Management Thread | The Song Remains the Same Edition

[bossram]

That makes zero sense from a long term sustainability perspective. There is zero way for this team to jump for wherever we are to Tampa level one season so why even bother.

like high level, next year, 23-24, we should try to get to as close to playoff level while spending as little assets as possible. This way you can see more clearly which area needs to be improved upon and you just spend asset to improve on that very specific spot. You should be able to do it by focusing on cheap players that can help you reduce the GA and let the big guns, Petey, Kuz, Miller and Hughes drive the offense for you.

Then 24-25, I assume the draft piece from this year will come in so you’ll have ELC support. Also you would hope the piece from Bo trade is starting to contribute. I think you can still be conservative about spending assets to improve the team but the team should be a playoff team already at this stage.

Then year 25-26 is where you start to put bigger bets. Because now you should have a steadier stream of ELC players coming in and the original top10 pick should be playing at a good level. You have the right balance of vet, elc and trade deadline help.

if they bet big this off-season then they won’t have that pipe of ELC nor will they have the assets to use when the team actually gets better.

If they want this pipeline of ELCs coming in to backfill Petey/Quinn, they should've been much more aggressive at selling assets now like Miller, Kuzmenko, Horvat, etc. They should've been doing that last summer. They should've left cap space available to take on short-term cap dumps for payment. Build up the stockpile now, with the flexibility to trade that stash of picks/prospects for NHLers later or allow them to backfill your team in 2-4 years. Instead, they went with a misguided attempt to make a push for the playoffs.

From Rutherford's own words, he wants prime age 24-27 year old players back. Why? If the target for winning is in 2-3 years, why are you focussing on win-now players who will need big extensions when they're exiting their primes? If the target is 2-3 years, why are you giving Kuz just a 2 year contract? So he can leave or you pay him a bag in 2 years? It's contradictory and dumb.

OEL needs to be bought out this summer if we want to build a “team” that can win in the next three years. I’ll take the chances that the cap will rise and help cover the damn cost. Minnesota hit the bullet and it was worth it.

No, just no.

 

[gringo]

If they want this pipeline of ELCs coming in to backfill Petey/Quinn, they should've been much more aggressive at selling assets now like Miller, Kuzmenko, Horvat, etc. They should've been doing that last summer. They should've left cap space available to take on short-term cap dumps for payment. Build up the stockpile now, with the flexibility to trade that stash of picks/prospects for NHLers later or allow them to backfill your team in 2-4 years. Instead, they went with a misguided attempt to make a push for the playoffs.

From Rutherford's own words, he wants prime age 24-27 year old players back. Why? If the target for winning is in 2-3 years, why are you focussing on win-now players who will need big extensions when they're exiting their primes? If the target is 2-3 years, why are you giving Kuz just a 2 year contract? So he can leave or you pay him a bag in 2 years? It's contradictory and dumb.


No, just no.

Absolutely we need to buy out OEL. He’s awful and no one will take him even at a reduced cap hit. This isn’t the kind of guy you want on a rebuilding team.

 

[StickShift]

OEL certainly needs to be bought out. Not for cap reasons—there will definitely be cap pain.

He needs to be gone for cultural reasons. He represents as a player everything that is wrong with this past generation of the team. He’s a parasite to this team and they need to get rid of him ASAP—not when it is most convenient.

 

[arttk]

If they want this pipeline of ELCs coming in to backfill Petey/Quinn, they should've been much more aggressive at selling assets now like Miller, Kuzmenko, Horvat, etc. They should've been doing that last summer. They should've left cap space available to take on short-term cap dumps for payment. Build up the stockpile now, with the flexibility to trade that stash of picks/prospects for NHLers later or allow them to backfill your team in 2-4 years. Instead, they went with a misguided attempt to make a push for the playoffs.

From Rutherford's own words, he wants prime age 24-27 year old players back. Why? If the target for winning is in 2-3 years, why are you focussing on win-now players who will need big extensions when they're exiting their primes? If the target is 2-3 years, why are you giving Kuz just a 2 year contract? So he can leave or you pay him a bag in 2 years? It's contradictory and dumb.


No, just no.

If you trade Miller and Kuz, you are taking out 150ish points out and it’s highly unlikely that whatever we get back for them will be able to replace that. The odds of getting a 70-80 point impact player from a low 1st round pick is really damn low. You won’t be able to count of ELC help from a low 1st rounder.

If you trade them you are essentially doing a rebuild not a retool. By keeping Kuz and Miller, you have more certainty around your offense. You can downgrade on Bo but make up for it by getting a guy that can defend better. We can also allocate money we spend on Brock and Garland to a better defensive 3C and more defensive wingers. By focusing addition on defense first guys, we’ll need the production from Miller and Kuz to be competitive. Never mind the fact defense first forwards are plentiful in FA market and scoring wingers are expensive as f*** and rare.

 

[arttk]

Tampa also tanked (not sure if on purpose) to get Drouin at 3rd overall who they parlayed into Sergachev. So basically half their top 4 defence including their #1 all situations Norris and Smythe winner, and #1 centre. They also got a franchise player in the 2nd round in Kucherov and another fantastic top 6 player in the 3rd round in Point, which is a combination of excellent drafting and luck that the players were still available at those spots (not easily replicable for other rebuilding teams).

Doesn’t seem like what happened that season was on purpose. Shorten season and looks like goaltending tanked their season.

They got Stamkos and Hedman in their 3 tank seasons. Then they drafted Kucherov and Palat the season they went to the eastern conf final. Like the tank only got them 2 pieces. The rest they got when they were trying to compete and then there is Drouin who they got when they accidentally failed in a shorten season.

We like to say Tampa is the best drafting team but they missed on like Koekkoek, Connolly who are top10 picks and most of their 1st rounder are like duds. They are like a really weird team.

 

[me2]

It’s like the concept of having a transitional year is an alien concept to you guys. .

A transition year usually involves transition. Perhaps year 2 will see a transition year because year one was rerun.

You could have kept Benning and Green for another year and you'd be in the same spot we are now. If you had then it would have been just another Benning year. Who would have been happy with Benning's performance if this last 13 months had came from Benning? (Besides PoM). Yet it gets defended even though Rutherford admits it was a failure and still can't explain his plan for the next few years.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Team is going to be trash anyways buyout oel after next year when its an even better buyout penalty..

 

[PuckMunchkin]

A transition year usually involves transition. Perhaps year 2 will see a transition year because year one was rerun.

You could have kept Benning and Green for another year and you'd be in the same spot we are now. If you had then it would have been just another Benning year. Who would have been happy with Benning's performance if this last 13 months had came from Benning? (Besides PoM). Yet it gets defended even though Rutherford admits it was a failure and still can't explain his plan for the next few years.

There would have been fireworks from some of the defenders...

 

[Diogenes92]

Like people want to use NJ as an example, guess what, outside of Severson their whole blue line was acquired via FA and trade.

How close is NJ to winning a cup?

Where did NJ aquire their top players from?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

How close is NJ to winning a cup?

Where did NJ aquire their top players from?

I believe it was through buyouts.

 

[mriswith]

Anyone referencing NJ's blueline as an example of something not built through the draft is in for a shock in about 7 months.

 

[Kryten]

Id rather trade and retain 3m a year on OEL instead of buying him out

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

OEL needs to be bought out this summer if we want to build a “team” that can win in the next three years. I’ll take the chances that the cap will rise and help cover the damn cost. Minnesota hit the bullet and it was worth it.

This year is rough to buy-out OEL 2-3 years out is much better and since the team won't be contending and the Ufa pool is thin no reason to rush that buyout.

 

[F A N]

A transition year usually involves transition. Perhaps year 2 will see a transition year because year one was rerun.

You could have kept Benning and Green for another year and you'd be in the same spot we are now. If you had then it would have been just another Benning year. Who would have been happy with Benning's performance if this last 13 months had came from Benning? (Besides PoM). Yet it gets defended even though Rutherford admits it was a failure and still can't explain his plan for the next few years.

The market surely would have accepted not making the playoffs this year if management signaled the intention to take a step back and the moves reflected that. Instead, it seems like the plan is the same with perhaps the execution being a bit different. Keeping the same core, going after the top European UFA, and signing another scoring winger very much seem like Benning moves. And even in trades we're looking for players who are under 25. Now don't get me wrong, I wasn't against any of these moves individually but I was expecting a corresponding move given the wingers we have on the team.

 

[StickShift]

This year is rough to buy-out OEL 2-3 years out is much better and since the team won't be contending and the Ufa pool is thin no reason to rush that buyout.

Respectfully disagree. That’s like saying “we’ll let this cancer stay in your body until there is a better treatment”

They have to act now otherwise the cultural rot will worsen. What’s the motivation for other players when they see a veteran making $8mm a year and playing like he deserves less than half that?

 

[Bubbles]

Anyone referencing NJ's blueline as an example of something not built through the draft is in for a shock in about 7 months.

Nemec, Hughes and Mukhamadullin are just magic beans by some people. They're not as good as players who failed on their ELCs.

​

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Respectfully disagree. That’s like saying “we’ll let this cancer stay in your body until there is a better treatment”

They have to act now otherwise the cultural rot will worsen. What’s the motivation for other players when they see a veteran making $8mm a year and playing like he deserves less than half that?

He is not a bad guy. He is just playing on 1 leg.

 

[Hit the post]

I believe it was through buyouts.

 

[bossram]

Absolutely we need to buy out OEL. He’s awful and no one will take him even at a reduced cap hit. This isn’t the kind of guy you want on a rebuilding team.

What's that? The Canucks are rebuilding now? Hallelujah! Better call Jim Rutherford and let him know!

OEL certainly needs to be bought out. Not for cap reasons—there will definitely be cap pain.

He needs to be gone for cultural reasons. He represents as a player everything that is wrong with this past generation of the team. He’s a parasite to this team and they need to get rid of him ASAP—not when it is most convenient.

So let's get this straight: The Canucks self-admittedly say they are not close to contending yet. So you want them to reduce the cap burden of OEL now, and instead extend the cap burden out far enough to such a time when they might be contenders.

Interesting plan. Flawless. No notes.

Look, if everyone were so concerned about the "culture", you should've been advocating for ditching JT Miller long ago. What's done is done. Benning basically ruined the Canucks with OEL and all they can do it eat the poison.

 

[bossram]

If you trade Miller and Kuz, you are taking out 150ish points out and it’s highly unlikely that whatever we get back for them will be able to replace that. The odds of getting a 70-80 point impact player from a low 1st round pick is really damn low. You won’t be able to count of ELC help from a low 1st rounder.

If you trade them you are essentially doing a rebuild not a retool. By keeping Kuz and Miller, you have more certainty around your offense. You can downgrade on Bo but make up for it by getting a guy that can defend better. We can also allocate money we spend on Brock and Garland to a better defensive 3C and more defensive wingers. By focusing addition on defense first guys, we’ll need the production from Miller and Kuz to be competitive. Never mind the fact defense first forwards are plentiful in FA market and scoring wingers are expensive as f*** and rare.

1. Who cares if the team is worse short-term: The club is self-admitting they won't be competitive in the short-term. So build for the future.

2. What is this "certainty" you speak of? Certainty of retaining the majority of a basement team? Is that a good thing?

3. How are they moving Brock and Garland? Who's taking them? Who is this "defensive oriented" 3C they'll acquire?

4. If scoring wingers are so expensive and so rare, how come Rutherford himself said he's had so much trouble trying to trade them away?

 

[theguardianII]

1. Who cares if the team is worse short-term: The club is self-admitting they won't be competitive in the short-term. So build for the future.

2. What is this "certainty" you speak of? Certainty of retaining the majority of a basement team? Is that a good thing?

3. How are they moving Brock and Garland? Who's taking them? Who is this "defensive oriented" 3C they'll acquire?

4. If scoring wingers are so expensive and so rare, how come Rutherford himself said he's had so much trouble trying to trade them away?

The team is worse in the short term?
Well for the Canucks fan's short term could be 3 more years. In a heart beat you bet bring it on.

Certainty? Might mean, to some fans, not having to remember how to spell some names. Or betting lines are easier, just bet against them and win 60% of the time.

Brock and Garland do have some value but with over priced contracts a reduction in the cap hit might be required.

The word rebuild has many different interpretations Rutherford maybe thinking like a total tear down of ALL the players at once. The players ARE worth more as parts than as they are on this team. But other GMs would question their value because the team is the shats. Allvin is finding out that eastern GMs don't watch the teams on the wrong coast very often so their offers get based on the team's performance and player's lack of effectiveness, maybe. They over value the team's players.

OEL certainly needs to be bought out. Not for cap reasons—there will definitely be cap pain.

He needs to be gone for cultural reasons. He represents as a player everything that is wrong with this past generation of the team. He’s a parasite to this team and they need to get rid of him ASAP—not when it is most convenient.

A little harsh. He did break his leg in the WC. He is also being asked to play a role he didn't have to play before.

If you trade Miller and Kuz, you are taking out 150ish points out and it’s highly unlikely that whatever we get back for them will be able to replace that. The odds of getting a 70-80 point impact player from a low 1st round pick is really damn low. You won’t be able to count of ELC help from a low 1st rounder.

If you trade them you are essentially doing a rebuild not a retool. By keeping Kuz and Miller, you have more certainty around your offense. You can downgrade on Bo but make up for it by getting a guy that can defend better. We can also allocate money we spend on Brock and Garland to a better defensive 3C and more defensive wingers. By focusing addition on defense first guys, we’ll need the production from Miller and Kuz to be competitive. Never mind the fact defense first forwards are plentiful in FA market and scoring wingers are expensive as f*** and rare.

Points will come from somewhere, they always do but having 150 points hasn't put this team into or even in the playoff conversation.

There is no quick fix period.

Team is going to be trash anyways buyout oel after next year when its an even better buyout penalty..

Id rather trade and retain 3m a year on OEL instead of buying him out

Any buy out carries with it the "Luongo" effect only worse. The team would be hit with over 4 million in cap hits right at the time it needs money for Pettersson's next contract(s) and then linger for another 4 years after.

If posters think the Luongo contract was bad the buyout of OEL will be worse.

Easily retaining for 3 years is the preference, less money and much shorter term with a possible return of asset(s).



So many fans post like it is next year or right now they need to make deals for the immediate future, the team needs to look at, to use as an example, Pettersson's contract for a time line.

That would take them out to his 3rd year from now to become a playoff team and depending upon how much cap space they will have, how good they are at trades and scouting for the draft. By that time OEL will likely be gone but like Myers this team has no replacements of pedigree here.

While Kuzmenko would have gotten a very good return and I was one that thought he should have been on the table, a tow year deal is not frightening, if anything it could mean getting an even better return for the 2025 draft if dealt at the TDL. So it is only putting off what I thought would be good now for another season, maybe two which is within MY timeline of when all the new pieces should be in place.

Just about every team's best players have come through the draft, rarely through a trade. A proven method over and over again.

 

[Kryten]

Yea buying out OEL should be a last resort due to the caphit for a long time. Myers cannot be bought out due to terrible contract structure and must be traded. Stillman can be bought out or buried easily. Poolman can be bought out or kept on LTIR. Lazar can be bought out or buried. Boeser can be traded. Miller will likely be stuck here unless he demands out and have 1-2m retained. Demko who knows. Hughes and Pettersson are so rarely attained that it would be a travesty to see them go unless it was well worth it. Horvat needs to go and has to return something useful

 

[Cancuks]

Predicting right now Horvat is re-signed, Schenn and Dermott traded for late round picks. Canucks will buyout OEL and Garland in the summer and trade Myers after his bonus is paid. They'll be plenty of disappointed fans on trade deadline day.

 

[rypper]

Predicting right now Horvat is re-signed, Schenn and Dermott traded for late round picks. Canucks will buyout OEL and Garland in the summer and trade Myers after his bonus is paid. They'll be plenty of disappointed fans on trade deadline day.

There would be worse outcomes.

 

[Cupless44]

While no managemnt could possibly be as incompetent as Benning, this new managements is hardly a whole lot better, incredibly disappointing.

Rutherford came in talking big and has done nothing except sign more bad contracts that pile on the cap debacle. Now they have to trade away Bo, a leader and fan favorite to watch Miller sulk and float around for 8 years.

Even worse, is that now we have to listen to more of the "retool on the fly" nonsense everyone knows doesnt work after 10 years of futility. As an added bonus this management is further damaging the franchise reputation with embarrassing behavior in how they deal with players and employees.

Shit show