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Management Thread | Who needs draft picks Edition

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I miss the twitter account Benning and the jets, the guy would use a filter to put Benning's face on his and he did a killer impression of Jim's voice.
 
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racerjoe said:
I would measure success as winning the cup would you not? Do you have a different goal? Since1 team wins a cup a year, at best 1 in 32 for rebuild. As we look more teams will retool and win the cup. The pens as we just spoke of, the Avs, Lightning, Hawks last two cups LA's Bostons, all retools.

I provided a few examples but you want to look at one... for reasons. I also gave you the Canucks under Gillis, could give you the Canucks under Burke, The Hawks second two cups, Lightning, and so Avs, and so on. Why are you getting so focused on one?

Seems to me more Retools succeed than rebuilds. Where as how many rebuilds is buffalo on? or Detroit is trying to redo it's rebuild.
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One example was isolated because we are comparing one to the other. What makes the Pittsburgh situation comparable to Vancouver? They were at worst a 6th overall team from 2014-16, the exact window of their supposed re-tool. Vancouver is 25th overall the last five years. Already, that is a chasm of difference between the two.

If we judge PIT and VAN by the same measure, that being the relative distance from winning the cup, it's night and day. It does not compare.

Take any of the other ones: CHI, COL, TBay etc... All of their core groups were built through a full rebuild first. They collected futures and retained their cap flexibility in order to capitalize later. Then, they re-tooled when necessary. They didn't cheat their rebuilds... Which is the first step in any eventual cup winner.
 
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How many Canadian teams would you trade rosters with?

Toronto
Ottawa
Montreal
Winnipeg
Calgary
Edmonton
 
Bleach Clean said:
One example was isolated because we are comparing one to the other. What makes the Pittsburgh situation comparable to Vancouver? They were at worst a 6th overall team from 2014-16, the exact window of their supposed re-tool. Vancouver is 25th overall the last five years. Already, that is a chasm of difference between the two.

If we judge PIT and VAN by the same measure, that being the relative distance from winning the cup, it's night and day. It does not compare.

Take any of the other ones: CHI, COL, TBay etc... All of their core groups were built through a full rebuild first. They collected futures and retained their cap flexibility in order to capitalize on the future. Then, they re-tooled when necessary. They didn't cheat their rebuild... Which is the first step in any eventual cup winner.
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You missed the two times Vancouver did it I notice, and the FLA time.
 
racerjoe said:
I don't think that is a fair way to judge when a team should be good. the Sabres picked inside the top 10 for 10 years and we all have called their rebuild a fail at different points.
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Racer, does the exception prove the rule? If the predominant number of cup winners performed a rebuild first, does BUF failing a rebuild disprove the rebuild method itself?
 
Bleach Clean said:
Which times did VAN and FLA re-tool without rebuilding, and then went onto win the cup?
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Now you are moving goal posts.

Sorry but Vancouver retooling winning a pres trophy and making it to game 7 counts, and so should Florida retooling and winning the pres trophy.

Bleach Clean said:
Racer, does the exception prove the rule? If the predominant number of cup winners performed a rebuild first, does BUF failing a rebuild disprove the rebuild method itself?
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As has been said Vancouver did rebuild... that is why we have Hughes and Pettersson. We did a bad job of it and that is why we now have to retool it.
 
racerjoe said:
Now you are moving goal posts.

Sorry but Vancouver retooling winning a pres trophy and making it to game 7 counts, and so should Florida retooling and winning the pres trophy.
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I would measure success as winning the cup would you not?


You said this, not me. But you know what, let's give it to you for the sake of argument. Let's say a botched re-tool can be re-tooled. What is the likelihood of it happening in 2 years? That same Canucks team you have referenced was out of the playoffs 7 of the 8 years prior to the Sedins coming on board.

And absolutely not: Vancouver did not rebuild here. A rebuild constitutes an active gathering of futures and using cap space as a weapon. That didn't happen here. Here, a re-tool failed, which somehow makes this regime think it can re-tool and succeed. It was never a rebuild.
 
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The part I don’t understand is being in salary Cap Hell and trading high draft picks for players who will be making 7-8 million in 2 years time? It’s literally repeating the same cycle that just failed miserably and they are doubling down on it?

I’m not comparing OEL and Hronek as players/age/progression as much as I’m comparing salary going forward and not capitalizing on ELC contracts that punch above their weight class or properly rebuilding the Defence through the draft.

With Pettersson/Hronek raise’s approaching, Miller, Kuzmenko kicking in next year all we can do at this point is lose players and not gain any on the Roster going forward to improve.
 
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Bleach Clean said:
I would measure success as winning the cup would you not?


You said this, not me. But you know what, let's give it to you for the sake of argument. Let's say a botched re-tool can be re-tooled. What is the likelihood of it happening in 2 years? That same Canucks team you have referenced was out of the playoffs 7 of the 8 years prior to the Sedins coming on board.

And absolutely not: Vancouver did not rebuild here. A rebuild constitutes an active gathering of futures and using cap space as a weapon. That didn't happen here. Here, a re-tool failed, which somehow makes this regime think it can re-tool and succeed. It was never a rebuild.
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This here is the problem... you want everything to be exactly the same or it doesn't count. You will never have two things exactly the same.

Your rebuild has to be X... but why?

This doesn't count because... reasons... but why?

The fact is teams have been in a similar position as us, how they got there... who cares. then retooled and succeeded. Yes won cups.
 
Buresflyingelbow said:
The part I don’t understand is being in salary Cap Hell and trading high draft picks for players who will be making 7-8 million in 2 years time? It’s literally repeating the same cycle that just failed miserably and they are doubling down on it?

I’m not comparing OEL and Hronek as players/age/progression as much as I’m comparing salary going forward and not capitalizing on ELC contracts that punch above their weight class or properly rebuilding the Defence through the draft.

With Pettersson/Hronek raise’s approaching, Miller, Kuzmenko kicking in next year all we can do at this point is lose players and not gain any on the Roster going forward to improve.
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Havnt you heard from the last 8 years?
Capspace doesnt matter bro
 
LordBacon said:
Havnt you heard from the last 8 years?
Capspace doesnt matter bro
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Well.. outside of having the money to re sign our top players, which we have.. it is beginning to get totally overblown as a fad - the weaponize cap space anthem

I mean sure we could have space and hoard 3rd 4th and 5th round picks cause of it.. whoo (or go sign players better than mid rounders which it appears we are focusing on)

But of course it depends on how Allvin manipulates his.. maybe it doesnt
 
Orr4Norris said:
I keep hearing about a cycle of mediocrity but this team has a ways to go before they are ‘mediocre’
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What does it say that Quinn is miles away going to put together the best season by a Canucks defenseman and Petey is going to be challenging Naslund's career high of 104 and we still can't ice a winning club?

If the major surgery is done, my hopes aren't that high for next season. Like I said last year, the absolute best-case scenario for this team in the short-run future is WCE-esque results. I'm not sure how much you can do to the roster to change that. I think Hronek will push the needle, but he's one guy.
 
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andora said:
Well.. outside of having the money to re sign our top players, which we have.. it is beginning to get totally overblown as a fad - the weaponize cap space anthem

I mean sure we could have space and hoard 3rd 4th and 5th round picks cause of it.. whoo (or go sign players better than mid rounders which it appears we are focusing on)

But of course it depends on how Allvin manipulates his.. maybe it doesnt
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Not saying having capspace and a couple of later round picks can turn this ship made of dried up dung around in a hurry but it surely would benefit the team.
Its a way less costly gamle than signing/trading for the likes of Hronek or other UFAs.
If we were legit contending for the cup Im all for it but as of right now I'd rather they do the "weaponize cap space" thingy instead of this quick retool arc 9.
 
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