The Sun: Maple Leafs on trial; heads may roll. Just about everything in question.

[Racer88]

Has any team had this amount of talent up front? Genuine question.

This may have only been tried once because it hasn't been available to anyone else.

They may have lots of talent in those 4 players but the cost of those 4 kill the rest of the team.
in my opinion as talented as they are on an individual basis they are not a good “team together”.
I am genuinely curious as to why you think they are playing so bad?

 

[sparxx87]

It is a failure because with the top 5 contracts, in order, Matthews, Tavares, marner, Rielly, Nylander the team is losing, and playing like they don't know what their system is beyond try and score.

How may of the top players can you point at and say, "he took the team on his back and willed it to victory" in the season that counts?

It looks like they don't have that player.

And yes, that is on Dubas. He was gifted the core of the team, and that core doesn't appear to have it.

It is / was up to Dubas to bring in players that are better than their core when it comes to leadership and compete. He didn't do that. He had too much faith in their existing regular season champs.

That is where the blame Dubas should lie.

Like this, you mean? You'd be right - sometimes you need a few players that will drag the boys into the fight.

Watching Kadri and Komorov on this shift brings a tear to my eye. It was beautiful.

 

[ToneDog]

They may have lots of talent in those 4 players but the cost of those 4 kill the rest of the team.
in my opinion as talented as they are on an individual basis they are not a good “team together”.
I am genuinely curious as to why you think they are playing so bad?

No killer instinct as per Shanny. If just one of them did, we would have won a few rounds by now.

 

[Racer88]

Just looking for a team with

Top 3 player (was probably considered 2nd before this slide)
Top 5 winger (was probably top 3 before this slide)
Top 20 center (assuming closer to 15th)
Top 20 winger (assuming closer to 15th)

In an ideal situation, we have a Boston or Colorado scenario where the stars break out after their contract, not before. That didn't happen though.

My favorite thing is most people can't remember things that happened last week but they claim they remember with crystal clarity how the team played last season to start and this start is different.

And when, not if, they go on a winning streak, these same folks claiming to fire everyone will say the wins don't matter. This is never about the teams play or potential. This is just fans having hissy fits because they didn't get what they wanted over the summer which was blood.

I think most fans just want a winning team

No killer instinct as per Shanny. If just one of them did, we would have won a few rounds by now.

if they don’t have it by now they never will

 

[ToneDog]

Like this, you mean?

Watching Kadri and Komorov on this shift brings a tear to my eye. It was beautiful.

Will always remember that hit on OV thinking if he knocked him out we could win the series.

We traded that guy for Kerfoot and a year of Barrie. That brings tears to many Leafs fans' eyes.

 

[ToneDog]

I think most fans just want a winning team

if they don’t have it by now they never will

Not according to Shanny. He also says this group will win a cup.

 

[Racer88]

Not according to Shanny. He also says this group will win a cup.

Shanny is so oblivious to reality it’s not funny. For what ever reason he has allowed Dubas to gut any character out of this team in a failed attempt to keep this expensive 4 forwards together.
we don’t have to look any further then the goalie fiasco the last few years to see Dubas’s incompetence

 

[killer1980]

The goaltending is better at least, ri

Matthews was 100% overpaid at the time of his signing

He's lived up/outperformed the deal in 2 years and was unable to live up to the deal in 2019-2020

So far having a slow start this year but should be around 100 pts by year end and top 3 in rocket so likely lives up to it

We should have gotten 8 full years at 11.634

He had basically no accomplishments when be signed the deal both team and personal outside the Calder.

His individual production wasn't ever top 10 in pts or ppg on his ELC

If we wanted to pay him what he'd be worth in his prime 11.634 was fine but we shouldn't have given up 3 years of cost control at that

Should have been 8 year term

Matthews will coast this year and turn it on next year for those big U.S. $$$$$. If ever there was a guy that looked like he didn't want to be here it's him. Sure, Toronto is hockey's Mecca but, not to him. T.O. means nothing to him. In fact, now that he is being pissed on by the fans only makes him less interested.

Marner has to go. He was instrumental in helping get rid of Babcock and it seems pretty obvious that Keefe will be moving on. You cannot have the hens rule the roost. He was become as great a liability as Kadri who I certainly like a lot more.

 

[TribalPhoenix]

You have to use cap hit %, not total dollars.


Playoff TOI

View attachment 601825


It was reported $8 million.

Nylander's camp appears stuck on $8M AAV - TSN.ca

Restricted free agent William Nylander said Thursday in Sweden that he's staying out of contract talks and allowing his agent to handle negotiations with the Toronto Maple Leafs. According to TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger, Nylander’s agent, Lewis Gross, has yet to drop his initial ask of more...

www.tsn.ca

1) OK, fine - let's use % of cap.

McDavid signed @ 12.5M$ when the cap was 80M$ = 15.625% of the cap for 8 seasons (through 25/26 season)
Matthews signed @ 11.6M$ when cap was 81.5M$ = 14.23% of the cap for 5 seasons (through 23/24).

So a difference of 1.4% of the cap hit more for McDavid, but you get him for 3 MORE YEARS! And McDavid is the best player on the GD planet. That is NOT a good negotiation by any stretch of the imagination.

2) I probably should have been more specific that he was playing top-4 minutes at EVEN STRENGTH, but I figured that went without saying for anyone who knows the player. Check ES TOI.

3) Yeah, also reported he wanted 7M$. Dubas caved, and again, with a 6 year deal, walks him RIGHT to UFA.

[URL unfurl ="true"]https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-nylander-negotiations-boil-down-to-what-papa-wants/[/URL]

 

[sxvnert]

3) Yeah, also reported he wanted 7M$. Dubas caved, and again, with a 6 year deal, walks him RIGHT to UFA.

To make matters worse, that last season is covered by a NMC. Once that kicks in, Matthews can hold the leafs hostage with any demand he wants, otherwise he walks to free agency (another Tavares situation).

 

[colchar]

Has any team had this amount of talent up front? Genuine question.

This may have only been tried once because it hasn't been available to anyone else.

Of course.

Never heard of the '80s Oilers?

 

[TribalPhoenix]

To make matters worse, that last season is covered by a NMC. Once that kicks in, Matthews can hold the leafs hostage with any demand he wants, otherwise he walks to free agency (another Tavares situation).

Wouldn't shock me. Very easy for them to say "nope, we're not resigning with you, so trade us to a contender - and we pick our landing spot to increase our UFA offers".

Incompetence on a scary scale.

 

[Legendary]

Like this, you mean? You'd be right - sometimes you need a few players that will drag the boys into the fight.

Watching Kadri and Komorov on this shift brings a tear to my eye. It was beautiful.

Look At Kadri. Thanks for nothing Dubass

 

[notbias]

1) OK, fine - let's use % of cap.

McDavid signed @ 12.5M$ when the cap was 80M$ = 15.625% of the cap for 8 seasons (through 25/26 season)
Matthews signed @ 11.6M$ when cap was 81.5M$ = 14.23% of the cap for 5 seasons (through 23/24).

So a difference of 1.4% of the cap hit more for McDavid, but you get him for 3 MORE YEARS! And McDavid is the best player on the GD planet. That is NOT a good negotiation by any stretch of the imagination.

McDavid's cap hit % was 16.67

Matthews' was 14.64

so basically a 2 point difference.

2) I probably should have been more specific that he was playing top-4 minutes at EVEN STRENGTH, but I figured that went without saying for anyone who knows the player. Check ES TOI.

ES TOI is now how we dictate who is a top 4? That varies heavily from game to game, seems like a VERY flawed way to look at things, might want to re-think that.

3) Yeah, also reported he wanted 7M$. Dubas caved, and again, with a 6 year deal, walks him RIGHT to UFA.

[URL unfurl ="true"]Nylander negotiations boil down to what Papa wants[/URL]

You may want to actually read the article, it doesn't say he was asking for 7.

Of course.

Never heard of the '80s Oilers?

*when there was a salary cap

Sorry, just was implying that it is hard for a team to replicate our cap allocation because I don't think any team has had the same talent in the cap era.

 

[notbias]

Look At Kadri. Thanks for nothing Dubass

 

[Legion34]

Im On the record as concerned with how they have played. The only thing that matters this season is getting Matthews decision

You do everything to convince him to sign. Then the window lasts a long time. You can rebuild around him. Worst case he wants out and you deal him.

Most likely they play 100 pts. Get in and roll the dice. If not… all bets are off

 

[Legendary]

Kadri- 1 cup
The "big" 4- 0 playoff rounds won

 

[notbias]

Kadri- 1 cup
The "big" 4- 0 playoff rounds won

Ah yes, hockey is the best example of an individual sport.

 

[Pebble live]

Like this, you mean? You'd be right - sometimes you need a few players that will drag the boys into the fight.

Watching Kadri and Komorov on this shift brings a tear to my eye. It was beautiful.

Dubas hated this shift and made sure Kadri and uncle Leo were gone shortly after. I'll admit Leos contract with the Islanders didn't age well.

But I can't f***ing believe this is what we had at one point. Those were players left over from Lou's time as GM. Lou made some iffy trades and signings as well. But Dubas has killed this team and this cities love for it.

 

[Legion34]

Dubas hated this shift and made sure Kadri and uncle Leo were gone shortly after. I'll admit Leos contract with the Islanders didn't age well.

But I can't f***ing believe this is what we had at one point. Those were players left over from Lou's time as GM. Lou made some iffy trades and signings as well. But Dubas has killed this team and this cities love for it.

Just to be clear…. How many rounds did we win with all these great players?

 

[Gabriel426]

Sorry, just was implying that it is hard for a team to replicate our cap allocation because I don't think any team has had the same talent in the cap era.

I think TB got better talents than us and they managed the cap fine. Pls don't bring lower taxes as reason bc being in TO got more endorsements.

I will even say the Avs is more talented than the Leafs with what they have now. But we will have to see can they win it this year.

To paint the picture that Leafs is so unique and it is on a planet all by itself is quite untrue.

Lastly, if the Leafs is as talented as we all seem to think they are, it is quite hard to believe they still have not make it past the first round of playoffs where 50% of the teams moved on.

 

[sparxx87]

Just to be clear…. How many rounds did we win with all these great players?

None. They only had two chances, when Matthews/Marner/Nylander were literally 18, 19, 20, 1st and 2nd year players.

The framework was there, they just needed to keep the group together and supplement the defense over the next few years. Dubas sold off half the team before they had a chance to grow.

Speaking of supplementing the defense, how about Braden Schneider? This player literally checks all the boxes for what they should have been looking for.. but instead, they chose 165lb winger without any standout skill(s). Asterisk on Amirov and hope he can recover but if we're being honest, he was a few years away, best case scenario. He offers a lesser version of what they already have in 16/88, AKA, just more of the same.

It's been really hard to watch. Has to be almost over, right?

 

[Dreakmur]

Ah yes, hockey is the best example of an individual sport.

If individuals don’t make huge impacts, it seems weird to dedicate 1/2 the cap to a few of them.

 

[Nineteen67]

Yet other teams are in the same boat. But then we hear "Oh but they won a round" which is complete BS excuse to ignore context and continue to shit on the team. Like the Blues have lost 5 in a row on the back of terrible defense but no one is saying the team is broken and has no hope.

Yeah I was probably a bit insulting but it has been frustrating the past few weeks dealing with everyone being chicken littles after spending the entire summer saying all that matters is game 1 of the playoffs. It's especially dumb because I know by Dec 1st people will pretend this freakout never happened.

St Louis fans think the Blues suck.


Even though I predicted they’d make the playoffs and win a round if they get a favourable match up, at this point I’m not convinced the Leafs will participate in a game 1 of the playoffs

 

[Trapper]

Like this, you mean? You'd be right - sometimes you need a few players that will drag the boys into the fight.

Watching Kadri and Komorov on this shift brings a tear to my eye. It was beautiful.

Ah the days when just about every poster was on the same page about the team. There wasn’t multiple posts about GM, players, etc.

That’s how you know something is wrong. When the division of posters and posts go on. Ignore it if you want, but there are many things wrong people want to deny.

When the majority of posts come back to the same side, it’s probably the right track. The evidence has been here for years.