Management Thread | The Song Remains the Same Edition

[Nucker101]

it’s really stupid. if van wants to compete short term, they will re-sign bo and this is just stupid posturing considering they have no leverage. they caved with jt. these rumors are meaningless to me. the rest of them are mostly just that we want to move bad cap. like ok thanks for telling me the obvious?

honesty the only interesting rumor is demko. that only surfaces if his body is f***ed or because he wants out.

Allvin said he had a meeting with Bo's agent on Saturday, RD reports that it was only a phone call.

Sounds to me like it's all just a show for the fans to make it look like they're trying to sign Bo so they take less heat when they trade him. I'm sure they're offering him a contract, but it's definitely a lowball deal.

Still fully expect him to be traded.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

I'm not sure why, but I'm always surprised at the amount of people that:
are continually willing to put the same pan of ingredients, back in the oven; expecting that THIS time the yeast will activate, and the cake will rise.

Nope- didn't work the first time, try again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again.

Have you ever caked or breaded before? That's actually exactly how it's done.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Allvin said he had a meeting with Bo's agent on Saturday, RD reports that it was only a phone call.

Sounds to me like it's all just a show for the fans to make it look like they're trying to sign Bo so they take less heat when they trade him. I'm sure they're offering him a contract, but it's definitely a lowball deal.

Still fully expect him to be traded.

Allvin was pretty cagey when it came to the Miller signing as well..All the media were convinced JTM was getting traded....Allvin has a good poker face..He's also very good at compressing a lot of words without really saying anything.

I'm expecting the unexpected..I wouldn't be surprised if they re-signed Bo.

 

[me2]

Allvin was pretty cagey when it came to the Miller signing as well..All the media were convinced JTM was getting traded....Allvin has a good poker face..He's also very good at compressing a lot of words without really saying anything.

I'm expecting the unexpected..I wouldn't be surprised if they re-signed Bo.

Lol. They tried got 9 months to trade him and failed. Signing him was a panic move in September.

 

[bossram]

1.) because you can’t build a team with OEL on it- and no team with take him even at a reduced cap hit.

So you just wait until he expires.

 

[bossram]

What do you mean by the above. I am confused. Are the Canucks competitive now? Next year or the year after? If so bravo to the Management team. An OEL payout means we have 4 years (, one more than the perceived 2-3 years Jim and company hope to acheive sucess) to make a good playoff style team. Why should they extend the cap burden? You mean why extend a portion of the OEL'scap hit he has currently to the team without him playing. I guess? You are extending nothing as you can see below.

What you do is remove a player who costs X, retaining Y and adding players you feel or know can help the team during this time. The question should be is what we can get for those savings going to be better? No one knows for sure, years 3-4 with a 4.7 mill cap hit would hurt. But the last 4 years after saving 6 million per year looks good. In the meantime give you some cap flex and time to find the players who can fit in during the second half of the buyout term.

View attachment 643889
So they do not extend the cap burden according to this above and also a doublecheck HERE as well. So removing that from the eqauation, why reason would we have to keep an aging devoling player?

Umm... are you not actually looking at the thing you are posting?

There is a $2.1M cap charge from 27-28 to 30-31 that would not otherwise be there if you just wait for the contract to expire. Yes, buying him out extends the cap burden, clearly.

 

[theguardianII]

This is such a strawman.

Nobody wants ‘the exact same ingredients’. Some people just want get rid of the actual bad players instead of the team’s best players who are not the problem.

Bad players become "in the eye of the beholder" opinions.

If there are bad players who wants them then?

This group has been awful, the worst team in the league for 5/6 years now with mostly the same players, so most of the players should be considered bad. The ingredients aren't fresh anymore.

What do you mean by the above. I am confused. Are the Canucks competitive now? Next year or the year after? If so bravo to the Management team. An OEL payout means we have 4 years (, one more than the perceived 2-3 years Jim and company hope to acheive sucess) to make a good playoff style team. Why should they extend the cap burden? You mean why extend a portion of the OEL'scap hit he has currently to the team without him playing. I guess? You are extending nothing as you can see below.

What you do is remove a player who costs X, retaining Y and adding players you feel or know can help the team during this time. The question should be is what we can get for those savings going to be better? No one knows for sure, years 3-4 with a 4.7 mill cap hit would hurt. But the last 4 years after saving 6 million per year looks good. In the meantime give you some cap flex and time to find the players who can fit in during the second half of the buyout term.

View attachment 643889
So they do not extend the cap burden according to this above and also a doublecheck HERE as well. So removing that from the eqauation, why reason would we have to keep an aging devoling player?

They are all aging devolving players, that happens with time.

If you buyout Garland and Boeser thats 8.5 million right there in cap space so this we cant afford Bo AND Petey narrative is bunk

I would suspect that Anahein SJ Det and others would take either on the cheap where we dont ahve to retain cap allocation

No, it isn't. In the best years it is only a little over 7.5 million, for 4 years instead of retaining 4 million a year for 4 years and an additional 2 years of 1.88 million.

So paying millions for no magic beans at all.

But retention lasts 2 years for Boeser and 4 years for Garland, if retaining 2 mil for Boeser the pain is over in two years plus the retention may make a trade more valuable, get something back that might be better. Ditto with Garland at 2 million a season which ends in 4 years with additional players/picks or prospects coming back. Then ALL the pain is gone within 4 years at a cost of 8 million, a savings of 8.1 million and extra possibilities as future players or trade assets.

Pettersson's RFA status is good for a maximum of 3 more years if he refuses to commit longer than minimum necessary. Really don't want 4 million in extra costs when he is due his next deals.

Is there something wrong with having cap space? Maybe it is because since Gillis this team has never had any so some fans don't understand the value of cap space and how just having it can help build a team much faster.

The definition of insanity is using the same pieces over and over again and expecting something different.

 

[theguardianII]

1.) because you can’t build a team with OEL on it- and no team with take him even at a reduced cap hit.

I never really had posters that HATED a particular player and blamed him for everything.
There are a dozen teams that will take him on at 3.7 mil a season. They will be better teams with more defensive depth and not a losing culture.

He is not the player that runs the losing culture in the room, that is more long time players. I can't understand how he is so bad but Hughes gets a mulligan

 

[sting101]

Bad players become "in the eye of the beholder" opinions.

If there are bad players who wants them then?

This group has been awful, the worst team in the league for 5/6 years now with mostly the same players, so most of the players should be considered bad. The ingredients are fresh anymore.

They are all aging devolving players, that happens with time.

No, it isn't. In the best years it is only a little over 7.5 million, for 4 years instead of retaining 4 million a year for 4 years and an additional 2 years of 1.88 million.

So paying millions for no magic beans at all.

But retenition lasts 2 years for Boeser and 4 years for Garland, if retaining 2 mil for Boeser the pain is over in two years plus the retention may make a trade more valuable, get something back that might be better. Ditto with Garland at 2 million a season which ends in 4 years with additional players/picks or prospects coming back. Then ALL the pain is gone within 4 years at a cost of 8 million, a savings of 8.1 million and extra possibilities as future players or trade assets.

Pettersson's RFA status is good for a maximum of 3 more years if he refuses to commit longer than minimum necessary. Really don't want 4 million in extra costs when he is due his next deals.

Is there something wrong with having cap space? Maybe it is because since Gillis this team has never had any so some fans don't understand the value of cap space and how just having it can help build a team much faster.

The definition of insanity is using the same pieces over and over again and expecting something different.

check your math it's 8.544 million in cap savings

The bad money isn't even Garland but he just has such a good buyout number that if we cant trade him it's a no brainer to allocate it to a defenceman or Bo Petey whatever

 

[Gurn]

What the hell are you talking about? Nobody here makes roster decisions for the Canucks. We've all got our opinions on what the best path is, but we're on a message board for fans. There are no decisions made here. Some fans just want the team to win. Some fans have the perfect strategy for winning championships at the highest level and are annoyed that anyone disagrees with them but can't quite articulate it coherently or consistently. Some fans want the cup and nothing else matters, so they critique and discuss and praise and evaluate because it's fun to explore the why's and the how's of building a champion. The rest of us are here on HFboards.

Sorry I upset you, you have a great day.

 

[crowfish]

Brandon Carlo would be the worst type of guy to target. Slightly better than average 26 year old with injury history. I will be very annoyed if he is the main peice we get back for Horvat.

 

[gringo]

Tanks official

 

[theguardianII]

Horvat for Raty, Believeu and a 1rst.

With Lamer but I really expected it to be Miller

Not bad, two RFA players much younger

 

[Slapshot_11]

Wish we took that nyr deal for miller

 

[vancityluongo]

"rumoured"

Screenshot in case she deletes it:

 

[TraderJim]

As I said before. Same management group as with Benning. Targeting the same players, making the same type of moves.

Absolutely nothing has changed but the name plate on the door.

 

[mriswith]

"rumoured"

Screenshot in case she deletes it:

View attachment 644050

Where's option D, the Miller return and also the massively larger return Bo would have gotten if traded at last years deadline like those of us with some foresight were banging the drum on?

 

[nowhereman]

As I said before. Same management group as with Benning. Targeting the same players, making the same type of moves.

Absolutely nothing has changed but the name plate on the door.

How though? This trade is unlike anything the Benning regime ever did and the return was a prospect, 1st round pick and 1 year-UFA (to make the cap work). This doesn't feel at all like a Benning-type move. It would have been nice to move Miller and possibly even have shipped out Bo sooner (last season) but this about the move I would expect from a team moving on from a star player.

 

[TraderJim]

How though? This trade is unlike anything the Benning regime ever did and the return was a prospect, 1st round pick and 1 year-UFA (to make the cap work). This doesn't feel at all like a Benning-type move. It would have been nice to move Miller and possibly even have shipped out Bo sooner (last season) but this about the move I would expect from a team moving on from a star player.

Undersized wingers, underperforming players, retaining salary, taking back other teams cap dumps.

I see no difference in the type of players that this "new" management group is targeting. All the names are the same ones that were swirling around when Benning was here.

 

[krutovsdonut]

i see this trade as a couple of reasonable gambles.

raty is a swing for replacing a 2c with a 2c. it's a moonshot, but he's a classic big rangy centre with a hard shot who mostly needs to improve his skating. he should not be in the nhl right now but he's not disgracing himself. he's also a faller who has significantly unfallen and i like any player currently showing progression.

the protected 1st is also a pretty good moonshot. if i had to pick a team that might trade for horvat and then end up protecting this year and giving us an unprotected first next year, the isles would be on the short list. they are in tough to make the playoffs and if they lose touch they could drop.

so i see the logic and don't hate it.

can't say as i like beauvillier as a dump unless we have enough other trades lined up we're going to be short of actual or aspriring top 6 wingers.

 

[Breakers]

How though? This trade is unlike anything the Benning regime ever did and the return was a prospect, 1st round pick and 1 year-UFA (to make the cap work). This doesn't feel at all like a Benning-type move. It would have been nice to move Miller and possibly even have shipped out Bo sooner (last season) but this about the move I would expect from a team moving on from a star player.

Seems similar to the Kesler Trade
Nick Bonino was 25 years old Vancouver

 

[krutovsdonut]

Seems similar to the Kesler Trade
Nick Bonino was 25 years old Vancouver

i do not see it. this is closer to a rebuild. kesler trade was a true retool effort to replace a 2c and add a dman of the future immediately by plucking both off an nhl roster. really ambitious trade.

 

[theguardianII]

So next, who is on the table?

Demko? He is ready to come back within the next couple of weeks, there are a few teams with defencemen players or prospects or just young.

I still think Miller is possible, maybe Winnipeg, they could use his "attitude" a bit but have enough veteran leadership to keep a reign on it. As a possible replacement for Dubois at the draft. Maybe Washington too.

Boeser is still looking like a Columbus, Minnesota opportunities.

Garland with retention, many teams

Schenn, every playoff bound team

OEL with 50% retention? About 20 teams in on that for 3.7 mil for a veteran PP Qback.

 

[Breakers]

i do not see it. this is closer to a rebuild. kesler trade was a true retool effort to replace a 2c and add a dman of the future immediately by plucking both off an nhl roster. really ambitious trade.

numerous picks is closer to a rebuild
I mean we retain and take on beauvillier? Beauvillier isnt exactly cheap

 

[mriswith]

Miller has to go. Particularly considering the rumours that Demko is finished with this org, it's absolutely imperative that we jettison Miller.

Every other deal besides those two isn't urgent.