens I know.

So that is why Bergevin failed in my opinion (just that of a single fan). The fabric of this team has always been to develop its core. He had a great start when he came in. It derailed.

Cheers.

95% of players willingly want to play for Yankees, Red Sox, Man U, Real etc.

Almost zero % top end talent want anything to do with playing for Mtl. As every talking head said leading up to UFA this summer, there’s never been more lack of interest in playing in Canada than this year.

Someone who’s an alcoholic has to first come to terms with their alcoholism. Similarly the Mtl Canadiens need yo accept they represent a shithole locale in the eyes of NHL elite players and accept the only path to success is the Expos player drafting & development model

 

[417]

Man, you keep bringing that stat over and over again but that's not the damn point.

It is the point when you keep framing it in a disingenuous way.

He played with one or the other for the majority of the year while having Armia or Perry on the other wing.

No actually lol that's the point...he did not play the majority of the year with one or the other...

He spent the majority of the year playing with SEVERAL players. Toffoli and Anderson just happen to be the 2 players he played with the most within that framework.

Even Jake Evans benefitted from more stable linemates.

You can maintain your position while acknowledging that this may have affected him.

I'm not sure why you're dying on this hill. You were just talking about nuanced discussion, well here's a nuance you're blatantly ignoring just to maintain your position .

good linemates to have stop acting as if he played with Belzile and Weal the entire year.

I never argued he didn't have good linemates...I argued he had no stable linemates.

You know...stability, the same thing every other center on this team was afforded.

All KK got was the coaching staff recycling the coldest wingers from the top 6 onto his line.

 

[dinodebino]

95% of players willingly want to play for Yankees, Red Sox, Man U, Real etc.

Almost zero % top end talent want anything to do with playing for Mtl. As every talking head said leading up to UFA this summer, there’s never been more lack of interest in playing in Canada than this year.

Someone who’s an alcoholic has to first come to terms with their alcoholism

Drafting, Sal. Organic growth is drafting. Trades are fun, but should be to complement. Yanks draft and develop well. So do the Packers. And the Bolts.

Montreal wheels and deals. Bergevin is the GM that wheels and deals the most in the league. Has to : his organisation can’t draft and develop properly, as you have demonstrated here not too long ago.

 

[salbutera]

Drafting, Sal. Organic growth is drafting. Trades are fun, but should be to complement. Yanks draft and develop well. So do the Packers. And the Bolts.

Not complement - Mtl Expos drafting & development model is the ONLY path

Complete internal focus - but the process only starts with acceptance of reality. Mtl is viewed as a shithole in the eyes of top end NHL players

Gainey thought his gravitas could woo players, until Hossa & Sundin told him to pound sand. MB also thought being a former player and all around good locker room guy he’d be able to influence players ...won’t happen players are all business now.

 

[Habby4Life]

I thought MB did a good job with today’s presser. He answered the questions thoughtfully and seemed very open and honest.

As far as KK goes, he admitted they make mistakes but also pointed out development is also on the player.

 

[dinodebino]

Not complement - Mtl Expos drafting & development model is the ONLY path

Complete internal focus - but the process only starts with acceptance of reality. Mtl is viewed as a shithole in the eyes of top end NHL players

This. 1000 au cube. VP of hockey ops knows this, yet can’t execute the Expos plan.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Delusional is thinking anyone anywhere gives someone a 6 million dollar contract while hoping they don't actually end up under contract.

You are really struggling with comprehension here.......

This was Dundon's idea, not Waddell's. Dundon is a buffoon who knows nothing about hockey and has clearly forced his GM who would never agree to such an idiotic scheme into exacting his backwoods revenge.

You have to be utterly delusional to believe that Don Waddell was itching to give a 5 goal scorer 6.1 million after taking the entire summer to ink a far superior player in Svechnikov to slightly more. I was listening to the Fan 590 last week and a former colleague of Waddell's was on and stated that none of this is consistent with Waddell's philosophies and this was certainly the will of an embarrassed and angry owner.

The levels of intellectual dishonesty that MB haters will sink to is absolutely gross but this world seems to be full of people looking to fabricate their own realities nowadays.

Please direct your delusions elsewhere.

 

[Belial]

It is the point when you keep framing it in a disingenuous way.


No actually lol that's the point...he did not play the majority of the hear with one or the other...

He spent the majority of the year playing with SEVERAL players. Toffoli and Anderson just happen to be the 2 players he played with the most within that framework.

Even Make Evans benefitted from more stable linemates.



I never argued he didn't have good linemates...I argued he had no stable linemates.

You know...stability, the same thing every other center on this team was afforded.

You're seriously making this way too difficult.

Suzuki got his linemates shifted over and over also the whole year but he remained somewhat consistent in his production.

If your whole idea is that we didn't cuddle him enough then good riddance.

A good center should be able to make his wingers better and not the other way around.

Just the fact that you keep talking about his wingers shows me that you don't really believe he's a good center.

If he needs great wingers to carry him then what are we even talking about here?

 

[MaynardJames]

If Molson says no rebuild, no trading vets for picks what else can Bergevin do ? Exactly what he does. Which is why I am fine with him. I wish we would do better in drafting and developing but let's be real, another GM and things can get uglier real fast.

I love how he dealt with KK. He was trying to sign him and KK made up his mind he was gone, play hard to get, sign elsewhere and we get the best return possible in the situation without screwing up the salary structure. Dvorak to me is better than KK and Danault united. Poehling seem in the mix to be the third which is nice. I think he will surprise. We have other option in case it doesn't work. The defense is our weakest link but our strength in the prospect pool so it should all work out sooner than later. Will root for them again next year. Too bad for those stuck in hating our team.

 

[417]

You're seriously making this way too difficult.

Suzuki got his linemates shifted over and over also the whole year but he remained somewhat consistent in his production.

Yet the total ice time of HIS most consistent wingers tripled that of KKs.

Math don't add up my man.

If your whole idea is that we didn't cuddle him enough then good riddance.

A good center should be able to make his wingers better and not the other way around.

If he wasn't a good center...then why was he graduated to the NHL at 18? Why has he spent the majority of his time in the NHL if he's no good?

Why did another team send a 6.1M offer sheet?

Hell...maybe you're right and he's no good.

I would just like to see him in a role, the role they had drafted him for, before I can be definitive about that.

Just the fact that you keep talking about his wingers shows me that you don't really believe he's a good center.

I keep talking about the instability and bad decisions surrounding his development.

If he needs great wingers to carry him then what are we even talking about here?

An 18-19-20 year old kid that the Habs weren't ready for and that they rushed to the NHL.

That's his fault?

 

[Belial]

Yet the total ice time of HIS most consistent wingers tripled that of KKs.

Math don't add up my man.


If he wasn't a good center...then why was he graduated to the NHL at 18? Why has he spent the majority of his time in the NHL if he's no good?

Why did another team send a 6.1M offer sheet?

Hell...maybe you're right and he's no good.

I would just like to see him in a role, the role they had drafted him for, before I can be definitive about that.


I keep talking about the instability and bad decisions surrounding his development.


An 18-19-20 year old kid that the Habs weren't ready for and that they rushed to the NHL.

That's his fault?

Just tell me how come he did worse in his third year with better linemates than he did in his rookie year?

Is that on the coaches in your opinion?

 

[417]

Just tell me how come he did worse in his third year with better linemates than he did in his rookie year?

Is that on the coaches in your opinion?

I don't think he did worse...he was on par with his rookie season. Things went down hill the last 15 games or so but for the majority of the year he was contributing on par with how he was being used.

I just don't know what you were expecting given the roles than Danault and Suzuki played?

That's not necessarily on the coaches, they coached to win and for them, KK wasn't a big part of the solution to winning.

I mean just look at all the players in the NHL who played a similar role with similar minutes.

Their production with roughly all the same...20-30pts.

 

[Belial]

I don't think he did worse...he was on par with his rookie season. Things went down hill the last 15 games or so but for the majority of the year he was contributing on par with how he was being used.

I just don't know what you were expecting given the roles than Danault and Suzuki played?

That's not necessarily on the coaches, they coached to win and for them, KK wasn't a big part of the solution to winning.

What I was expecting?

I was expecting him to do better than 34 points in his rookie season with worse conditions? Don't you think that's reasonable?

 

[417]

What I was expecting?

I was expecting him to do better than 34 points in his rookie season with worse conditions? Don't you think that's reasonable?

Given the role he was asked to play...yes that's is unreasonable.

You expected more because of his draft status...but they're the ones who drafted him 3rd overall...they're the ones who signalled to us that he's an exceptional player when they graduated him as a recently turned 18yr old who had actually never played center for any sustained amount of time in Finland.

If last year was his rookie year, like it should have been, you'd be singing an entirely different tune.

 

[Belial]

Given the role he was asked to play...yes that's is unreasonable.

You expected more because of his draft status...but they're the ones who drafted him 3rd overall...they're the ones who signalled to us that he's an exceptional player when they graduated him as a recently turned 18yr old who had actually never played center for any sustained amount of time in Finland.

If last year was his rookie year, like it should have been, you'd be singing an entirely different tune.

How is that unreasonable man? You make little sense once again.

He managed to put up 34 points playing with Snake and Armia as an 18-year-old rookie and then couldn't do better after two years in basically the same role but with better linemates and more ice time.

 

[Heffyhoof]

It's sickening that the clown might get an extension. Dvorak is a good but not great player with almost no remaining upside. Defense will be the same or worse, and apart from Suzuki and Caufield's hoped for improvements, the forward core has been downgraded. We've got Ghule, Norlinder, and Primeau as really good prospects but the rest are basically the middle tier most teams have. As far as I can see, mediocrity for another few years at minimum.

 

[417]

How is that unreasonable man? You make little sense once again.

It's unreasonable because you're expecting him to do produce more than his peers, the guys who played similar roles and had similar ice time across the league.

Once more, he produced what other 3rd line players produced across the league.

3rd line ice time = 3rd line production.

You're expecting:

3rd line ice time = top 6 production.

He managed to put up 34 points playing with Snake and Armia as an 18-year-old rookie and then couldn't do better after two years in basically the same role but with better linemates and more ice time.

Perhaps he benefitted from the stability??