Management Threads | Structure. Standards. Habits.

[andora]

In the off-season last year how many D did they sign? Or how many D did they move? After saying they were a few pieces away from making the playoffs, they didn't do anything to the D to fix it, instead went after forwards. It wasn't until just before the season started they then made a trade to aquire Stillman. Season started they sucked JR again went on about structure, then they made another trade and grabbed Bear the guy they had their eye on for months. Things didn't change they still sucked, then JR again went on about structure, and this one comment he made was a little weird.



It's a weird comment, because he's saying if the structure was right it doesn't matter who the D are, but in his mind the structure isn't strong enough so he now has to fix the D because of the coaching structure, but it still shows he didn't feel the D needed to be fixed It's all structure. So to answer your question yes I do believe they thought the D was good enough, it was all about structure in their eyes.

Again there is a lot of context you skip

But honestly last summer.. how realistic was it to move who we needed to move. Oel and myers with 2 yrs left? Its not a shock that they couldnt

And he is half right with the structure piece - do you thjnk its a fluke a bunch of ahlers and ncaa ufas and myers actually held respectively with a structured system - but that doesnt default like you frame it to good enough. Remembwr penguins in 2017 their defence core cause letang was hurt. They were average on paper but played with a structure that suited them

Thats the point

You also need to see what you have before labelling everyone - last year say dman X played poorly under boudreaus mess but then in more stucture under tocchet dman X plays quite adequately because he has help. When you take a star player out of the equation you need to figure out who plays how and how to help them collectively..

It is not as black and white as you shoot it

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

Again there is a lot of context you skip

But honestly last summer.. how realistic was it to move who we needed to move. Oel and myers with 2 yrs left? Its not a shock that they couldnt

And he is half right with the structure piece - do you thjnk its a fluke a bunch of ahlers and ncaa ufas and myers actually held respectively with a structured system - but that doesnt default like you frame it to good enough. Remembwr penguins in 2017 their defence core cause letang was hurt. They were average on paper but played with a structure that suited them

Thats the point

You also need to see what you have before labelling everyone - last year say dman X played poorly under boudreaus mess but then in more stucture under tocchet dman X plays quite adequately because he has help. When you take a star player out of the equation you need to figure out who plays how and how to help them collectively..

It is not as black and white as you shoot it

Oh sorry I didn't write a 30 page summary of every little detail for you my bad.

How good was the D infont of TG when they went and got defensive specialist Brad Shaw? Nothing improved, goaltending had to bail this team out still, point is the D was crap and didn't matter if they brought in Brad Shaw to have better structure, they sucked and always did when Bruce came along and JR and Allvin were watching.

 

[RobertKron]

Oh sorry I didn't write a 30 page summary of every little detail for you my bad.

How good was the D infont of TG when they went and got defensive specialist Brad Shaw? Nothing improved, goaltending had to bail this team out still, point is the D was crap and didn't matter if they brought in Brad Shaw to have better structure, they sucked and always did when Bruce came along and JR and Allvin were watching.

I'm not sure I've translated all of this properly, but FWIW, Brad Shaw didn't handle the D under Travis Green. He only took over the D for a few months after Green and Baumgartner were fired.

 

[krutovsdonut]

It's kind of a wild that for a team in the position they've been in, they haven't had a pick play a single NHL game yet out of any draft since 2019.

Edit: The other teams in the same situation are Tampa, Vegas, Pittsburgh, and Boston.

we traded our first and second in 2020 and first and third in 2021. then we went for longshot raw potential in both drafts to compensate. not surprising we have only signed one player from those drafts so far and that one is a product of international relations.

looking back on the whole brackett drama, i wonder how much of it was him just foreseeing not having any high picks to work with for a while the way the team was going.

I'm not sure I've translated all of this properly, but FWIW, Brad Shaw didn't handle the D under Travis Green. He only took over the D for a few months after Green and Baumgartner were fired.

he didn't officially run the d under green, but he took on a very weird umbrella role so i assume he had input into the d.

 

[andora]

Oh sorry I didn't write a 30 page summary of every little detail for you my bad.

How good was the D infont of TG when they went and got defensive specialist Brad Shaw? Nothing improved, goaltending had to bail this team out still, point is the D was crap and didn't matter if they brought in Brad Shaw to have better structure, they sucked and always did when Bruce came along and JR and Allvin were watching.

 

[RobertKron]

we traded our first and second in 2020 and first and third in 2021. then we went for longshot raw potential in both drafts to compensate. not surprising we have only signed one player from those drafts so far and that one is a product of international relations.

looking back on the whole brackett drama, i wonder how much of it was him just foreseeing not having any high picks to work with for a while the way the team was going.


he didn't officially run the d under green, but he took on a very weird umbrella role so i assume he had input into the d.

Yeah, I understand why it is that way, but it's wild that they were operating that way.

I'm sure he had input on it, but the team had a whole other guy who was their D coach so it's weird to expect Shaw to have somehow been tasked with fixing the D when that wasn't even specifically his job.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

It's kind of a wild that for a team in the position they've been in, they haven't had a pick play a single NHL game yet out of any draft since 2019.

Edit: The other teams in the same situation are Tampa, Vegas, Pittsburgh, and Boston.

So you're saying Fatquilini has us hobnobbing with NHL royalty.

 

[tradervik]

Oh sorry I didn't write a 30 page summary of every little detail for you my bad.

It feels like you did, at least the 30 page part.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

It feels like you did, at least the 30 page part.

30 pages? We talking about Wetcoaster now?

It all started back in 1974 when Phil Maloney took over as GM....

[29 pages later]...and this is why Brian Burke sucks.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

I'm not sure I've translated all of this properly, but FWIW, Brad Shaw didn't handle the D under Travis Green. He only took over the D for a few months after Green and Baumgartner were fired.

So they hired Brad Shaw as an assistant coach in 2021 hand picked by Travis Green, but he had no input or handle on the D until Green was fired lol okay wow but ok

It feels like you did, at least the 30 page part.

Cool story bro

 

[DS7]

Hindsight time. But with the way the draft turned out, wouldn't have mind keeping those picks from the Hronek trade. Wallinder/Benson and Moore would have been great for our pool. Plus the 2nd (haven't any knowledge of the draft there) and another 4.4 mil to sign another D man.

But then again I wouldn't have bought out OEL And just tanked so incompatible with what the team is gunning for haha

 

[VanillaCoke]

No hindsight is required

 

[Diogenes92]

Hindsight time. But with the way the draft turned out, wouldn't have mind keeping those picks from the Hronek trade. Wallinder/Benson and Moore would have been great for our pool. Plus the 2nd (haven't any knowledge of the draft there) and another 4.4 mil to sign another D man.

But then again I wouldn't have bought out OEL And just tanked so incompatible with what the team is gunning for haha

But we're in "win-now" mode!

Having Petey, Hughes, Demko forces us to try as hard as we can to make the playoffs and "see what happens".

Little do the retoolies know, but this team is nowhere near a lock for the playoffs with the Hronek, Cole, Soucy additions.

We'll see what excuses the retoolies come up with if the Canucks once again crap the bed at the start of the season.

 

[DonnyNucker]

But we're in "win-now" mode!

Having Petey, Hughes, Demko forces us to try as hard as we can to make the playoffs and "see what happens".

Little do the retoolies know, but this team is nowhere near a lock for the playoffs with the Hronek, Cole, Soucy additions.

We'll see what excuses the retoolies come up with if the Canucks once again crap the bed at the start of the season.

The only way to get a rebuild is if Elias wants out. It is possible that the best outcome for the org is him walking. Sad but true

 

[drax0s]

Retoolies? What the f***.

 

[Diogenes92]

The only way to get a rebuild is if Elias wants out. It is possible that the best outcome for the org is him walking. Sad but true

If the upcoming season ends up being yet another disaster, I could see him pulling a Tkachuk.

I could see Petey holding out until there's actual proof that this team can at least squeak into the playoffs.

 

[strattonius]

If the upcoming season ends up being yet another disaster, I could see him pulling a Tkachuk.

I could see Petey holding out until there's actual proof that this team can at least squeak into the playoffs.

100%. That's why a lot of us didn't want to tank because bye-bye Elias. Then it's 5+ yrs of finding a 1C....maybe more.

It's weird how 2 posts ago you mocked fans that think we need to stay competitive to keep Pettersson, Hughes and Demko. Then your next post you admit Pettersson will walk if we suck.

 

[Diogenes92]

100%. That's why a lot of us didn't want to tank because bye-bye Elias. Then it's 5+ yrs of finding a 1C....maybe more.

It's weird how 2 posts ago you mocked fans that think we need to stay competitive to keep Pettersson, Hughes and Demko. Then your next post you admit Pettersson will walk if we suck.

So if you put those two things together, it equates to me not being bothered if he walks.

I am on record stating that I am perfectly fine with a scorched-earth rebuild.

I don't care if it takes 8+ years to get to a cup final. Its already been 12 years since the Canucks were last in a cup final. I'm still here.

Anything is better than wallowing in medocrity.

 

[credulous]

i think that the theory that ep and qh will walk if this team doesn't make the playoffs sells them way short. if either of them force their way out it'll be because they don't have faith in management to build a winner. you can't trick them by sneaking into the playoffs off the back of some short term moves

 

[strattonius]

So if you put those two things together, it equates to me not being bothered if he walks.

I am on record stating that I am perfectly fine with a scorched-earth rebuild.

I don't care if it takes 8+ years to get to a cup final. Its already been 12 years since the Canucks were last in a cup final. I'm still here.

Anything is better than wallowing in medocrity.

It's not realistic.

Why sit here and mock fans who oppose your implausible ideology.

 

[andora]

It's not realistic.

Why sit here and mock fans who oppose your implausible ideology.

Because its a win win.. playoffs and cheer or no playoffs and told you so

 

[Diogenes92]

It's not realistic.

Why sit here and mock fans who oppose your implausible ideology.

Its okay to dogpile on fans who want a full rebuild, but when they push back against those who want a half-a**ed retool its considered mocking?

Is a made-up term like Retoolies really offensive? I thought it was funny.

Because its a win win.. playoffs and cheer or no playoffs and told you so

**With the end goal of actually celebrating a Stanley cup.

You left out that important part.

 

[strattonius]

Its okay to dogpile on fans who want a full rebuild, but when they push back against those who want a half-a**ed retool its considered mocking?

That's an interesting victim complex.

 

[RandV]

i think that the theory that ep and qh will walk if this team doesn't make the playoffs sells them way short. if either of them force their way out it'll be because they don't have faith in management to build a winner. you can't trick them by sneaking into the playoffs off the back of some short term moves

It's not just that but also with Pettersson and Hughes who are top 10 players in their position we're not going to finish at the very bottom of the league, like a Chicago/Arizona/Anaheim.

 

[credulous]

It's not just that but also with Pettersson and Hughes who are top 10 players in their position we're not going to finish at the very bottom of the league, like a Chicago/Arizona/Anaheim.

that's true but that's completely different reasoning than 'we have to make the playoffs or we might lose pettersson/hughes'