Management Threads | Structure. Standards. Habits.

[SeawaterOnIce]

This thread’s fallen to the second page? Wow…

Anyway, in The Athletic’s annual rankings, split between a team’s own fans and others, the Canucks have fallen back down to the almost-bottom:

Ownership: F

 

[arttk]

Ownership: F

This is the way

 

[VanJack]

Is it my imagination, or has Aquilini finally absented himself from the player personnel decisions, and left things in the total control of his hockey ops people?

The first clue was the buy-out of OEL, which will cost the owners $20m before the contract mercifully winds down. It's something the owners under Jim Benning would never have even contemplated.

And the inescapable conclusion is that the Canucks management has had a good summer. They're acquired veterans on short-term deals, and shored up their blueline and secondary scoring without much outlay of money and term.

It could be wishful thinking.....but clearly something has changed. It would be such a relief to know that guys like Rutherford and Allvin are in total control, with no inference from ownership.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Is it my imagination, or has Aquilini finally absented himself from the player personnel decisions, and left things in the total control of his hockey ops people?

The first clue was the buy-out of OEL, which will cost the owners $20m before the contract mercifully winds down. It's something the owners under Jim Benning would never have even contemplated.

And the inescapable conclusion is that the Canucks management has had a good summer. They're acquired veterans on short-term deals, and shored up their blueline and secondary scoring without much outlay of money and term.

It could be wishful thinking.....but clearly something has changed. It would be such a relief to know that guys like Rutherford and Allvin are in total control, with no inference from ownership.

Part of that is driven by cap constraints and the mandate to make the playoffs. Buying out OEL had to be done to ensure this team had a remote chance of improving over the next 2 years. Even a fool could see this.

Would OEL had been bought out if the team had made the playoffs last year?

 

[logan5]

August 31 is the NHL hockey solstice. Things are going to start ramping up from here.

We will see how good this management group really is this season. If the pk improved and the defence has improved, then they are on the right track, and I will trust them moving forward.

 

[RobertKron]

August 31 is the NHL hockey solstice. Things are going to start ramping up from here.

We will see how good this management group really is this season. If the pk improved and the defence has improved, then they are on the right track, and I will trust them moving forward.

Didn't you recently say how you thought this was about to be an elite team? And you don't know that you trust management? What does this team look like with management that you trust? They're just playing hockey on the moon?

 

[logan5]

Didn't you recently say how you thought this was about to be an elite team? And you don't know that you trust management? What does this team look like with management that you trust? They're just playing hockey on the moon?

Yeah I said the big pieces are there for an elite team. If the right surrounding pieces have been brought in place this off season then yes I believe this team will track towards elite. Lighten up. You get all worked up way too easily.

 

[RobertKron]

Yeah I said the big pieces are there for an elite team. If the right surrounding pieces have been brought in place this off season then yes I believe this team will track towards elite. Lighten up. You get all worked up way too easily.

I'm not worked up at all. I just don't really understand how you got to that post from "the Canucks will have a break out season" and talking about how the PK is improved enough to be worth 10 extra points a couple weeks ago. What has happened in the meantime to make you become so reserved?

 

[logan5]

I'm not worked up at all. I just don't really understand how you got to that post from "the Canucks will have a break out season" and talking about how the PK is improved enough to be worth 10 extra points a couple weeks ago. What has happened in the meantime to make you become so reserved?

I'm predicting a break out season. I'm going out on a limb and saying these new pieces are going to work. You are overanalizing my predictions.

 

[LordBacon]

Havnt been here for a while, hope you lads are doing well.

I feel like its fair to say that this season will serve as a "assessment season" for this new management group. While Jimbo the drafting guru's horrible decisions still kind of haunt this team till this very day, I feel like the majority of the fan base and the players are finally moving on from all that shit.

With that being said, I feel like the current mgt group is actually decent based on their assessment on the current situation despite being pushed to make the playoffs by Aqualini.
Not signing overpriced and overly long termed UFAs, no more signing middle 6 wingers for like 4 years with NTCs. Actually tackling with pk and this weak ass d (heh).
Not saying they are our messiah but its a breath of fresh air.

But regardless the results on ice are yet to be seen, hoping for a fruitful season for once.

 

[MarkMM]

Havnt been here for a while, hope you lads are doing well.

I feel like its fair to say that this season will serve as a "assessment season" for this new management group. While Jimbo the drafting guru's horrible decisions still kind of haunt this team till this very day, I feel like the majority of the fan base and the players are finally moving on from all that shit.

With that being said, I feel like the current mgt group is actually decent based on their assessment on the current situation despite being pushed to make the playoffs by Aqualini.
Not signing overpriced and overly long termed UFAs, no more signing middle 6 wingers for like 4 years with NTCs. Actually tackling with pk and this weak ass d (heh).
Not saying they are our messiah but its a breath of fresh air.

But regardless the results on ice are yet to be seen, hoping for a fruitful season for once.

Yeah, new management is undeniably better, and they're making a valiant effort to turn Benning's detritus into something that is, if not a contender, then at least is plausibly heading in that direction.

The question is whether there's just too much damage to do anything serious with this core in their window, and if under a new system with Tocchet we can show that we have the foundation that can be built upon, then I'd be comfortable continuing on this path.

But if it's clear that by the time we're out of the worst of Benning (dead cap, rebuilt pipeline, etc) that this core will have missed their prime window then there needs to be a hard look at blowing it up. As much as FAQ has refused to allow it, this assessment is likely what's going through the minds of clearly Petersson, likely Hughes and maybe Demko and Kuzmenko, so the team's star players might force a rebuild on FAQ if they all walk to save their careers.

I'm optimistic but that's because I'm expecting good things this season and am a believer in Tocchet being the right fit.

 

[F A N]

Yeah, new management is undeniably better, and they're making a valiant effort to turn Benning's detritus into something that is, if not a contender, then at least it plausibly heading in that direction.

The question is whether there's just too much damage to do anything serious with this core in their window, and if under a new system with Tocchet we can show that we have the foundation that can be built upon, then I'd be comfortable continuing on this path.

But if it's clear that by the time we're out of the worst of Benning (dead cap, rebuilt pipeline, etc) that this core will have missed their prime window then there needs to be a hard look at blowing it up. As much as FAQ has refused to allow it, this assessment is likely what's going through the minds of clearly Petersson, likely Hughes and maybe Demko and Kuzmenko, so the team's star players might force a rebuild on Benning if they all walk to save their careers.

I'm optimistic but that's because I'm expecting good things this season and am a believer in Tocchet being the right fit.

I'm optimistic as well and believe in the core but I do have some concerns. I look at the Oilers over the years and I can't understand how they were doing so well (in the regular season) some seasons aside from having McDavid and Draisaitl when we do so poorly.

 

[Jay Cee]

Is it my imagination, or has Aquilini finally absented himself from the player personnel decisions, and left things in the total control of his hockey ops people?

The first clue was the buy-out of OEL, which will cost the owners $20m before the contract mercifully winds down. It's something the owners under Jim Benning would never have even contemplated.

And the inescapable conclusion is that the Canucks management has had a good summer. They're acquired veterans on short-term deals, and shored up their blueline and secondary scoring without much outlay of money and term.

It could be wishful thinking.....but clearly something has changed. It would be such a relief to know that guys like Rutherford and Allvin are in total control, with no inference from ownership.

I am sure Frankie has some say when he was cutting a cheque for 10s of millions of dollars for someone not to play.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Didn't you recently say how you thought this was about to be an elite team? And you don't know that you trust management? What does this team look like with management that you trust? They're just playing hockey on the moon?

Logan’s opinions and predictions on here have been pretty special. On an unrelated note, I am believer in the infinite monkey theorem.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

I'm optimistic as well and believe in the core but I do have some concerns. I look at the Oilers over the years and I can't understand how they were doing so well (in the regular season) some seasons aside from having McDavid and Draisaitl when we do so poorly.

Mcdavid is just unfair man. Not including Draisaitl, he averages 31.5 points than anyone else the last 2 years, and 27.6 the last 5 years( keep in mind shortened seasons). That’s a 30 goal advantage over teams like Colorado and Toronto with other elite players, let alone bubble teams. I mean McDavid had 153 points last year, and these were the leading scorers on some bubble teams in the west:


Elias Pettersson -102
Kyle Connor -80 points
Tyler Toffolli -73
Jordan Kyrou -73
Roman Josi -59

It’s basically impossible for Edmonton to be bad enough outside of Mcdavid to not make the playoffs. I like are core guys and they do give us advantage over the non playoff teams in the west. Not over most of the other playoff teams though. It’s also not enough of an advantage to make up for all the other troubles that the team has had over the years.

 

[Peen]

They need a major "uh, wow, how did they pull that one off" trade which they haven't done yet. One move like that probably gets them a playoff spot guaranteed.

 

[F A N]

They need a major "uh, wow, how did they pull that one off" trade which they haven't done yet. One move like that probably gets them a playoff spot guaranteed.

What about "how did they manage to sign that guy" signing? I mean maybe Soucy takes another step forward in his development and solidifies the top 4? There's Cole and Hronek as well. Improved D combined with a healthy and prime Demko should get us there.

 

[Peen]

What about "how did they manage to sign that guy" signing? I mean maybe Soucy takes another step forward in his development and solidifies the top 4? There's Cole and Hronek as well. Improved D combined with a healthy and prime Demko should get us there.

Those would be hindsight wows, and I’m a judge moves in foresight type of person.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

I agree with Peen. I think we need another piece or two to be a team that is expected to make the playoffs, instead of a if things go right we can get a wild card spot type of team.

 

[F A N]

I agree with Peen. I think we need another piece or two to be a team that is expected to make the playoffs, instead of a if things go right we can get a wild card spot type of team.

Could that piece be an improved Boeser?

 

[Peen]

Could that piece be an improved Boeser?

i say this yearly but

if your arguments in favor of a team reaching x result are hinging upon mostly saying "what if x, y, z, do a, b, c" - you're reaching. in theory, most things COULD go right. that's why you have random teams that exceed expectations due to a bunch of shit going their way. then there's the opposite. most teams perform get around the middle of that in terms of injuries, goaltending, performance cumulatively.

and my point with getting another big win trade is that i think, on the balance, i'd say the middle tier expectation would be a guaranteed playoff spot.

when you brought up the additions in the posts above that you laugh reacted at, i'm saying that those are hindsight wins because:

1. i outlined all those additions as necessities, not bonuses.
2. they're still missing two of my demands (that essentially act as one) for what i outlined this team needed when they made the hronek trade. they have to shift another salary and add another legitimate core-supporting piece, either as a stop gap or a long term one. think shifting myers and adding tanev.

in theory they COULD pick up some guy off of waivers and have him be a legitimate top 4 D or top nine two-way F out of nowhere, but those are hindsight wins. i'm saying they need to make a move that, from a foresight perspective, you'd say that made a ton of sense and puts us in x position and you don't end up talking yourself into but if 5000 things go our way we'll be in a good spot nonsense.

maybe you trade myers and he ends up playing 80 games like a top four d which he's never done for more than 20 games of a season in VAN and whoever we get e.g. tanev get injured for 40 games - that doesn't negate that trading him and getting an upgrade would have been a good foresight move. maybe they do that, myers sucks and tanev plays like a top 4 d but hughes or ep gets a season ending injury or regress back into the bad versions of themselves. i don't think those are faults to management.

anyways yeah, that's the end of that rant

 

[F A N]

i say this yearly but

if your arguments in favor of a team reaching x result are hinging upon mostly saying "what if x, y, z, do a, b, c" - you're reaching. in theory, most things COULD go right. that's why you have random teams that exceed expectations due to a bunch of shit going their way. then there's the opposite. most teams perform get around the middle of that in terms of injuries, goaltending, performance cumulatively.

and my point with getting another big win trade is that i think, on the balance, i'd say the middle tier expectation would be a guaranteed playoff spot.

when you brought up the additions in the posts above that you laugh reacted at, i'm saying that those are hindsight wins because:

1. i outlined all those additions as necessities, not bonuses.
2. they're still missing two of my demands (that essentially act as one) for what i outlined this team needed when they made the hronek trade. they have to shift another salary and add another legitimate core-supporting piece, either as a stop gap or a long term one. think shifting myers and adding tanev.

in theory they COULD pick up some guy off of waivers and have him be a legitimate top 4 D or top nine two-way F out of nowhere, but those are hindsight wins. i'm saying they need to make a move that, from a foresight perspective, you'd say that made a ton of sense and puts us in x position and you don't end up talking yourself into but if 5000 things go our way we'll be in a good spot nonsense.

maybe you trade myers and he ends up playing 80 games like a top four d which he's never done for more than 20 games of a season in VAN and whoever we get e.g. tanev get injured for 40 games - that doesn't negate that trading him and getting an upgrade would have been a good foresight move. maybe they do that, myers sucks and tanev plays like a top 4 d but hughes or ep gets a season ending injury or regress back into the bad versions of themselves. i don't think those are faults to management.

anyways yeah, that's the end of that rant

I'm just wondering if the big trade win you're thinking of is an addition up front or addition on the blueline. Up front I think we're missing an elite 3C but there is talent up front so I'm not sure if adding say another top 6 winger would do much. Wondering what you are thinking of here.

 

[TruGr1t]

The question is whether there's just too much damage to do anything serious with this core in their window, and if under a new system with Tocchet we can show that we have the foundation that can be built upon, then I'd be comfortable continuing on this path.

The answer to this is most likely yes. That doesn't mean they're wrong to try, but the chances of them doing anything meaningful by constantly flirting with the top of the salary cap and chasing free agents while hoping for a miracle trade isn't exactly a recipe for sustainable success.

You can't manage your way out of having a prospect pool that rivals that of most contenders after having basically been a non-playoff team for a decade in a hard-cap league. No matter how good you are.

I'd imagine internally they'd be happy with a couple of playoff appearances in the next couple of years and are probably modelling a rebuild within 4-5 years.

 

[credulous]

I'm just wondering if the big trade win you're thinking of is an addition up front or addition on the blueline. Up front I think we're missing an elite 3C but there is talent up front so I'm not sure if adding say another top 6 winger would do much. Wondering what you are thinking of here.

they definitely need another forward. if you play three of mikheyev, boeser, beauvillier and garland in the top 6 you're going to be outmatched on at least one line against nearly every playoff hopeful in the league. miller is an above average second line center but if he lines up between beauvillier and garland that line is going to be playing from behind more often than not

they also need a third line center and just more talent overall on the blueline but ensuring the second line is competitive should be the priority

 

[quat]

They need a major "uh, wow, how did they pull that one off" trade which they haven't done yet. One move like that probably gets them a playoff spot guaranteed.

My concern will be injuries. Building depth is really difficult and takes time when you're going from almost zero while trying to make the playoffs.

Without injuries, they should be in the running for the playoffs, but with them, things could go sideways pretty quickly. It would be a lot more interesting not to be out of things by Christmas.