Management Thread | Who needs draft picks Edition

[rea]

I love the logic of the super positive ones in here, talking about buyouts and whatnot, and how you will shape a new team. So being willing to handicap yourself in a league with rising salaries, against a cap that stays stagnant. The ones who speak like this sound like we aren't tied down by dead dollars dollars or haven't seen the outcome of that, while thinking that the cap is going to jump 10m every year or something. Salary retention, etc, w the contracts y'all wanna move which would be added millions against your cap, but u think signing players u want are going to be cheap? If for nothing else, this is why draft picks is huge equity and cost controlled players are necessary. I'm sure every team in the league is wanting to throw the Canucks all their picks for such studs as jt Miller and boeser all while having the cap to do it.

 

[dez]

Once Hronek gets in the lineup + Demko shaking off the rust and returning to form + whatever other win now acquisition they make at the deadline, I can see them getting pushed to a 10-12 pick at that point I fully expect them to trade that pick too at the draft. Might as well go full Canuck.

 

[mossey3535]

After a little time to think, objectively this would have been a good trade without the 2nd.

In my mind, to do this re-tool, the team needed these things (in order):

1) A 2nd pair puck-moving defenceman (handedness irrelevant)
2) A RHD to stabilize the QH pairing
3) ANY Abby defender gets promoted long-term
4) Home run on either a NCAA FA or a 2023 draft pick

The other game Quinn played with every pair after Bear went out and despite it being completely unsustainable, it looked great! A bunch of AHL guys worked against Boston, then didn't work against DAL. I've come around to the thought now that the core issue isn't that we don't have a guy to play with Quinn - he can basically play with anyone. The issue is that we've trotted Myers-OEL out there night after night and at best they were adequate but at worst they sank the whole team.

Another thing that has been evident for a LONG time is that QH is the only defenceman we have who can move the puck effectively to our forwards. So for me, a 2nd pair puck mover was our number one need. For awhile I thought Rathbone might step up but that remains to be seen. Hronek COULD be that, and I hope he is. Because now we are stuck with him.

Now, we need to get someone to play with Quinn. No, Schenn isn't qualified, He barely worked on that pair the first time around and now I don't think he's an everyday NHL player. I think Bear is too small and would be better suited on the 2nd or 3rd pair.

The last two points are basically luck based. I believe that the reason that you can't pooh-pooh draft picks is because you need a Byram-type on an ELC to help you compete on the cheap. You need a 1-2 year surprise out of a draft pick if you're in your window, the prospect pipeline is a nice added effect.

Byram was a #4 overall pick so this isn't a perfect comparison but he comes to mind when I think about a fortuitous case of accelerated development, Cal Foote played 13 playoff games by his 2nd year. Cirelli jumped in on an ELC (3rd round pick) right away. Even though there's luck involved you can always give yourself a better chance of winning the lottery simply by buying more tickets.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Apparently the Flyers are trying to move Provorov and I could see the Canucks doing that one too. 2023 first and 2024 first. All in.

 

[gringo]

it's because for once, THE ENTIRE Canuck fan base, includes our bros from Canucks.com and reddit, we thought for once, ok we will tank this year, and add draft capital for at least 2023. It was something we were looking forward too. for once it seems like the ownership is ok with one tank year, Its suppose to be 2 or 3, ok, we will forget this season, tank hard, add draft picks, but nope.

Our management does a next-level bull shit, which did the opposite. We traded 3 1st rounders in the past 4 years. This is how bad things are and finally, Canuck fans had enough! My expecations were too add more picks, so it turns out its not, so are we even tanking or not? This guy add immediate help to our lineup, which will actually hurt our tank odds. ! also he's not a partner for Hughes! hes' not an ideal partner for Hughes, he's another offensive dman that plays a solid game! wtf is this!!! Yea i'm upset!

Even the casual construction site fans that just want to crush beers and cheer on goals were excited for two first round picks

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Even the casual construction site fans that just want to crush beers and cheer on goals were excited for two first round picks

Well when your team sucks horribly for 10 years you cheer the little things. Getting a d-man for multiple high picks that maybe moves you from 26th worst to 24th worst team in the league really doesn't mean much.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Even if Hronek becomes a solid second pairing guy who scores 40-50 points a year does it make us any closer to being an actual legit playoff team?

No one in the system is even close to making an impact and lots of other steams are in the same current situation with incredible pipeline to makes things better.

The player isn't the problem it's management and really ownership with this "let's make the playoffs" and totally disregarding how poorly constructed out organization is.

But heck I'm in my mid 50s and this has been the Canucks basically forever.


This sounds like every Canuck offseason for like the last 10 years....if these 7 things happen then we might have a chance then we talk about the 4th liners they signed to get to the Cap.

Pure insanity.

the wisdom of a strategy of a retool is a whole other thing. put that aside for a second and look at the execution of a retool.

look at the gamble you can retool with hronek as a foundational defence core piece worth the main return of the best trade piece you had for such a retool.

that means hronek has to be a 1d on the right side which is the same gig that gudbranson was anointed to take on. except this existing squad is a much bigger shambles than benning inherited, especially on the right side.

you don't even need to debate whether a retool is a good idea if they blow this attempt.

 

[Bubbles]

Nothing makes sense.

The thought process from JR was that he wanted to keep draft picks. He initially believed the team was weak in transition and was relatively easy to play against.

Doubles down on the roster by committing salary and term to Boeser, Mikaylev and Miller and f*** over whatever cap flexibility they had. They got a fortunate break in that Poolman ended up on LTIR but not after tossing a 2nd round pick away to clear Dickinson.

They went for it and things went to hell. They sold the pieces they could. They were maybe looking at weaponizing cap space...but have instead made a move to challenge for a playoff spot in 2023-24. Now they are really screwed in that they HAVE to clear cap space. No way around this.

Teams are going to ask for a premium for the players they want to move and I could see the Canucks brass parting with a majority of their 2024 and 2025 picks and several prospects to get this done. I also see them buying out OEL to add more cap space.

This management group has been given a directive to win now and turn this around and you really needed a group to really get things right. I have zero faith in these guys though. Unforced errors sunk them in the first offseason and now they have really put their own backs against the wall for 2023-24.

It's so typically Canuck to trade an extra 1st AND a 2nd in an extremely deep draft. And a high 2nd at that because how crap they are.

Watch them sign a middling free agent in the off season and claim it will fix their problems.

And they're winning games when it's meaningless and disadvantageous for them to win. In the Bedard draft of all drafts. Just as I said, and others have said, for years and years.

It's a good thing I've been detached for so long. Watching junior hockey has been way more entertaining.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Once Hronek gets in the lineup + Demko shaking off the rust and returning to form + whatever other win now acquisition they make at the deadline, I can see them getting pushed to a 10-12 pick at that point I fully expect them to trade that pick too at the draft. Might as well go full Canuck.

Who cares about the pick. Odds are they trade it for a 2nd pairing d-man for their playoff push next year.

 

[Coffee]

I can see them getting pushed to a 10-12 pick at that point I fully expect them to trade that pick too at the draft. Might as well go full Canuck.

not sure if serious, but man that’s sad that you think that.
Not sad on you, but the fact the franchise has made you feel that way.

We’ll still get a bluechip prospect this year.
We’ll be fine.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

not sure if serious, but man that’s sad that you think that.
Not sad on you, but the fact the franchise has made you feel that way.

We’ll still get a bluechip prospect this year.
We’ll be fine.

I mean fine as in "will exist" but the Canucks are likely in for a long period of no playoffs to come at this rate. This is very much shades of the last 10 years.

 

[Jay26]

It’s not as simple as just “bottom dweller team so collect draft picks”. Bottom dweller teams tend not to have pieces like 100 plus point C and 80 point D who are 23 and 24 years old already in place. You build around those pieces, not wait 4 or 5 years for your draft picks to mature.

That’s my philosophy anyways. You have a different approach.

Well the Canucks are an entirely different beast. They keep having losing seasons and finishing at the bottom of the standings in spite of those players. They're still left in the same position as a rebuilding team with no talent.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Well the Canucks are an entirely different beast. They keep having losing seasons and finishing at the bottom of the standings in spite of those players. They're still left in the same position as a rebuilding team with no talent.

Not true.

 

[Jay26]

Not true.

Seeing what you highlighted in bold, you likely misread my comment. I wasn't saying the Canucks have no talent, I was saying they keep finishing in the same position as a rebuilding team that doesn't have any talent.

 

[geebaan]

11 f***ing years of the same thought processes producing the same results. What’s the definition of insanity again?

 

[elitepete]

Alright I’m going to just say it now. I don’t think a full rebuild is the way to go. *ducks*

Not saying the moves that management have been making are any good. If it were up to me, Miller and Boeser would have been traded last offseason at the absolute latest.

IMO it doesn’t make sense to rebuild when you have a 1C, 1D, 1G. We have all of them.

 

[JohnHodgson]

Alright I’m going to just say it now. I don’t think a full rebuild is the way to go. *ducks*

Not saying the moves that management have been making are any good. If it were up to me, Miller and Boeser would have been traded last offseason at the absolute latest.

IMO it doesn’t make sense to rebuild when you have a 1C, 1D, 1G. We have all of them.

Shhhh. You can’t have opposing opinions here or you’ll get ridiculed. Delete it quick!!!

 

[IComeInPeace]

I’m just glad the rebuild is complete.
Those were 4 really long weeks wondering if we’d ever be a contender again.

 

[4th line culture]

not sure if serious, but man that’s sad that you think that.
Not sad on you, but the fact the franchise has made you feel that way.

We’ll still get a bluechip prospect this year.
We’ll be fine.

We wont be fine, we arent fine. This is the darkest timeline. There is no light, only dark

 

[wetcoast]

100% agreed. i think going for it now is just about the worst plan possible but it's what i expect them to do. they'll make a selection with their first and their 6 selections in the first 120 picks of the draft (5 of them being from 60 on) and talk about how they're very excited about what it means for the future of the club and then they'll make a bunch of short sighted 'win now' moves that maybe lets them squeak into the playoffs

it's the same no-plan plan they've been running since gillis left. if we could just get a jared mccann for one of our overpaid dmen or pick up a player like forsling on waivers or we had a prospect like mukhamadullin or guenther to step into the lineup maybe it can work out...

And the band played on.. ownership should be held accountable by the paying fans but they won't be.

 

[wetcoast]

Alright I’m going to just say it now. I don’t think a full rebuild is the way to go. *ducks*

Not saying the moves that management have been making are any good. If it were up to me, Miller and Boeser would have been traded last offseason at the absolute latest.

IMO it doesn’t make sense to rebuild when you have a 1C, 1D, 1G. We have all of them.

Sure we have a 1c,1d and 1g and we also had Horvat and JT Miller and a good Russian rookie and we were out of the playoffs early on really.

We also have a crappy pipeline, other teams have larger and better cores with better pieces coming , we keep trading our second rounder's and totally missing on the limited number of high picks we retain.

The light at the end of the tunnel is the train driven by ownership.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Alright I’m going to just say it now. I don’t think a full rebuild is the way to go. *ducks*

Not saying the moves that management have been making are any good. If it were up to me, Miller and Boeser would have been traded last offseason at the absolute latest.

IMO it doesn’t make sense to rebuild when you have a 1C, 1D, 1G. We have all of them.

assuming you want to retool, which i agree we may have to do to extend pettersson, what do you think of hronek as a retool move? do you think we outsmarted yzerman and targeted and stole a 1d from under his nose just as his team is becoming competitive? if not, do you think it was a smart use of retool resources to spend the single best return on the best asset we are moving on a 2d?

 

[Jyrki21]

I never made it around here yesterday but, man... there are some very stupid people online, I don't know what to say. Had to rant a bit.





This rant was originally also going to address the absurdity of "Draft picks mostly don't turn out, so it's good to trade them", "Aquilini wants to win a Cup for his Dad, so he needs the team to compete now" and "The Sedins Petey/Hughes won't suffer a rebuild so we need to be mediocre in the present."

NONE of these should have people making these arguments in 2023. Not functional adults, anyway.

 

[Gurn]

Oh my god - the whining here is next level.

Just unbearable.

You guys acted like we traded away Petey for a 2nd round pick.

If it truly was unbearable- you would leave.
But you seem hell bent on staying here, to express your sense of superior knowledge and hockey acumen

 

[Peen]

i mean if we are winning the lottery, finding a 3c, two matchup D, and clearing cap at no cost - these guys are geniuses and this will definitely be a justifiable move

but again - i point to us having the 99th percentile of best possible outcomes with the JTM trade and it doing absolutely f*** all for us. Zero. We have still been shit his entire time here.