Management Threads | Structure. Standards. Habits.
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Johnny Canucker
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- Jan 4, 2009
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If you have Ian Cole on your top paring and Chris Wolainen as an every day NHLer, your defense is trash.
We have 1 top pair D (Hughes)
We have 1 2nd pair D (Hronek)
And 3 3rd pair D (Cole, Myers, soucy)
We have 1 top pair D (Hughes)
We have 1 2nd pair D (Hronek)
And 3 3rd pair D (Cole, Myers, soucy)
8M kuz - 11M Petey - 4.75 Mik - 23.75
???? - 8M Miller - ????? - 20M budget
???? - ????? - ????? 10M budget
Min - min - min. - 2.3M
7.85M Hughes - ????? 11M budget
3.25M Soucy - 6.75M Hronek 10M
League min - ELC Willander 2M budget
5M Demko
??? 2M
4M OEL
So this budget is assuming that the cap will hit like 94M. It’s optimistic but you can take a 1-2M off like the 3rd line or wherever and it would still be fine.
I think it’s fair to employ a cap strategy to spend as little as you can on the 4th line and bottom paring. Who knows how much Pod and Hog will improve and earn but technically we can afford 2 6M cap hit on the 2nd line. Not saying it has to be distributed like that. If you have like 1 ELC like Lekkerimaki om it then you have more money to redistribute.
There is still plenty of money to go around. Like if you find a 2C and want to pay that person 8M, yes there is money for that.
If you find a 2D and want to pay him like 7M along with that 2C then we’ll just reduce the budget on the 3rd line and throw in an ELC.
Pastor Of Muppetz
Registered User
- Oct 1, 2017
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Cole wouldnt be on the first pairing, but would be a good complimentary player to Hronek on the second...Its not like he has to lead the rush or anything.
ChuckNorris4Cup
Registered User
- May 31, 2018
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It's almost like having Deja Vu right now with people on CDC, when they wanted to defend Loui Eriksson signing and questioning me for questioning management and their plan.
The point is JR was brought in from retirement from FA to get this team back into the playoffs to help FA make money. This management over evaluated the D and blamed the coach, got a new coach, the D still sucked, now realizes the D isn't as good as they thought, buy out OEL who wasn't supposed to be bought out according to them originally. Sold Bear as a future for this group going forward on a weak D who was over evaluated. Management even said after the 2022 season they were a few pieces away from being a playoff team, so went out and got some players, then it was major surgery is needed. Where's the major surgery? This management teams goal is to get them into the playoffs, but past has shown they're just winging it as it goes, their not evaluating the players properly, and their goal is to make FA happy with playoffs. What happens when Demko gets injured again? The season is done, the plan is just a mess.
The point is JR was brought in from retirement from FA to get this team back into the playoffs to help FA make money. This management over evaluated the D and blamed the coach, got a new coach, the D still sucked, now realizes the D isn't as good as they thought, buy out OEL who wasn't supposed to be bought out according to them originally. Sold Bear as a future for this group going forward on a weak D who was over evaluated. Management even said after the 2022 season they were a few pieces away from being a playoff team, so went out and got some players, then it was major surgery is needed. Where's the major surgery? This management teams goal is to get them into the playoffs, but past has shown they're just winging it as it goes, their not evaluating the players properly, and their goal is to make FA happy with playoffs. What happens when Demko gets injured again? The season is done, the plan is just a mess.
PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
It’s a process. They can’t go from a bottom 10 team to a contender in 1.5 years. They need to start with contending for a playoff spot. Hopefully a few years of incremental gains will eventually lead them to be a contender. I have my doubts but that’s the way to proceed at this point
Peen
Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
- Oct 6, 2013
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No, but I do hate this type of post.
They need to make the playoffs this year.
To do that, they put themselves in a spot where they have to make a lot of shrewd moves. Semi-unrealistic but yeah.
I would feel pretty good about things if they grabbed a 3c here.
I’ve felt pretty strongly since the Hronek trade that they needed to grab three D and two Cs. They’ve hit the nail on the head of the type of player and positional need on their first three. And on the contract type. Big credit, and they’ve got it from a majority of the fanbase. But the bar can’t be moved down just because they accomplished a few things. It’s a great july 1, but… team needs more
Like these guys clearly aren’t stupidly trying to trade for Tyson Barrie when the team need is for Chris Tanev. Or signing a #8 Poolman to #5 money to play top four minutes.
The order of priorities going forward:
1. Two-way matchup 3C. Plays strongly around the net on both ends. Values preventing goals. Honestly, the good version of Brandon Sutter. Manny Malhotra type. Whatever.
- small gap -
2. QH partner, but not a 5-6. Has to be a legitimate top four guy. I recommend another stop gap on a short term deal because it’ll be cheaper to acquire and they need to maintain flexibility for the OEL penalty years.
- medium gap -
3. They also need to figure out if Hoglander is going to be guaranteed an NHL spot. Because otherwise, he is waiver eligible. If he is on the roster, then I’m not sure if you want Podkolzin in the AHL again and should maybe trade him now. Hoglander shouldn’t be an asset you lose on waivers and I’d tell Tocchet to just deal with the problems in his game and shove him sheltered top nine ice time because he will produce. This is low-scale relative to team needs to be good, but it is a delicate situation that they need to plan for and not be “oh shit, oopsie”
- huge gap (deal with this over the next 12 months and see what shakes lose)
4. Add another bigger, stronger, defensive minded winger but with more hands than Mikheyev, Pearson & Podkolzin.
To do 1, 2, & 4 requires shedding Myers and 2 of Garland, Pearson, Boeser, Beauvillier.
But it’s the bed they’ve made.
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ChuckNorris4Cup
Registered User
- May 31, 2018
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Well JR said they were only a few pieces away from being a playoff team, so is he lying or just delusional.
Couldn't of bored you that much to take the time to quote me lol
ChuckNorris4Cup
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- May 31, 2018
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No they should of went through a proper rebuild like how literally every person in the hockey world has been saying for the last 3 years, instead FA wants playoff revenue hence bringing in JR to try and turn this team around as fast as possible.
I agree they should have traded Petterson etc. but they chose not to. You are still whining about this two years later? Chuck Norris would be ashamed
nowhereman
Registered User
Cole played with Cernak and took on Tampa's highest leverage minutes, so I don't think I'd call him a 3rd pairing defenseman. And everything about about Soucy, from his analytics to the eye test, suggests he is capable of playing #4 minutes.
After yesterday's moves, calling the defense trash is just not true. It's middle of the pack.
Christian Wolanin is coming off a season as the Eddie Shore Award winner, which goes to the AHL's most outstanding defenseman. He was the first AHL defenseman in over 40 years to average over an assist per game. His 1.12 points per game was the highest by a D-man in over 20 years. After coming out of college and entering the pro ranks he played more NHL games than AHL games for two teams. In other words, two other teams projected him as an NHL defenseman early in his career.
While I appreciate the caution, it's hard to argue that Wolanin doesn't deserve to be penciled into the opening night roster. Not because there's no one else but because he has shown he's earned it.
Saying the defense is trash because of his presence is not a credible statement.
Bubbles
Die Hard for Bedard 2023
Excellent points, which will be ignored.
It's like every year I hear that we're "one to two pieces" away....away from what exactly? Away from being a bubble team? Was Hronek supposed to push the team into the wildcard?
HairyKneel
Registered User
- Jun 5, 2023
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And yet Ian Cole played top 4 minutes in Tampa on both sides and played with all three of Cernak, Hedman and Sergachev.
Your next decent take will be your first.
Peen
Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
- Oct 6, 2013
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also, going from having two guys play at an nhl level (hughes, schenn) to theoretically four guys (qh + hronek, soucy, cole) is a big jump in itself. like i get why it’s depressing to look at myers still in the lineup but they should be running multiple competent pairings next year. if injuries hit, they are f***ed though. which is why the importance of adding another true top four guy is still there
ChuckNorris4Cup
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- May 31, 2018
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Why would any fan want the opportunity to get the #1 pick Bedard to play with Pettersson, when fans would enjoy being a bubble team instead...
well maybe you should look into the details.
We had like a historical bad PK that couldn’t be fixed without getting rid of OEL. It went from historic bad to 21st after OEL got injured. All the addition so far are targeted towards improving that. Not saying that we now have a top10 PK team but in order to be a consistent playoff team we need to get to that and I think the signings are pushing us towards at least an average PK team.
Our PP will probably be top10 again if Tocchet decides to play Kuz full time there and Hronek should improve pp2 by quite a bit.
So having a positive goal differential with Pp and PK should get us in the playoffs considering the team is quite even in ES.
Adding to this line of thought, just with our present day lineup people seem to be looking at it and saying it doesn't match up to last years playoffs team... but that kind of ignores the fact those didn't start that strong in the fall but added pieces through the season and primarily at the deadline.
Like right now we obviously look short a #1RD and a #3C before we gave any chance of contending. If we're a team that can make the playoffs on the other hand, then at the deadline you can acquire say Chris Tanev and Adam Henrique.
For the future lineup you're posting the idea is the core players have experience now and are confident at getting into the playoffs you can go for it and make those pushes.
credulous
Registered User
- Nov 18, 2021
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the canucks were a bottom 10 team 5v5 last year. even under tocchet with a soft schedule they were in the bottom half of the league
mossey3535
Registered User
- Feb 7, 2011
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What we need to do is stop paying for guys like Dumba and have guys from the AHL pushing for roster spots. It's nice to speculate about the "known quality" NHL guys but they are usually too expensive in the first place. No successful team gets there without bargain contracts at multiple spots.
I would get rid of Myers at any cost, his cap hit is worth more than anything and basically every guy from Juulsen to Brisebois has shown they can outplay him.
I like Boeser as a person but as a player he's an absolute boat anchor in both on-ice performance and contract. Garland is marginally useful but doesn't quite fit in anywhere. Guys like Joshua and Aman are where we should be trending.
I would get rid of Myers at any cost, his cap hit is worth more than anything and basically every guy from Juulsen to Brisebois has shown they can outplay him.
I like Boeser as a person but as a player he's an absolute boat anchor in both on-ice performance and contract. Garland is marginally useful but doesn't quite fit in anywhere. Guys like Joshua and Aman are where we should be trending.
Bubbles
Die Hard for Bedard 2023
We've seen NHL teams dump players for absolutely nothing all off season and yet those boat-anchor contracts are still on the Canucks.
which players were dumped for nothing? Also, why do you think the Canucks haven’t been able to dump their players ?
Team was a tire fire with BB. Then Tocchet played with like 2NHL centers and 4AHL D at all times. I thought the team was at least even at ES once they got the system.
I think it’s fair to project Petey’s line to crush the ES minutes. Not sure what to expect out of Miller, feels like we should ask Petey to take all the tough matchups because at worse it will be even and we’ll get our positive goal differential from Miller getting soft matchups. If we get a positive goal differential from the top2 lines this way and from the PK/PP, then we should be a playoff team.
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