Management Thread | Regular Season Edition

[Paulinbc]

Tyler Madden is on waivers for all you freaks that threw a hissy fit when he was traded away.

Go get him.

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

Man I love this management team

Edit:

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Man I love this management team

Fixed it for you

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

Fixed it for you

Thanks b.

 

[credulous]

There is literally no GM in history who doesn’t have a laundry list of fungible short-term low-cost acquisitions that didn’t work out.

not my point. i don't expect every move to work out

my point is people use allvin's infallibility as proof of his infallibility and shut down all debate or criticism with an appeal to faith in his abilities despite evidence he's not actually infallible

lately it's pointless to be even mildly critical of management because seemingly very few posters will engage in good faith

 

[MS]

not my point. i don't expect every move to work out

my point is people use allvin's infallibility as proof of his infallibility and shut down all debate or criticism with an appeal to faith in his abilities despite evidence he's not actually infallible

lately it's pointless to be even mildly critical of management because seemingly very few posters will engage in good faith

This has very obviously been one of the best-run organizations in the NHL for the past couple years and a couple bled 3rd round picks or cheap depth UFA signings that didn’t work doesn’t change that.

 

[credulous]

This has very obviously been one of the best-run organizations in the NHL for the past couple years and a couple bled 3rd round picks or cheap depth UFA signings that didn’t work doesn’t change that.

thanks for illustrating for me

when even the mildest criticism is shut down with "this has very obviously been one of the best-run organizations in the NHL" it's pointless to ever be critical if you expect any kind of discussion

and i'm just pointing out why there's no substantive discussion of management, not trying to convince you or anyone else they are actually bad

 

[Hit the post]

not my point. i don't expect every move to work out

my point is people use allvin's infallibility as proof of his infallibility and shut down all debate or criticism with an appeal to faith in his abilities despite evidence he's not actually infallible

lately it's pointless to be even mildly critical of management because seemingly very few posters will engage in good faith

I think Alvin's work tend to get inflated in value simply as a result of how much a turd the DimJim regime was. Low expectations IMHO. Much like how Thomas Gradin's scouting looks compared against the like of Ron Superscout Delorme.

 

[ephmrl]

I think Alvin's work tend to get inflated in value simply as a result of how much a turd the DimJim regime was. Low expectations IMHO. Much like how Thomas Gradin's scouting looks compared against the like of Ron Superscout Delorme.

Allvin was voted 2nd place for GM of the year. It's not just the posters here or the fanbase who rate the management highly, it's a widely held opinion around the league.

 

[valkynax]

thanks for illustrating for me

when even the mildest criticism is shut down with "this has very obviously been one of the best-run organizations in the NHL" it's pointless to ever be critical if you expect any kind of discussion

and i'm just pointing out why there's no substantive discussion of management, not trying to convince you or anyone else they are actually bad

I'd say the team has been ran quite well, it's not perfect but it has been a massive upgrade since Commando Dimbo days. I myself was VERY critical of Mr. Clean and Moleman in the first year or so. But they delivered lots of good moves, and for a fanbase who watched Dimbo in pure horror for almost a decade, it's such a refreshing sight.

One thing I also noted is that our new management seems to resolve what they perceived as mistakes very very aggressively. Their...ferocity and decisiveness in dealing with errors feels quite astounding.

And of course, it's better that mistakes are avoided - Forbort looks like a mistake so far, and I still really dislike how they traded Pod away...but the biggest mystery to me was how they somehow managed to make firing of a coach into a spectacle. I mean, if someone says there's more going on behind the scene between Bruce and our team, ok maybe? What is clear is, Bruce Boudreau's firing was handled poorly and generated quite a bit of negative PR as well as unwanted attention for the team.

 

[Hit the post]

Allvin was voted 2nd place for GM of the year. It's not just the posters here or the fanbase who rate the management highly, it's a widely held opinion around the league.

I think ones work can be a bit overrated (for the reasons I stated - following DimJim "work") *AND* still be good (re: Alvin's tenure to date). But that's just my opinion.

 

[logan5]

So far Allvin has done good job, but very few GM's come into a situation where they have 2 100 point centers, and a Norris trophy defenceman that scores 90 points. I'm not saying Benning did a good job, because he didn't. Most GM's don't, but the trajectory of the organization is not that far off of a exemplary organization like the Avalanche. It's a fact of life in the cap era where you go through a long rebuilding process. I can list 16 teams that have gone through or are going through a rebuilding process as arduous as the Canucks have gone through.

 

[arttk]

not my point. i don't expect every move to work out

my point is people use allvin's infallibility as proof of his infallibility and shut down all debate or criticism with an appeal to faith in his abilities despite evidence he's not actually infallible

lately it's pointless to be even mildly critical of management because seemingly very few posters will engage in good faith

Didn’t you argue that all the signings the offseason prior won’t move the needle and then said nothing about that when they won the division and had a 109 point season? If you were right then yeah, go ahead an be critical.

I think there are instances where it makes sense to be critical, like the Ian Clarke thing, but based on how much they have hit it out of the park last season, they have earned some benefit of the doubt.

I think most people were worried that they won’t be able to walk that thin line where they can get the team to be competitive and have some sense of a future. So far they walked that line better than any management team in the league. We are competitive and we have young kids banging on the door and drafting seems fine so far. Yeah it COULD be better if they are absolutely flawless but that’s not realistic so what’s the point?

 

[Bubbles]

thanks for illustrating for me

when even the mildest criticism is shut down with "this has very obviously been one of the best-run organizations in the NHL" it's pointless to ever be critical if you expect any kind of discussion

and i'm just pointing out why there's no substantive discussion of management, not trying to convince you or anyone else they are actually bad

Thank you for this post! I'm with you 100%. For some reason any criticism of the current management is instantly branded as some "Jim Benning" lover or some kind of crap. You'd think after how many years of crappy management, that a more critical eye is deserved.

It's like most of HFCanucks jumped from a super bad relationship and everything is super rosy with the new beau, until it's not.

The Mikheyev situation is one that most fans here have quietly buried. That was a total failure but people keep saying "well, at least we got out from that contract".

 

[Ernie]

You're never going to bat 100% on trades / UFA signings. A GM who doesn't make a bad trade (in retrospect) here and there isn't taking enough risks. The Canucks have had more wins than losses in filling out their depth and that's what really matters.

 

[Josepho]

The Mikheyev contract led to one productive year, one year at poor value (likely largely due to an injury), and then downgrading a 2027 2nd to a 4th (and not doubling down on the mistake).

In the grand scheme of things that's hardly devastating for your franchise.

IMO the things from the past year that can warrant criticism are the Lindholm trade and (TBD) the DeBrusk contract and the situation on defence. I have a really tough time seeing any of Heinen/Sherwood/Sprong turning out poorly and on-paper they're all very good moves.

 

[mossey3535]

Ian Clark:
-starting to pick up a little bit of noise
-Clark may move on with the Canucks blessing
-Canucks would not stand in the way
-mentions New Jersey as a possible destination
-people who followed the situation much closer felt that it was likely that this marriage wouldn't continue
-looks like the relationship with the Canucks has turned in a bad direction but teams would still value his knowledge

Let him go, he's been showing signs of not adapting since Columbus. And with Demko getting injured so much and him again not appearing to change anything I think it's time.

Probably could have been handled better, but I guess it was preferable to just punting him entirely? Basically not making him director of goaltending illustrated that they weren't all that confident in him going forward. So they kept him, he still at this moment is helping out Torenius, but when he's ready he'll move on. Which is what they wanted all along, it appears.

If he really is feeling the effect on his body, how is he going to be super influential on a day-to-day basis? Even if he goes to New Jersey, he's not going to be the guy working with Marky every day. Thing is, he's always been that kind of coach so it's not like he was doing mostly front office work, he made his bread and butter with the individual goalies. It's an interesting situation.

 

[VancouverJagger]

After Benning's reign of error Allvin has been given a very long leash by fans but that honeymoon should be coming to an end and some of these bizarre signings and trades should be examined a little.
Good
He scoops the entire NHL for a coveted Russian who is quite successful as EP's wing man.
Bad
Only to trade him, a first round pick, a very, very promising AAA RHD prospect and B prospect large dman for essentially a rental.
Benning did this to a lesser effect, both teams played extra games but both ended up with nothing for the future, if anything these could be looked as desperation moves only Benning's cost less.

Good
Allvin again scooped the NHL for a very highly ranked FA in Mikheyev and that guy started to play pretty well even with a severe knee injury with EP and Kuz until he had to get surgery. Fans forget that with this combination EP had his best year, Kuz scored almost 40 goals and Mikheyev also had his best year even with a damaged knee. They were also one of the best defensive lines, so good EP was touted as a possible Selke candidate.
So what happened? Why? This was a stout line that worked well together?
Bad
Mikheyev get dealt with retention, 2nd rnd pick and an NHL player, for a 4th rnd pick.

So these first two, which was the mistake, signing or the price of trading?

IMO really bad

Then there is the OEL buyout. A ridiculously long term damaging NHL record payout that will last another 6 years. Why? One excuse was to pay some other player that aren't here anymore. It was so well known that Tocchet and OEL had issues that is was a topic at his hiring. But again, even over paid and asked to change his game OEL was still a serviceable top 4 dman good enough to carry the Cup Champs for a couple of months by himself basically providing what he used to be good at, PP quarter back. If they had not bought him out then what player isn't here? His cap hit is a 4+million dollar back hole or a 4 dollar player not on this team. Stated so they could get more players, who?

Good
Okay to Zadorov.
Many teams wanted this unicorn but Allvin stole him from the Flames for a 2nd rnd pick, a fantastic and envied trade. After getting here the Canuck defence got ranked in the top five in the NHL and Zadorov started to bloom.

Bad
.
The guy stated he wanted to stay, he would take a pay cut to stay, a guy that after playing for years behind high paid star defencemen got a chance and was starting to show just how good he really is and he is let go for a difference of 275 thousand? Does anyone understand the true significance of this? He is 29 yrs old, a deterrent, massive, very hard hitter, durable with no severe injuries, one of the fastest recorded skaters in the league at 37.5 kmh that had almost no PP time but still ended up being the 2nd highest scoring dman in the playoffs, a playoff performer that stepped his game up a notch or two when the real season was going. Played left or right side. Signing him would have secured a top 4 d position for the next 5 years or so with a rising cap to make 5 million in three years will be cheap. So the team could have had Hughes, Hronek, Zadorov with Myers/Pettersson/Willander/??? at known costs for 5 years or so.

Bad
Rachel Dohrety stuff
Ian Clarke issues
Maybe unintentional but possible Russian bias from coaching? All Russians eliminated from the team even at high expense for nothing in return except 20 some odd games?
Lindholm's snubbing of the Canucks in favour of moving across the country for the same money, why?
Almost the same number of picks traded away as the previous nightmare.
Not a problem yet but another 8 million dollar 37yr old forward, Miller will be 32 yrs old this year with another 5 years on his NMC contract?
Cap space eroded. 4+ mil dead cap space for the next two years of this team's "window"
Draft picks lost.

Hired in 2021
IMO they, Rutherford and Allvin, started with a vision of building a team but when they hired Tocchet they changed direction to his vision. The got rid of all the players he didn't like. IMO the Russians had fun, Kuzmenko was a card in the room, Zadorov took over the music played, Mikheyev smiled, they all did. Tocchet wanted guys like himself, Miller types, boards guys. Keenan players. Now they are stuck with this group and Tocchet's next contract to deal with next year. Again I think Tocchet will demand behind closed doors to get a deal done before the end of the season to extend him beyond 2026.

I hope the season starts soonest, this tin hat stuff can be so entertaining and laughable

It's blatantly obvious the vast majority of what Alvin has done has been solid if not very solid. To indict him based on trading Kuz for Lindholm (which many people, myself included looked at as a win and would most likely go back in time and re-do the same trade) is puzzling at best.

If you weigh the good vs. the bad the latter would far outweigh the former. I'm extremely confident in managements decisions..........yes I'm have PJBSD (Post Jim Benning Stress Disorder) I know however I have REALLY LIKED the vast majority of what current management has done.

 

[WTG]

Thank you for this post! I'm with you 100%. For some reason any criticism of the current management is instantly branded as some "Jim Benning" lover or some kind of crap. You'd think after how many years of crappy management, that a more critical eye is deserved.

It's like most of HFCanucks jumped from a super bad relationship and everything is super rosy with the new beau, until it's not.

The Mikheyev situation is one that most fans here have quietly buried. That was a total failure but people keep saying "well, at least we got out from that contract".

Mikheyev also got injured and had/played with a torn ACL. If he hadn't had that injury, who knows, he might still be on the team.

As for the difference in leniency that Benning vs Alvin get. I think it boils down to structure and plan. When Benning was running the team, I never got a sense of a plan or a long term vision of the team. The team refused to rebuild, would constantly trade away young players for mid/bad players to try and get them to the playoffs.

Whereas Alvin and Rutherford came in with a strong plan, brought in a bunch of people with expertise, and put people in positions to succeed. After this season you can see the culture that the organization wants to set and how they want to play.

I feel like all the critique of Benning was directed at him because there was no plan compared to Alvin. Also, Benning barely had any staff, he ran a bunch of people out the door. At the end there it seemed like it was basically Benning/Weisbrod running the entire show.

 

[Bubbles]

Mikheyev also got injured and had/played with a torn ACL. If he hadn't had that injury, who knows, he might still be on the team.

As for the difference in leniency that Benning vs Alvin get. I think it boils down to structure and plan. When Benning was running the team, I never got a sense of a plan or a long term vision of the team. The team refused to rebuild, would constantly trade away young players for mid/bad players to try and get them to the playoffs.

Whereas Alvin and Rutherford came in with a strong plan, brought in a bunch of people with expertise, and put people in positions to succeed. After this season you can see the culture that the organization wants to set and how they want to play.

I feel like all the critique of Benning was directed at him because there was no plan compared to Alvin. Also, Benning barely had any staff, he ran a bunch of people out the door. At the end there it seemed like it was basically Benning/Weisbrod running the entire show.

Yes, but this is all hindsight until the very end of Benning's error (era)

I'm very much behind this new management and I think they've done a great job so far. But to say they're one of the best in the last couple years? That's a lot of hyperbole and recency bias. If they don't meet expectations this upcoming season, does that change people's opinions?

 

[strattonius]

Yes, but this is all hindsight until the very end of Benning's error (era)

I'm very much behind this new management and I think they've done a great job so far. But to say they're one of the best in the last couple years? That's a lot of hyperbole and recency bias. If they don't meet expectations this upcoming season, does that change people's opinions?

Hyperbole and recency bias? What the hell else are we suppose to measure our management's ability if we can't use the 109 pt division winning team? Of course if the team fails hard this year we can re-align some of their decisions but none of that has happened yet.

 

[F A N]

Tyler Madden is on waivers for all you freaks that threw a hissy fit when he was traded away.

Go get him.

Development ruined by LA, one of the worse organizations in developing forwards in recent years.

 

[Vector]

A lot of the management teams that were thought of as some of the best have had massive missteps over the last couple years (Blake, Yzerman, and Fitszgerald as examples). Even a team that made the SCF ( Holland in Edmonton) has been heavily criticized and isn’t considered one of the best in the league. So I think it’s fair to say that this management group is up there as one the best based on last season’s result. They also was, pretty justifiably even if I didn’t really agree with it, heavy skepticism going into last season. There’s lots of room criticism whether it be moving mid-to-low tier assets to get out of mistakes/acquire marginal players, the weird, public, or very quiet firings of various front office and coaching staff or just a disagreement with player evaluations.

With more cap leeway, I think we will see more management groups looked upon positively (and few absolutely tanking themselves).

 

[VanJack]

What's always impressed me about Allvin, is that in the word of the gambler, "he knows when to hold-em, and when to throw-em". If he figures a guy can't help them, he's as good as gone, even if it was Allvin who signed him in the first place.

So players like Kuzmnko, Mikheyev, Beauvillier, Dickinson and Podkolzin were all flipped, often after only a single season. And Kuzmenko and Podkolzin were players that Allvin actually re-upped, before deciding to cut his losses.

It's such a refreshing approach. Under Benning, even when it became obvious that the guy they signed was a huge mistake and would never live up to expectations, he simply couldn't pull the trigger. And he even re-upped guys like Sutter and Gudbranson, after disappointing seasons.....somehow hoping they'd magically regain their form, whatever that was.

And I think Allvin is hardly done yet with the start of the season a week away. If he can make a deal that improves the hockey club even marginally, he'll do it. And if some guy they like pops up on waivers, he'll be active.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Can't remember which thread it was, but for those who were going on and on about how bad Green is. I just saw a new interview with Tocchet where he reiterated that he consults with Craig Berube, Jon Cooper, and Travis Green in terms of other coaches in the league.

Hello cognitive dissonance. It can't be that maybe there's more going on behind the scenes than people can see from the outside, can it?