Management Thread | The Song Remains the Same Edition

[PG Canuck]

Lundkvist, Chytil, 1st wasn’t enough for Miller but Beauvillier, Raty, 1st was enough for Horvat.

If the contract extension prioritization of Miller before Horvat wasn’t enough indication of who they preferred (obviously it was), this return emphasizes it.

Lundkvist filled a much bigger need and I like Chytil over Beauvillier. Realistically I take both these deals, tank hard, get a Bedard/Fantilli and draft a dman in the 13-16 range.

Too bad.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

As I said before. Same management group as with Benning. Targeting the same players, making the same type of moves.

Absolutely nothing has changed but the name plate on the door.

No no no...

Disagree.

The plan is the same to try to accelerate the re-whatever-it-is-at-this-point and push the problems further down the road.

 

[PredsForPresidents]

So question here now, how does the media view the managements treating of Horvat now?

Because the Canucks are going to have a hell of a time building their rep back up after the Boudreau debacle. Hopefully it blows over but the Canucks are going to have a significant lack of players that want to either stay for cheap or sign a decent deal to play in Van without a major overlay.

Does this add or subtract brownie points for them?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Because you can’t bring young players onto a team where OeL is setting the veteran example

Why do you keep repeating this?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Fun fact.

Next summers UFA class of right handed Dmen sortet by points this year.

(Obviously not all of the top5 will even make it to free agency. Addison and Bouchard are surely signed before that)

 

[racerjoe]

Lundkvist, Chytil, 1st wasn’t enough for Miller but Beauvillier, Raty, 1st was enough for Horvat.

If the contract extension prioritization of Miller before Horvat wasn’t enough indication of who they preferred (obviously it was), this return emphasizes it.

Lundkvist filled a much bigger need and I like Chytil over Beauvillier. Realistically I take both these deals, tank hard, get a Bedard/Fantilli and draft a dman in the 13-16 range.

Too bad.

Miller had an extra year and wasn't a rental at the time. If we traded Bo with a year left we would have gotten more.

 

[gringo]

Why do you keep repeating this?

Because I would literally give my left nut for a Time Machine to stop that trade.

Miller had an extra year and wasn't a rental at the time. If we traded Bo with a year left we would have gotten more.

His numbers last year weren’t nearly as good

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Because I would literally give my left nut for a Time Machine to stop that trade.

Oh yeah. Absolutely.

But I dont think OEL is a bad guy in the room or around prospects.

He is just a formerly good Dman playing on one leg.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Lundkvist, Chytil, 1st wasn’t enough for Miller but Beauvillier, Raty, 1st was enough for Horvat.

If the contract extension prioritization of Miller before Horvat wasn’t enough indication of who they preferred (obviously it was), this return emphasizes it.

Lundkvist filled a much bigger need and I like Chytil over Beauvillier. Realistically I take both these deals, tank hard, get a Bedard/Fantilli and draft a dman in the 13-16 range.

Too bad.

comparing the two 1sts is the biggest distinction in value here. The NYR 1st round pick in 2022 was 30th overall (assuming adding Miller wouldn’t have pushed them further into the playoffs) in a fairly weak draft (ended up being Lambert). The NYI pick might be 13-20th overall in a deeper draft, or potentially a high pick in 2024.

 

[platotld]

Umm... are you not actually looking at the thing you are posting?

There is a $2.1M cap charge from 27-28 to 30-31 that would not otherwise be there if you just wait for the contract to expire. Yes, buying him out extends the cap burden, clearly.

yes you are correct, i didn't read it properly. I'm still down for the move myself.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

comparing the two 1sts is the biggest distinction in value here. The NYR 1st round pick in 2022 was 30th overall (assuming adding Miller wouldn’t have pushed them further into the playoffs) in a fairly weak draft (ended up being Lambert). The NYI pick might be 13-20th overall in a deeper draft, or potentially a high pick in 2024.

There is a world where Miller attempts to rage-slash the net and hits Shesterkin by accident for not leaving the net for a delayed penalty fast enough, and the Rangers tank the rest of the year.

 

[bossram]

yes you are correct, i didn't read it properly. I'm still down for the move myself.

So the rationale for doing it is actually the opposite of what you thought. But you still want to do it.

Hmmm....

 

[bossram]

comparing the two 1sts is the biggest distinction in value here. The NYR 1st round pick in 2022 was 30th overall (assuming adding Miller wouldn’t have pushed them further into the playoffs) in a fairly weak draft (ended up being Lambert). The NYI pick might be 13-20th overall in a deeper draft, or potentially a high pick in 2024.

Chytil is also a better asset than Raty (that's probably what you'd want Raty to turn into), and Lundkvist clearly holds a lot more value than Beauvillier (he was traded for a 2023 1st).

I think the total value in each package is about the same.

And the club would be in a much better place going forward had they executed on the Miller proposal.

 

[theguardianII]

Now that it is established the Canucks will retain some money if needed.

They have two more retention spots

Who on the team is too expensive for other teams? With the Canucks willing to use cap space just about any player could be valuable to any team.

Doing the Horvat trade early might cause other teams to do deals with the Canucks with more urgency.

Did Rutherford just manipulate the TDL? Force it earlier? Encourage more desperation to do business with the Canucks because they will use retention?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

ok so remember when buffalo had an incredible nucleus that went to the eastern finals back to back years and chose chris drury over briere, lost both, and then left themselves open to the disastrous vanek offer sheet?

we already have chosen jt over bo. but is the other shoe about to drop petey having finally seen enough and asking for a trade in the summer?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

ok so remember when buffalo had an incredible nucleus that went to the eastern finals back to back years and chose chris drury over briere, lost both, and then left themselves open to the disastrous vanek offer sheet?

we already have chosen jt over bo. but is the other shoe about to drop petey having finally seen enough and asking for a trade in the summer?

Petey offersheet.

The Sabres could do us real dirty with one.

 

[BrentSopelsHair]

OEL with 50% retention? About 20 teams in on that for 3.7 mil for a veteran PP Qback.

Lol, and also lmao

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

OEL with 50% retention? About 20 teams in on that for 3.7 mil for a veteran PP Qback.

No, just no. He has 4 PP points despite being a mainstay on the 2nd unit and playing the 1st unit for a few games when Hughes was injured.

He has four more years and he’ll be 32 years old to start the season. He’s gotten worse over the last year and will likely continue to decline given his knee and mobility issues. He isn’t offensively gifted anymore. He might have neutral value at like $2 million for 2-3 years.

 

[iceburg]

ok so remember when buffalo had an incredible nucleus that went to the eastern finals back to back years and chose chris drury over briere, lost both, and then left themselves open to the disastrous vanek offer sheet?

we already have chosen jt over bo. but is the other shoe about to drop petey having finally seen enough and asking for a trade in the summer?

I don't think the major surgery is over yet. If EP sees that the team is committed to getting younger and more competitive, and he is captain of that team, he will want to stay. The weird big anomaly in the mix is the Miller extension. I think management is ready to hand this team over to EP. Having Miller here for another 7 years doesn't fit that strategy.


I'll add:

Whether they had a letter or not the leadership group going into the season was:
Horvat
Miller
Myers
OEL
Pearson
Schenn

After this off season I expect only Miller will remain. That's pretty major surgery.

 

[theguardianII]

Have to change the sub title on this thread.

Schenn is traded before TDL,

Boeser traded because Tocchet likes Garland around TDL

Burroughs if something around a 4th pick.

If Miller is dealt at all there are two times it could happen, this TDL with retention on the current expiring contract which IMO would get more in return or at the draft before his current contract expires but for less they may even have to add a sweetener

Demko could go anytime, this TDL or at the draft. Better at TDL if they can get him a couple of games in where he looks good before the TDL just to show health.

Then Beauvilier or Garland.

I do think a trade with Edmonton that includes Schenn, Lazar and Joshua (maybe a very late draft pick too) is possible with Puljujarvi coming back with, my hope/preference McLeod.

Why Vancouver would do this is obvious, age and second chances
Poolparty is 24 and McLeod is 23

Why Edmonton does it, defensive dman with Cup experience that hits, fights and is great in the room,
Lazar and Joshua are 3rd/4th liners, big hitters energy type guys that know their roles, cost effective and centers/wingers with Lazar with a reputation of being a good PK guy and Joshua wins FO's
They move on from Puljujarvi, really a top six talent that never got a real good chance behind Dras, RNH and McD, really a center.
Why they let McLeod go, the immergence of Holloway and Kostin.
They save on cap space even if the Canucks don't retain.
Cap space that they can make a trade at the TDL.

 

[Kryten]

If the rest of the league wasnt already paying for the Coyotes I bet Bettman wouldve not allowed the OEL trade

 

[Orr4Norris]

Sounds like they've already decided Pettersson gets the C.

(Based on Allvin's media today)

I found the fact that they were quick to mention Petey and Hughes for C right off the bat interesting.

If the rumours are true around the numbers they were offering Horvat, you wonder if this management group just didn’t believe in him as the captain. Nothing is going to shake up the room more than trading your captain.

 

[vancityluongo]

I found the fact that they were quick to mention Petey and Hughes for C right off the bat interesting.

If the rumours are true around the numbers they were offering Horvat, you wonder if this management group just didn’t believe in him as the captain. Nothing is going to shake up the room more than trading your captain.

Not like there are other natural candidates though - I honestly thought OEL would be in contention, given his previous experience as a captain and his remaining term which makes it a certainty that he'll be around. You can't give Petey a permanent letter until he signs long-term, and Hughes doesn't exactly seem like the type.

With Horvat gone, the longest serving Canuck is... Brock Boeser (since 2016-17). After that, I think it's Demko (one game in 2017-18), followed by Petterson (2018-19), then as of the end of 2018-19, Pearson (deadline) and Hughes (end of the season).

 

[Canucker]

Not like there are other natural candidates though - I honestly thought OEL would be in contention, given his previous experience as a captain and his remaining term which makes it a certainty that he'll be around. You can't give Petey a permanent letter until he signs long-term, and Hughes doesn't exactly seem like the type.

With Horvat gone, the longest serving Canuck is... Brock Boeser (since 2016-17). After that, I think it's Demko (one game in 2017-18), followed by Petterson (2018-19), then as of the end of 2018-19, Pearson (deadline) and Hughes (end of the season).

I'm not sure going with OEL would really work...his previous relationship with Tocchet doesnt seem positive, he's a possible buyout candidate, his on-ice play leaves a lot to be desired...lots working against him. Unless they think that added responsibility is something missing and would ignite something in him? Seems safer to look elsewhere.

 

[MarkMM]

I found the fact that they were quick to mention Petey and Hughes for C right off the bat interesting.

If the rumours are true around the numbers they were offering Horvat, you wonder if this management group just didn’t believe in him as the captain. Nothing is going to shake up the room more than trading your captain.

Wondering the same thing, by all accounts Horvat is a great guy and a character person, but that might not always equate with being the best leader. I think he gamely took up the leadership mantle when he was the best option available and credit for him on that, but through multiple coaches with different approaches this team has been consistently mentally and culturally weak. Not putting this all on Horvat, but the captain is the most responsible for setting the tone, and it's a fair consideration if that change just needed to be made to give someone else the opportunity to set the tone. Whether we have that other somebody who will do a better job is a fair question.