Management Threads | Structure. Standards. Habits.

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Was this posted? Everyone should watch, I honestly have full faith in JR now

I’m still not sold that he’s going to stick around the team much longer, especially if things go south with this re-tool on the fly plan.

Wouldn’t be shocked to see him retire next summer or the one after.
 
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I’m still not sold that he’s going to stick around the team much longer, especially if things go south with this re-tool on the fly plan.

Wouldn’t be shocked to see him retire next summer or the one after.

Well if he didn’t enjoy retirement at age 71/72 will he enjoy retirement a few years later? The POHO job can actually be a pretty cushy job. The day to day grind can be left for others to do. He does not have to travel with the team. He doesn’t even have to be in Vancouver for half of the year. Meanwhile he can watch hockey and call up Allvin to talk everyday to pass the time. Of course he has practice arena and other corporate support stuff he needs to take care of but that’s not stressful stuff.

I can see him continuing until such time that Aquilini wants him to fire Allvin and hire a new GM.
 
Well if he didn’t enjoy retirement at age 71/72 will he enjoy retirement a few years later? The POHO job can actually be a pretty cushy job. The day to day grind can be left for others to do. He does not have to travel with the team. He doesn’t even have to be in Vancouver for half of the year. Meanwhile he can watch hockey and call up Allvin to talk everyday to pass the time. Of course he has practice arena and other corporate support stuff he needs to take care of but that’s not stressful stuff.

I can see him continuing until such time that Aquilini wants him to fire Allvin and hire a new GM.

It's likely a heavy workload including a 60 hour work week and a ton of stress considering the shelf life is often tied to the team success. And team success often doesn't last long in professional sports.

So I don't know it feels like your take of a cushy job is off and that's the kindest way to say it.
 
Well if he didn’t enjoy retirement at age 71/72 will he enjoy retirement a few years later? The POHO job can actually be a pretty cushy job. The day to day grind can be left for others to do. He does not have to travel with the team. He doesn’t even have to be in Vancouver for half of the year. Meanwhile he can watch hockey and call up Allvin to talk everyday to pass the time. Of course he has practice arena and other corporate support stuff he needs to take care of but that’s not stressful stuff.

I can see him continuing until such time that Aquilini wants him to fire Allvin and hire a new GM.
it depends on the person, my dad worked like crazy all his life and he was working until he was like 77 and he was able to do it because he was at a very very high level. Even though he was able to work till 7, I noticed that after he hit 70, he would just randomly doze off. At some point, your age REALLY kicks in and there just isn't enough stamina.
 
Well if he didn’t enjoy retirement at age 71/72 will he enjoy retirement a few years later? The POHO job can actually be a pretty cushy job. The day to day grind can be left for others to do. He does not have to travel with the team. He doesn’t even have to be in Vancouver for half of the year. Meanwhile he can watch hockey and call up Allvin to talk everyday to pass the time. Of course he has practice arena and other corporate support stuff he needs to take care of but that’s not stressful stuff.

I can see him continuing until such time that Aquilini wants him to fire Allvin and hire a new GM.
Working for Aqua can really help with that decision.

I always presumed that JR came here to build the management structure and leave. Just a hunch.

Also he didnt seem to like the scrutiny of the media here.
 
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It's likely a heavy workload including a 60 hour work week and a ton of stress considering the shelf life is often tied to the team success. And team success often doesn't last long in professional sports.

So I don't know it feels like your take of a cushy job is off and that's the kindest way to say it.

I think both you and I are guessing here but I am interested in what led you to think that it's a 60 hour work week for JR.

The POHO position isn't the same as the GM's. I assume that JR has a lot of leeway in shaping what the position entails (i.e. he can be as involved as he wants). We've seen JR step back and not talk to the media when he declared that he would zip it. He's not prominently featured in the behind the draft videos.

There's a different type of stress when you're overseeing a department where you're more or less reviewing the situation and providing advice rather than in charge of running things. JR, before he took the Canucks job, said he watched a lot of hockey. JR, with his decades of experience, probably isn't too stressed having to review say scouting reports, chatting with Allvin, and watching hockey games.

it depends on the person, my dad worked like crazy all his life and he was working until he was like 77 and he was able to do it because he was at a very very high level. Even though he was able to work till 7, I noticed that after he hit 70, he would just randomly doze off. At some point, your age REALLY kicks in and there just isn't enough stamina.
It does depend on the person but the question is whether JR is interested in the retirement life. Dozing off and lacking stamina isn't the same as not wanting to continue working at a job where his primary role is to oversee the entire operations.
 
My guess is that if all goes well, JR (and probably Tocchet tbh) moves to advisor and Allvin eventually transitions to President.

I have no idea why certain 75-year-olds are interested in still working, but JR strikes me as someone who will work to the grave like Lou. It's probably more fulfilling than just sitting on your deathbed or whatever.
 
My guess is that if all goes well, JR (and probably Tocchet tbh) moves to advisor and Allvin eventually transitions to President.

I have no idea why certain 75-year-olds are interested in still working, but JR strikes me as someone who will work to the grave like Lou. It's probably more fulfilling than just sitting on your deathbed or whatever.

People that age and older run countries (debatable whether they do it well, lol, but also debatable whether younger people have run it better), so it's not exactly unheard of for the chronically gifted to be working full time plus hours in much higher stress jobs than running a hockey team because it's something they're driven to do.

The interesting thing for me is over time there'll start to be some itchiness for their crop of AGM's to move up or out, so do we see JR moving on, PA moving up to make way for a promotion to hold on to someone like Granato or Castonguay? People move along all the time but if they've got a talented group together then talent retention is one of the things needed to build dynasties.
 
The interesting thing for me is over time there'll start to be some itchiness for their crop of AGM's to move up or out, so do we see JR moving on, PA moving up to make way for a promotion to hold on to someone like Granato or Castonguay? People move along all the time but if they've got a talented group together then talent retention is one of the things needed to build dynasties.

I hope there will be some team accomplishments if that was to happen. Sakic and McPhee moved up in situations where keeping the status quo was desirable.

But you never know these things. Holland wasn’t willing to move up and have Yzerman take over. JR wasn’t willing to let Botterill take over. I was surprised Kealty didn’t become Nashville’s GM.

Then there is ownership. If JR steps down, there will probably be no replacement. But who knows. Aquilini might like the idea of having the first female GM (if that’s still the case at the time)
 
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Setting expectations in the face of the Pettersson situation is a really good idea. The strategy is to make the playoffs, the likelihood is in question. I don’t see anything that doesn’t align.


I think any one of the top three in last years draft would have changed the whole tone around this team and would have resolved who is going to move Miller to the wing and given us organization depth with Raty down the middle.

This would have left us with a gap in our RHD prospects.
I think getting first overall every year and winning the cup every year while having 8 million in cap space is the best option.
Well, I mean you have no real evidence the current plan will make you any more or less competitive in two years than Drance's plan. If the team is in this situation this year, it's unlikely much different next year. Maybe the year after? Who knows. Drance's point is largely they haven't outlined any plan to make the team sustainably better and take that next step Rutherford is talking about. Continually ramming your head against the upper end of the salary cap and then trading picks to build through free agency probably isn't going to work.
drance doesn’t have a plan, he has whining. He has stupid bullshit because he knows his rebuild idea will be unpopular and is dumb anyway.

So he whines and comes up with fantasy world nonsense.
 
IMO it's an indictment of the club. Everything they've done is in service of making the playoffs now. The majority of the cap benefit of the OEL buyout is for this season only. They've been scrambling to clear cap during training camp for both seasons they've been on board.

Given all that and they still don't believe they are a real playoff team, it reflects very poorly on the job they've done.
What are they supposed to do?

Sit around until they get fired waiting for god awful benning era contracts to expire?

Agreed, I also feel they should have done more.

I would have been more aggressive to move cap out and get another top forward with size to complement Petey/Kuzmenko/Miller.

I do like the offseason addition especially Cole/Blueger, but Rutherford's assessment is bang on - teams generally have several things that go wrong.

To me even if Petey wasn't looking at this season to sign, every year we burn we waste a prime year away from Petey/Hughes/Demko
More aggressive?

Gonna make a deal they can’t refuse with a few other GMs?
 
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I think getting first overall every year and winning the cup every year while having 8 million in cap space is the best option.

drance doesn’t have a plan, he has whining. He has stupid bullshit because he knows his rebuild idea will be unpopular and is dumb anyway.

So he whines and comes up with fantasy world nonsense.
You can strategy pursue various objectives, one of which is to secure a high draft pick in a deep draft. Nothing hairy fairy about that, it’s astute asset management and this marginalizing that is why we have sucked for the last decade.
 
You can strategy pursue various objectives, one of which is to secure a high draft pick in a deep draft. Nothing hairy fairy about that, it’s astute asset management and this marginalizing that is why we have sucked for the last decade.
Why even be a Canucks fan if you want them to dump their best players for lottery tickets?

Just incredibly dumb.
 
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Why even be a Canucks fan if you want them to dump their best players for lottery tickets?

Just incredibly dumb.
I want them to win, I enjoy when the team is good, I don’t enjoy when teams take the boots to us for years at a time. I personally prefer to see management take the most statistically likely process to succeed, given the variables that are in play. Nothing is guaranteed, but the more picks you have the more likely you are to hit on a late round bloomer, and the higher your draft position the more likely the player is to be a game breaker. This team is still poorly constructed and still has contracts that are handcuffing them, Demko, Pettersson and Hughes are not getting younger and the stock pile of young, cheap, prospects isn’t particularly deep.

I want to win, hard stop, not make the playoffs, I want to honestly feel like the team is good enough to lift the cup. I enjoyed watching the 2011 version of this team, and not to many of the teams since.
 
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I want them to win, I enjoy when the team is good, I don’t enjoy when teams take the boots to us for years at a time. I personally prefer to see management take the most statistically likely process to succeed, given the variables that are in play. Nothing is guaranteed, but the more picks you have the more likely you are to hit on a late round bloomer, and the higher your draft position the more likely the player is to be a game breaker. This team is still poorly constructed and still has contracts that are handcuffing them, Demko, Pettersson and Hughes are not getting younger and the stock pile of young, cheap, prospects isn’t particularly deep.

I want to win, hard stop, not make the playoffs, I want to honestly feel like the team is good enough to lift the cup. I enjoyed watching the 2011 version of this team, and not to many of the teams since.
I wanted to add, you’re the one that said I wanted to do this every year which is totally incorrect. But a year in which the team is swamped with bad contracts and has a historically bad penalty kill and loses its starting goaltender is a good year to do it. Drance is simply pointing out the shortfalls of the team, I have no idea why this would trigger you so much. It’s clear we spend to much time on wingers, it’s clear they high end centers and defensemen rarely if ever come available
I’m FA, and even if they do, they have to choose your team. This team, with this core hasn’t achieved anything at all, to be married to it, makes no sense.

Pettersson and Hughes are the only untouchables on the team. That is the list, after that you take whatever options is mostly likely to yield positive results.
 
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I personally prefer to see management take the most statistically likely process to succeed, given the variables that are in play.
I don’t understand why this is controversial in a "winning a cup" context. If you want to win the cup, it is the best path full stop. NA leagues are designed this way with the draft and salary caps. The leagues themselves are aware of this with anti-tanking rules that aren’t very effective.

You can disagree from a sporting sense or from a business angle but those reasons partially contribute to the league‘s design.

Good management overall (draft, development, signings etc) is obviously paramount but the league actively has guard rails against bad management.
 
I don’t understand why this is controversial in a "winning a cup" context. If you want to win the cup, it is the best path full stop. NA leagues are designed this way with the draft and salary caps. The leagues themselves are aware of this with anti-tanking rules that aren’t very effective.

You can disagree from a sporting sense or from a business angle but those reasons partially contribute to the league‘s design.

Good management overall (draft, development, signings etc) is obviously paramount but the league actively has guard rails against bad management.

A lot of fans looked at Edmonton's decade of darkness and took away from it that tanking/rebuild = bad. Rather than the outlier it was.
 
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A lot of fans looked at Edmonton's decade of darkness and took away from it that tanking/rebuild = bad. Rather than the outlier it was.
Edmonton and Buffalo are actually examples of my point. No matter how badly managed a team is: the league won’t let them fail. Edmonton is a contender and Buffalo is an up and comer with a roster full of top ten picks.
 
Edmonton and Buffalo had 10 and 12 years of failure to get to where they are now (and Buffalo is still trying to get back into the playoffs) I don't think they're good examples of how to do anything.
 
Edmonton and Buffalo are actually examples of my point. No matter how badly managed a team is: the league won’t let them fail. Edmonton is a contender and Buffalo is an up and comer with a roster full of top ten picks.
Edmonton and Buffalo took 10+ years
Avs took 9 years
Devils took 7 years.

Yes if you rebuild long enough, it should eventually work. The problem has always been how long. If you are asking why aren’t people willing to advocate for pulling the plug and spending another like 4-10 years sucking, the answer should be pretty self evident.
 
Edmonton and Buffalo took 10+ years
Avs took 9 years
Devils took 7 years.

Yes if you rebuild long enough, it should eventually work. The problem has always been how long. If you are asking why aren’t people willing to advocate for pulling the plug and spending another like 4-10 years sucking, the answer should be pretty self evident.

That's because most Canucks fans are impatient as hell and only pay attention when the season comes around.

The Canucks have never rebuilt at all. Logically speaking, the time to actually properly rebuild was when the Sedins retired in 2018. Given that timeline, the Canucks would be in year 5 of the rebuild and just coming out of it. But we all know that didn't happen.

The Devils took 6 years BTW (Hischier drafted in 2017) And before that they were just middling around trying to make the playoffs with a subpar roster (hmmm, doesn't that ring a bell)

The Blackhawks are in year 2 of their rebuild and the Sharks just embarked on theirs. The Senators are coming out of their rebuild as well.
 
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