Management Threads | Structure. Standards. Habits.

[Diogenes92]

Hronek Soucy Cole is not better than OEL, bear Schenn?

Hronek is the only wildcard here. If he can return from a serious injury and play effective minutes while carrying a 2nd pairing, then it will definitely be an improvement.

Cole and Soucy vs Schenn and Bear really isn't that much better imo.

OEL is addition by subtraction.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Just realised something.

The contracts to Soucy, Cole & Blueger are even better when you consider the taxes and that we are not on the cusp of winning a cup next season... No premium for being a non contender. So that is also a feather in the cap of management.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Surely there is no lower bar in the entire league

 

[F A N]

Just realised something.

The contracts to Soucy, Cole & Blueger are even better when you consider the taxes and that we are not on the cusp of winning a cup next season... No premium for being a non contender. So that is also a feather in the cap of management.

Not sure about Soucy. I don't see other teams significantly outbidding us for Cole or Blueger.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Not sure about Soucy. I don't see other teams significantly outbidding us for Cole or Blueger.

Considering the BC taxes and non-contender status of the team, I think it was a tidy piece of work.

 

[me2]

Considering the BC taxes and non-contender status of the team, I think it was a tidy piece of work.

Soucy wouldn't get too minutes on a contender. I think he did as well as he could.

Cole is just following the money, Canucks just paid the most of any team he liked is my guess. Again he's getting prime minutes.

We did fine and we weren't handicapped. We aren't Chicago for non-contender suckiness not are we Winnipeg for unwanted city. We are a bubble team in a nice locale.

 

[F A N]

Considering the BC taxes and non-contender status of the team, I think it was a tidy piece of work.

You said no premium was paid and my point is I am not sure that is the case. I don’t think the players turned down more money to sign here. I do think it’s likely we made the best offer.

As long as the player is worth it I don’t think it’s all that relevant whether the team “paid a premium.” I don’t expect the team to offer less money and or less term than other teams and expect to get the player. If anything, if the player is worth it, you might as well outbid other teams.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

You said no premium was paid and my point is I am not sure that is the case. I don’t think the players turned down more money to sign here. I do think it’s likely we made the best offer.

As long as the player is worth it I don’t think it’s all that relevant whether the team “paid a premium.” I don’t expect the team to offer less money and or less term than other teams and expect to get the player. If anything, if the player is worth it, you might as well outbid other teams.

Maybe.

 

[nameless1]

Objectively...
This group is better...
Because most of the decisions does make some sense.
It also bit the bullet...
And paid a lot of money to fix some of the messes the previous regime left behind.
Unfortunately...
Because the previous group was so incompetent...
Anybody will look better in comparison...
And this new group will just get a ton of leashes and leeways.
I already see that now...
As these people get a rather decent review thus far...
For transactions that basically tread water .

It is what it is.
I wish there is a clearer direction...
But this group still takes that hybrid rebuild and retool approach.
Unfortunately...
This is clearly what ownership wants...
Even after a decade of failure...
So it will be the same no matter who comes in.

I am really disappointed by the media here...
To be honest.
The PR team basically schmoozes and woos the reporters...
And as a result...
They become too cozy...
And nobody holds anyone accountable.
National media started to question the Canucks brass by year 4...
And really panned the group in the 5th year...
But local reporters just continue to add to the kool-aid...
And it took about 6 years before they say anything bad about Benning...
But that was only because it was just undeniable...
And people had started to revolt.

Anyways...
That is just how I see management at the moment.
They are better...
But anyone is better than the single cell organism the team previous employed...
And the amateur scouts are terrible as usual...
But I am also biased...
Because I want a full rebuild.

 

[andora]

It's almost like having Deja Vu right now with people on CDC, when they wanted to defend Loui Eriksson signing and questioning me for questioning management and their plan.

The point is JR was brought in from retirement from FA to get this team back into the playoffs to help FA make money. This management over evaluated the D and blamed the coach, got a new coach, the D still sucked, now realizes the D isn't as good as they thought, buy out OEL who wasn't supposed to be bought out according to them originally. Sold Bear as a future for this group going forward on a weak D who was over evaluated. Management even said after the 2022 season they were a few pieces away from being a playoff team, so went out and got some players, then it was major surgery is needed. Where's the major surgery? This management teams goal is to get them into the playoffs, but past has shown they're just winging it as it goes, their not evaluating the players properly, and their goal is to make FA happy with playoffs. What happens when Demko gets injured again? The season is done, the plan is just a mess.

Can you honestly believe, that as many experienced people as we have, including our pres, thought the defense group was good up until tocchet? Do you literally believe that?

There is a mountain of context that you dismiss with your take on the defence (justified or not) as well as some of your other darts in this thread.

 

[strattonius]

We basically said that last year we might get a wildcard spot but our blueline is likely going to crater us. And with Demko's injury it basically did - the blueline was an absolute joke if not for a top5 dman in Hughes it's by far the worst in the league.

I have no idea where these people are that were saying our defense wasn't bad last year - so using that logic to downplay the acquisitions of Soucy and Cole as well as the buyout of OEL is really missing the plot. Our defense is looking hugely improved going in to this season. Not sitting here saying Cole and Soucy are world beaters but their utility to making different pairings as well as their PK abilities mean we can actually put NHL level defense on the PK next year. Couple that with Tocchet's system play and theres really no reason to think we wont improve defensively next hear. But okah...ho-hum this is the exact same thing as last off season I guess.

 

[Hodgy]

I'm sure they have a roadmap of how they'd like to arrive as a legitimate threat this year, but you can't really just make that happen unilaterally. I'd imagine that their baseline goal for the season is to clean up some holdover messes and field an improved team that can hopefully take a step forward.

This isn’t good enough though. Everyone was screaming full rebuild since this team took over, and management has continually rejected that notion in favour of executing a retool. This has been their plan and JR even chuckled at the notion of it taking more than two years to turn this team around. Many on here were critical of this direction as it’s extremely hard to execute (frankly, basically all the non-tanking and non-elite teams are trying to execute on this, so like more than half the team). Alvin at the end of this last year seemed almost shocked this team missed the playoffs and double downed on the expectation this is a playoff team next year.

So given the context, I would find it extremely frustrating if this management team fails to execute on their very aggressive and difficult plan to execute, and then, explicitly or implicitly, whines about how difficult it is the execute (I.e., have bad contracts that can’t be moved).

 

[valkynax]

This isn’t good enough though. Everyone was screaming full rebuild since this team took over, and management has continually rejected that notion in favour of executing a retool. This has been their plan and JR even chuckled at the notion of it taking more than two years to turn this team around. Many on here were critical of this direction as it’s extremely hard to execute (frankly, basically all the non-tanking and non-elite teams are trying to execute on this, so like more than half the team). Alvin at the end of this last year seemed almost shocked this team missed the playoffs and double downed on the expectation this is a playoff team next year.

So given the context, I would find it extremely frustrating if this management team fails to execute on their very aggressive and difficult plan to execute, and then, explicitly or implicitly, whines about how difficult it is the execute (I.e., have bad contracts that can’t be moved).

What I am concerned about the most, is the very real possibility that our management either being unable or unmotivated to build the team to push to cup level, and be satisfied with just skirting the edges of playoffs.

 

[shottasasa]

This isn’t good enough though. Everyone was screaming full rebuild since this team took over, and management has continually rejected that notion in favour of executing a retool. This has been their plan and JR even chuckled at the notion of it taking more than two years to turn this team around. Many on here were critical of this direction as it’s extremely hard to execute (frankly, basically all the non-tanking and non-elite teams are trying to execute on this, so like more than half the team). Alvin at the end of this last year seemed almost shocked this team missed the playoffs and double downed on the expectation this is a playoff team next year.

So given the context, I would find it extremely frustrating if this management team fails to execute on their very aggressive and difficult plan to execute, and then, explicitly or implicitly, whines about how difficult it is the execute (I.e., have bad contracts that can’t be moved).

Was it management or ownership who set out the strategic plan to be competitive? What they are responsible for would influence my analysis of their work and it isn’t that easy to tell, tho I personally think ownership is driving the strategic bus. Since the Aquilini’s took over they’ve always prioritised being competitiveness and eschewed a full rebuild.

 

[Hodgy]

Was it management or ownership who set out the strategic plan to be competitive? What they are responsible for would influence my analysis of their work and it isn’t that easy to tell, tho I personally think ownership is driving the strategic bus. Since the Aquilini’s took over they’ve always prioritised being competitiveness and eschewed a full rebuild.

I agree. I assume the retool/compete now direction is from ownership. But I also think it’s extremely likely that management pitched this plan when they were hired as well, so I’m not going to let them off the hook. That’s how these things generally work. For better or for worse, an owner sets out its objectives and candidates are interviewed and evaluated based on their plan/vision to meet these objectives.

 

[RobertKron]

This isn’t good enough though. Everyone was screaming full rebuild since this team took over, and management has continually rejected that notion in favour of executing a retool. This has been their plan and JR even chuckled at the notion of it taking more than two years to turn this team around. Many on here were critical of this direction as it’s extremely hard to execute (frankly, basically all the non-tanking and non-elite teams are trying to execute on this, so like more than half the team). Alvin at the end of this last year seemed almost shocked this team missed the playoffs and double downed on the expectation this is a playoff team next year.

So given the context, I would find it extremely frustrating if this management team fails to execute on their very aggressive and difficult plan to execute, and then, explicitly or implicitly, whines about how difficult it is the execute (I.e., have bad contracts that can’t be moved).

This is fair.

I'm not saying that I think they've knocked it out of the park, and I'm not saying that I think they've chosen the absolute best path to a cup or whatever, but at some point some reality has to seep in and it has to be realized they were never going to tear it down to the studs with the team having been so bad for so long and finally having something here for the fans to potentially get behind.

What I do think is promising is that they're very clearly operating with restraint, and not allowing themselves to just chase their tail and throw money and term at whatever the most exciting thing in front of them is at any given moment. That's obviously a pretty low bar, but here we are.

 

[racerjoe]

I think you guys are both being too micro with what FA would say and his direction at this point. I think FA says I want to win now. JR then says "this is the way".

I think its clear when JR doesn't want to do something WE will see pushback. Just look at the way Bruce was handled. FA will still have his way to start, but we as fans can probably look at it and go thats not right.

 

[Josepho]

What I am concerned about the most, is the very real possibility that our management either being unable or unmotivated to build the team to push to cup level, and be satisfied with just skirting the edges of playoffs.

Benning is probably the only executive in league history that was okay with squeaking into the playoffs.

 

[krutovsdonut]

they might perhaps be a playoff team but they will need to have prospects take a step on defence to go anywhere. they do have a lot of ripe dman prospects so it may happen. or they may just lose them to waivers trying to protect summer signings.

other than hughes, the canucks have had nobody graduate from prospect to dman regular on our team since stecher and, before that, tanev. both were undrafted free agents. the last canucks draft pick who became a regular on the canucks before hughes was alex edler drafted 19 years ago.

that might be the worst record in the league. it certainly needs to end for this team to have any hope of a cost controlled defence.

 

[RobertKron]

It's kind of a wild that for a team in the position they've been in, they haven't had a pick play a single NHL game yet out of any draft since 2019.

Edit: The other teams in the same situation are Tampa, Vegas, Pittsburgh, and Boston.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

they might perhaps be a playoff team but they will need to have prospects take a step on defence to go anywhere. they do have a lot of ripe dman prospects so it may happen. or they may just lose them to waivers trying to protect summer signings.

other than hughes, the canucks have had nobody graduate from prospect to dman regular on our team since stecher and, before that, tanev. both were undrafted free agents. the last canucks draft pick who became a regular on the canucks before hughes was alex edler drafted 19 years ago.

that might be the worst record in the league. it certainly needs to end for this team to have any hope of a cost controlled defence.

Hutton as well, but your point still stands.

 

[valkynax]

Benning is probably the only executive in league history that was okay with squeaking into the playoffs.

I have a feeling that Fredolini was and likely still is the source of such lunacy, at least for our organization.

And with how far Florida managed to get, I fear that it has only poured fuel on a fire that was originally lit from a pile of shit.

 

[RobertKron]

I don't know if they were necessarily okay with just squeaking into the playoffs, or if they just thought the team was actually quite good and close and just had bad luck/schedule/injuries/etc. They behaved a lot more like they thought they were putting the finishing touches on a high-end team than that they thought they were trying to take a step forward while still keeping attention to building a stronger foundation for the future.

There was pretty clearly a lot of ego in that group, and they didn't really appear to encourage dissenting voices.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

Can you honestly believe, that as many experienced people as we have, including our pres, thought the defense group was good up until tocchet? Do you literally believe that?

There is a mountain of context that you dismiss with your take on the defence (justified or not) as well as some of your other darts in this thread.

In the off-season last year how many D did they sign? Or how many D did they move? After saying they were a few pieces away from making the playoffs, they didn't do anything to the D to fix it, instead went after forwards. It wasn't until just before the season started they then made a trade to aquire Stillman. Season started they sucked JR again went on about structure, then they made another trade and grabbed Bear the guy they had their eye on for months. Things didn't change they still sucked, then JR again went on about structure, and this one comment he made was a little weird.

“If we were playing in a real, strong structure, it would make it easier for our defence to play and it wouldn’t matter who was on our defence, but right now we don’t have that strong structure and we need to change the makeup of our defence,” he said.

It's a weird comment, because he's saying if the structure was right it doesn't matter who the D are, but in his mind the structure isn't strong enough so he now has to fix the D because of the coaching structure, but it still shows he didn't feel the D needed to be fixed It's all structure. So to answer your question yes I do believe they thought the D was good enough, it was all about structure in their eyes.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

What did Allvin say last season....

“We’re not going to make the playoffs this year, which is extremely disappointing,” Allvin told reporters at Rogers Arena this afternoon. “And that’s on me. It’s on me, and it’s on me to make this team better.”

The Canucks GM thinks his team can take a “big step” next season with the help of his new coaching staff.

“Where we’re sitting right now, I believe there is more to do here. We’re not happy where we are. I’m happy to see the response from the players since Rick Tocchet took over here. What we emphasize on day-to-day stuff, how we’re changing the standard and the culture of what it means to become a Vancouver Canuck.”

But Wednesday’s trade to acquire Filip Hronek confirmed the team’s intention to try a quick retool, rather than a slow and methodical rebuild. And the goal appears to be to get into the playoffs right away.

“My expectation is to make the playoffs with the players we have here, and especially [when] you have an elite goalie in Thatcher Demko. Filip Hronek, Quinn Hughes, Pettersson, Miller, Kuzmenko,” Allvin explained. “I mean, we have good players here. No doubt about it. But we need to learn how to play as a team. We have a lot of work to do in order to be a playoff team here. But I’m very confident in the coaching staff I got in here now, and what we’re going to do in order to come ready next year.”