Oliewud
Registered User
- May 13, 2013
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Management Thread | The Song Remains the Same Edition
- Thread starter Mr. Canucklehead
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PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
platotld
Fly Canucks Fly
No, still the same, where I was wrong is that it did not add two years. I could care less. Istill would rather dump him take the cap hits and rebuild with other players. Your statement is somewhat false.
drax0s
Registered User
TBH, Beauvillier. At ~$2m per year he's a pretty decent playoff pickup, imo. If he doesn't immediately click on this roster, we should be looking at doing that at the deadline. I might even do it even if he clicks.
You said the cap burden would not be extended. The reality is the opposite. How am I false?
Diogenes92
Registered User
If the Canucks trade Demko in the next few months, does that all but guarantee that Pettersson ditches at the end of his deal?
Is it possible he's already voiced his frustrations with the direction of the team and all of the losing, leading to management shifting their preferred direction?
I think its at least a small possibilty.
Is it possible he's already voiced his frustrations with the direction of the team and all of the losing, leading to management shifting their preferred direction?
I think its at least a small possibilty.
Bojack Horvatman
IAMGROOT
- Jun 15, 2016
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“Hey Elias it’s Patrik. So we’re probably not going to make the playoffs again in the last year of your contract. I have a real good feeling about 2024, so please sign long-term instead of testing the market… Hello Elias.”
“Hey Elias it’s Patrik again. Since we signed Dumba and Severson to long term deals and improved the blue line brick by brick, you will need to take the Barzal deal if you want to stay… Hello are you still there?”
“Hey Elias it’s Patrik again. Since we signed Dumba and Severson to long term deals and improved the blue line brick by brick, you will need to take the Barzal deal if you want to stay… Hello are you still there?”
Lets say we agree the value of the trades were equal or even slightly better for the Miller deal at the time of the deal (I think at the time Chytil was not looked at like that but whatever). The major difference is actually the value of Miller at the time. Miller would not have been looked at as a rental, and should have had a lot more value. And that assumes both players would be looked at as the same talent level, when personally I do think Miller is the better player.
So we really should have been getting a much better deal for Miller than we could get now for Bo.
Personally I think this deal comes down to what you value this first as. I see it as worth a lot more than a late first in a normal draft. I think it will be a very good pick and turn out better value. This is just my opinion obviously but that is how I see it.
Absolutely. I have been in the camp, going back to early last season, that Miller's max trade value was at last season's TDL as a super 2-run rental. In theory, he should've been more valuable then than Horvat was now.
On the separate questions of do I think the rumoured Chytil package and the current Horvat package are equivalent, and whether I would rather have the Chytil package than Miller, the answers are yes.
I don't think Miller is or ever was a better player, however.
And yeah, I've said in other post, the key piece of this Horvat trade is the first-round pick. It's clearly not a late first-rounder. It will likely end up in the mid-teens. There will be very good prospects available there from this draft class.
This is why the "we must sign Kuzmenko to convince Pettersson to stay" arguments never made a lick of sense. Okay, you keep Kuz to placate Petey. Then go and turn around and trade Horvat and Demko? How does that make sense to "convince" Pettersson of anything?
Canucker
Go Hawks!
I think a small argument can be made that if you take away a linemate that affects Petey's production, you're affecting his ability to maximize the amount of money he might be able to collect...but I think his overall happiness with the organization in general is more likely going to be the catalyst of whether or not he wants to stay.
Looking backwards is always a 'heart-burning moment for Canuck fans. But consider this. A total of four players: Tofoli, Dickinson, OEL and Garland, cost the Canucks a top-10 overall pick; three second round draft picks and a third rounder for good measure.
The Canucks traded a second to the Kings for 10 games of Tofoli. They gave up a top-10 pick and a high second for OEL and Garland; and for the 'piece de resistance' they traded a third for Dickinson, then had to cough up another second rounder just to unload his contract.
Imagine a lottery team like the Canucks trading a high first rounder; three seconds and a third for guys who either aren't even here anymore, or are buyout candidates like OEL and Garland.
And after all that, the Canucks are STILL a lottery team! You can't make this kind of incompetence up. But "Bruce, there it is."
The Canucks traded a second to the Kings for 10 games of Tofoli. They gave up a top-10 pick and a high second for OEL and Garland; and for the 'piece de resistance' they traded a third for Dickinson, then had to cough up another second rounder just to unload his contract.
Imagine a lottery team like the Canucks trading a high first rounder; three seconds and a third for guys who either aren't even here anymore, or are buyout candidates like OEL and Garland.
And after all that, the Canucks are STILL a lottery team! You can't make this kind of incompetence up. But "Bruce, there it is."
At the time I really wasn't a fan of either Chytil or Lundkvist. So if I judge pure with at the time of the offer, I was very low on the NYR package. Thats how I still look at that package, yes things panned out, but that would have been getting lucky on Chytil for sure, and I am not sure if Lundkvist finds the same success here mainly as we don't have steady LHD to play him with.
The way I would judge the two packages is I think the most impactful piece of either one is the 1st in NYI deal. I think there is a high probability it is top 15 this year or top 10 next year. So for that reason only, I think the NYI package is better.
Most likely. If they trade Demko a full rebuild has to be the way to go. It also would make their previous moves bizarre such as the Boeser, Miller, and Mikheyev signings.
Diogenes92
Registered User
The organization has been confused for a decade.
Not really. As bad as we was, I knew Benning’s goal was the playoffs. I thought the current managements goal was playoffs but their recent moves leave skeptical.
Diogenes92
Registered User
Wanting to make the playoffs with those rosters that Benning churned out sort of points at them being confused.
Nucker101
Foundational Poster
- Apr 2, 2013
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If they deal Demko for futures then it signals a “we f***ed up and we’re going to rebuild” plan which is pretty exciting even if they’ve shot themselves in the foot with the Miller deal.
I’m still not convinced that’s the plan though.
Yeah, I think the NYI 1st is the singularly most valuable piece. But NYI could also scrape in the playoffs and then the value of that pick becomes greatly diminished.
I was much higher on Chytil than consensus. Even before this season, he was already a very competent defensive player and his even-strength rate scoring was actually decent. There was definitely more there that was untapped, and he's having somewhat of a breakout season now.
Demko has 3 years after this remaining. He could go to management and ask out. Goalie market is what it is. Contracts need to line up in order for a move. Just the reality of it. Cali market is going to be open for business in SJ and LA. But, never a fan of dealing goalies in division unless it's for a premium return.
But, Demko has to also be sure he has his game in order because not every team has a good goalie coach. So, he needs to ensure his game is back on track first.
Lundqvist is kind of a dud. He had a nice first few games in Dallas but is bleeding goals from sheltered #6 minutes on a top team and has been a healthy scratch several times. I'm not sure there's a lot there.
Chytil has had a nice breakthrough from being a Newhook type fringe middle-6 guy into a solid 2nd liner. That would probably have justified the deal with the benefit of hindsight, but I don't know that you could have gone to the bank on a 6-goal guy turning into a guy pacing for 30 goals.
Bojack Horvatman
IAMGROOT
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I was higher on Chytil than most because he had a very good 2020-21 season where he was 0.5 ES points per game in the shortened season. Down year the year before. But averaged 30 ES points per 82 over the 3 previous seasons. I thought he was a good bet to be a 50+ point second line guy with an increased role. Ideally I wanted a better piece than what Chytil was at the time though for 2 playoff runs with Miller. Especially if we were retaining.
I also absolutely hated the arguments against him where they would use his career points against him when he was in the NHL as a teenager. Could do that for a lot of players. Like Kesler, Horvat, JT Miller, etc.
He’s eerily similar then to Newhook now. Around 30 ES points, not much PP usage, is he a C or a wing?
He wouldn’t have been a bad piece for a rental but for 2 years of Miller on a bargain contract this seemed like a *really* underwhelming central piece.
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