Management Thread | The Song Remains the Same Edition

[arttk]

I’m

Points will come from somewhere, they always do but having 150 points hasn't put this team into or even in the playoff conversation.

There is no quick fix period.

Nope simply not true. Points don’t just come from somewhere. 70+ point guys are hard to find. Like I listed before, there are 23 wingers that scored 70+ point last season. 80+ point players, there are maybe 10ish of them around the whole league. Could be slightly more this year but the point is there aren’t that many of them.

Also nope, you can be playoff ready with those players as long as you lower the goals against. Right now we are at like 3.9GA with a historic low PK. There is no reason why we can’t get better defensive personnel to make PK at least average and lower that GA by like 1-1.5. Even taking Bo, Boeser and Garland out of the lineup, there is enough offense to get into the playoffs if we can lower the GA.

 

[MS]

Predicting right now Horvat is re-signed, Schenn and Dermott traded for late round picks. Canucks will buyout OEL and Garland in the summer and trade Myers after his bonus is paid. They'll be plenty of disappointed fans on trade deadline day.

That sounds terrific.

 

[JT Milker]

That sounds terrific.

I wouldn’t call a Garland buyout terrific, nor would it be needed with those other moves, but ya that would be fine. This team is boned regardless, may as well try to put something together to entertain us for a few years before a true rebuild is needed.

 

[MS]

I wouldn’t call a Garland buyout terrific, nor would it be needed with those other moves, but ya that would be fine. This team is boned regardless, may as well try to put something together to entertain us for a few years before a true rebuild is needed.

I mean, for sure. You trade Garland (or Boeser) with retention before buying him out.

But if they clear nearly $20 million in cap space and sign Horvat, there is still a lot of room to make blueline moves.

 

[credulous]

this is more fantasy gm thread material but vancouver has an interesting cap situation if they resign horvat, buyout oel, move myers and buyout or move one of garland/boeser. i'm also assuming pearson and poolman are either ltir'd or otherwise dealt with

cap space is 22-25 million with 8-10 forwards signed (depending on where you see dries, aman and podkolzin ending up) and only hughes and stillman signed on d. they'd need to add basically a whole defense past #1 and a couple of third liners

they can't really afford to give out much long term money though because pettersson needs extending for 2024 and they have no contracts of significance expiring that summer. in 2025 boeser and kuzmenko's deals end but oel's buyout consumes most of the saved money from one of those deals so they only 'gain' ~7mil in space

of the four most significant holes in the roster (3rd c, 2nd, 3rd, 4th d) they can probably only really commit 15m on long term deals without putting themselves right back into a cap crisis

 

[Hit the post]

While no managemnt could possibly be as incompetent as Benning, this new managements is hardly a whole lot better, incredibly disappointing.

Rutherford came in talking big and has done nothing except sign more bad contracts that pile on the cap debacle. Now they have to trade away Bo, a leader and fan favorite to watch Miller sulk and float around for 8 years.

Even worse, is that now we have to listen to more of the "retool on the fly" nonsense everyone knows doesnt work after 10 years of futility. As an added bonus this management is further damaging the franchise reputation with embarrassing behavior in how they deal with players and employees.

Shit show

I'm actually starting to grow fond of the Dave Nonis years.

 

[theguardianII]

While no managemnt could possibly be as incompetent as Benning, this new managements is hardly a whole lot better, incredibly disappointing.

Rutherford came in talking big and has done nothing except sign more bad contracts that pile on the cap debacle. Now they have to trade away Bo, a leader and fan favorite to watch Miller sulk and float around for 8 years.

Even worse, is that now we have to listen to more of the "retool on the fly" nonsense everyone knows doesnt work after 10 years of futility. As an added bonus this management is further damaging the franchise reputation with embarrassing behavior in how they deal with players and employees.

Shit show

Could be everyone is getting set up for the

"We signed the fan's choice, but that made it so we can't do anything else"

No matter Miller at 30 for 7 years or Horvat at 28 for 7/8 years both are anchors now due to their ages and the lack of team chemistry or the losing culture.

Trading Horvat is more in the way of doing him a favour.

And Miller could still be traded.

While not likely at all Miller, Horvat, Schenn, Boeser and Garland being traded would not worry me because that sets up the re-tool, "build" without tearing it down to the studs.

All this "cap" crap is a smoke screen if retention is used. Sure not all teams could be trade partners but one's that are could be rewarded for good cap management instead of a cap management style like Benning and recently Rutherford scared me with, "I am not worried because that contract will be absorbed by the cap going up".

Surprise, It might even go down this year.

 

[theguardianII]

I’m

Nope simply not true. Points don’t just come from somewhere. 70+ point guys are hard to find. Like I listed before, there are 23 wingers that scored 70+ point last season. 80+ point probably line 10ish if then around.

Also nope, you can be playoff ready with those players as long as you lower the goals against. Right now we are at like 3.9GA with a historic low PK. There is no reason why we can’t get better defensive personnel to make PK at least average and lower that GA by like 1-1.5. Even taking Bo, Boeser and Garland out of the lineup, there is enough offense to get into the playoffs if we can lower the GA.

Entire post makes no sense.

Score more, allow fewer means winning? Ya, I get that kinda hard not to.

So what have these 150 point guys achieved with this team?

They look good losing? They need to be paid more and more due to the points?

Where are better defensive personnel? Do they even want to come to "Club Chaos"?

Forwards are responsible for defence too you know? Maybe these 150 point guys just aren't good enough to do both.

 

[arttk]

1. Who cares if the team is worse short-term: The club is self-admitting they won't be competitive in the short-term. So build for the future.

2. What is this "certainty" you speak of? Certainty of retaining the majority of a basement team? Is that a good thing?

3. How are they moving Brock and Garland? Who's taking them? Who is this "defensive oriented" 3C they'll acquire?

4. If scoring wingers are so expensive and so rare, how come Rutherford himself said he's had so much trouble trying to trade them away?

This is not about short term, it’s about long term as well.

You know you can keep some players and still build for the future right? It’s like you don’t need to do a full scorch earth rebuild to get young assets.

The certainty is knowing that you have a 1st line that is really good, knowing that you have a PPG that can drive the 2nd line and the PP and a offensive D that can drive offense from the back. Certainty is knowing how much offense you will get as a baseline so you can focus on things that are easier to control such as improving the defense by getting forwards that can do that.

Regarding how are they trading those players, how the f*** do I know, do I look like the GM to you? It’s not like you know for sure they can’t be traded either. It’s not like you are on the GM trade email list or WhatsApp group. As far as I can tell, Servalli said there are actual interest for those players and I’ve said I will reserve my opinion until they show they can/cannot get it done by this off-season. I feel like all of us are so damn off with valuation that there is no point to just make up hypothetical returns and convince ourself that just the return and get pissy when it doesn’t happen.

Trade market and FA market dynamics are very different. FA market is limited by who is actually available. Just do a quick search and you’ll see the market has like maybe 10 guys available at that level and half of them are like 32+. Also FA market doesn’t require any additional assets so GMs prefer that because it’s a “cheaper” solution and they are essentially in control. They offer a price they think it’s fair and the FA decides to sign or not.
Trade market is different because if GMs are going to spend additional assets, they are going to be picky about style, fit and also contract. Also there are other dynamics such as wanting to take advantage of another GM on the other side, the desire to a trade or not lose one. So I don’t think Boeser is hard to trade, it’s just hard to get the value they want for him. If he sets the price at like a 4th rounder I am sure some GM will bite but they probably want more than that and once again if you listen to Servalli, there is interest, it’s just a matter of gamesmanship between the GMs.

 

[arttk]

Entire post makes no sense.

Score more, allow fewer means winning? Ya, I get that kinda hard not to.

So what have these 150 point guys achieved with this team?

They look good losing? They need to be paid more and more due to the points?

Where are better defensive personnel? Do they even want to come to "Club Chaos"?

Forwards are responsible for defence too you know? Maybe these 150 point guys just aren't good enough to do both.

What is so hard to understand? They did their job and scored points and drove their line.

The team is losing because the whole team sucks defensively. You don’t need to replace every single god damn player to improve the defense or the PK. You have 4 forward lines, you don’t need every single one of them to be selke winners to be good at defense.

Miller sucks at defense? Well get him 2 wingers that can defend better and are good on the PK. 3rd line sucks at defense? Now Bo is gone get a defense first center who is good on the PK. You add more guys who can defend to the team and have those guys do more of the heavy lifting.
Defensive first guys are easier to get in the FA market and trade because GMs tend to focus on points first guys. We had no problem getting Mik did we?

Myers is going to be gone after his signing bonus is paid, replace him. OEL sucks on D, buy that f***er out and get somebody else.

There other ways to solve problem other than hit the giant reset button you know.

The goal should always be, create an environment where guys push each other to be better. We’ve seen Miller be effective in Tampa. Benning f***ed up by creating this f***ed up team environment. But I don’t believe that it’s so f***ed you have to trade everyone. If you put two guys who bust their ass and work hard defensively beside JT, it’s super likely that he is going to do the same. And I don’t understand why you want to lump in kuz as if he is part of the problem. Petey’s line is like the only line that actually hauls ass and play hard. If anything you want more Kuz on the team.

 

[iceburg]

I think there’s a real possibility that they get the young roster player, a pick and a prospect for Horvat. If that roster player is a former first rounder, preferably still on an elc, and they add a top 5 pick at the draft, that will be a great beginning in fixing the roster.

One of those players needs to be a centre with at least Horvat upside and be ready for top 6 role in a couple of years when Miller moves permanently to wing for the remainder of his contract. The other, again preferably, has top 4 RHD potential.

They wouldn’t be finished rebalancing the roster and fixing the cap problem but this one move would be a massive step in the right direction.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

While no managemnt could possibly be as incompetent as Benning, this new managements is hardly a whole lot better, incredibly disappointing.

Rutherford came in talking big and has done nothing except sign more bad contracts that pile on the cap debacle. Now they have to trade away Bo, a leader and fan favorite to watch Miller sulk and float around for 8 years.

Even worse, is that now we have to listen to more of the "retool on the fly" nonsense everyone knows doesnt work after 10 years of futility. As an added bonus this management is further damaging the franchise reputation with embarrassing behavior in how they deal with players and employees.

Shit show

I think you may be a perfect candidate to update your username if I am reading it and your join date together the way I think I am.

 

[hookshott]

Predicting right now Horvat is re-signed, Schenn and Dermott traded for late round picks. Canucks will buyout OEL and Garland in the summer and trade Myers after his bonus is paid. They'll be plenty of disappointed fans on trade deadline day.

Not a chance Garland will be bought out...nor should they. We also do not need the long term pain of buying out OEL.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

We’ve seen Miller be effective in Tampa.

Wasn’t Miller part of this sequence of events?

1-Miller on Tampa and Tampa loses to Jackets in hilarious fashion.

2-Miller traded to Vancouver.

3-Tampa wins next two Stanley Cups and loses another in seven games/Canucks with Miller as grrrrrrrrrr super snarly alpha DAWG does everything in hilarious fashion as their identity and lose most of the time.

 

[arttk]

Wasn’t Miller part of this sequence of events?

1-Miller on Tampa and Tampa loses to Jackets in hilarious fashion.

2-Miller traded to Vancouver.

3-Tampa wins next two Stanley Cups and loses another in seven games/Canucks with Miller as grrrrrrrrrr super snarly alpha DAWG does everything in hilarious fashion as their identity and lose most of the time.

Miller was also on the tampa team that went to the eastern conference final the year prior and put up .5ppg in the playoffs. He also went to the playoffs with us and scored above ppg.

I’ve already laid out that Tampa had to move out 3.5M+ worth of cap to start the season. They had to trade someone and Jimbo decided to show up with a 1st and a 3rd

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

Miller was also on the tampa team that went to the eastern conference final the year prior and put up .5ppg in the playoffs. He also went to the playoffs with us and scored above ppg.

I’ve already laid out that Tampa had to move out 3.5M+ worth of cap to start the season. They had to trade someone and Jimbo decided to show up with a 1st and a 3rd

Many things can be true at once but the(alleged) addition by subtraction effect there is hilarious.

 

[platotld]

gringo said:
OEL needs to be bought out this summer if we want to build a “team” that can win in the next three years. I’ll take the chances that the cap will rise and help cover the damn cost. Minnesota hit the bullet and it was worth it.


No, just no.

Yes just yes

 

[arttk]

Many things can be true at once but the(alleged) addition by subtraction effect there is hilarious.

Mm it’s called removing bad pieces and replacing them with pieces that don’t suck

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Mm it’s called removing bad pieces and replacing them with pieces that don’t suck

Miller being the bad piece in this Tampa situation?

 

[mathonwy]

The only time the Canucks have tanked is a small period in 2017 when they dealt Hansen and Burrows.

That is it.

Being bad unintentionally because of bad process is not the same as intentionally tanking. That isn’t even some dumb semantics debate - it is entirely different.

They tanked when they traded Bonez for Sutter.

 

[arttk]

Miller being the bad piece in this Tampa situation?

Man you guys really like to have a conclusion and try to find info to support your conclusion and throw away everything that doesn’t support it.

The video coach was on 32 pod and he talked about how they were too cocky at the start of the series and wasn’t mentally dialed in enough. Then when they lost they were shell shocked and when they got back into the right mind it was like 3-0 already and already too late. Miller was not even part of the leadership group at Tampa, it’s weird to put blame on a player and not the actual leaders.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Man you guys really like to have a conclusion and try to find info to support your conclusion and throw away everything that doesn’t support it.

The video coach was on 32 pod and he talked about how they were too cocky at the start of the series and wasn’t mentally dialed in enough. Then when they lost they were shell shocked and when they got back into the right mind it was like 3-0 already and already too late. Miller was not even part of the leadership group at Tampa, it’s weird to put blame on a player and not the actual leaders.

Oh so what did you mean by your post then..?

Mm it’s called removing bad pieces and replacing them with pieces that don’t suck

 

[arttk]

Oh so what did you mean by your post then..?

Mm it’s called removing bad pieces and replacing them with pieces that don’t suck

Talking about our team, removing OEL, Myers. I don’t think you would disagree with that right

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Talking about our team, removing OEL, Myers. I don’t think you would disagree with that right

But wasnt this about Miller and Tampa??

 

[arttk]

But wasnt this about Miller and Tampa??
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