Management Thread | Regular Season Edition

valkynax

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May 19, 2011
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Sighhhhhh…



When the terrible government gets overthrown and things get better, you don’t credit the overthrown guys…

I should make money giving the world’s shortest seminar on how draft picks are allocated.


What a dumbass, bet this is one of JEB's own twitter accounts trying to force a narrative that helps him steal more credits.

Funny how these limp dick attempts to give JEB more creds than he deserves always conveniently omit how much misery the team was left with immediately after the man's departure.

This guy makes Logan Paul look like Mark Twain in comparison.
 

Frankie Blueberries

Dream Team
Jan 27, 2016
9,414
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What a dumbass, bet this is one of JEB's own twitter accounts trying to force a narrative that helps him steal more credits.

Funny how these limp dick attempts to give JEB more creds than he deserves always conveniently omit how much misery the team was left with immediately after the man's departure.

This guy makes Logan Paul look like Mark Twain in comparison.
You are giving Elmer too much credit here. There is no way he would write a tweet like that without making a few spelling and/or grammatical errors. Remember he posed for a photo with his white board despite multiple major cities being spelled wrong, like Pittsburg?
 
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AwesomeInTheory

A Christmas miracle
Aug 21, 2015
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What a dumbass, bet this is one of JEB's own twitter accounts trying to force a narrative that helps him steal more credits.

Funny how these limp dick attempts to give JEB more creds than he deserves always conveniently omit how much misery the team was left with immediately after the man's departure.

This guy makes Logan Paul look like Mark Twain in comparison.

As I've said elsewhere, it's kind of bizarre to be giving credit to Benning for...drafting in the top 5/top 10 multiple times (and still managing to f*** it up several times, something that is exceptionally hard to do in the modern NHL), cratering the team's management, drafting (when you're a vaunted "talent whisperer" and produce turds like the 2016 draft...yikes), pro scouting (mentorpede, $12M 4th line, "foundation player" Sutter, etc.), cap structure, roster (the Toffoli/Tanev missteps, dumping valuable pieces for garbage), performance, etc.

I'll give him credit for the Miller trade, because even a blind squirrel finds a nut, and Boeser. But it's telling that the most successful draft under his watch (2014) was also the one he likely had the least input in (given the timing of his hiring and the draft) and that the only real 'hits' came from turning the team into a joke and making use of high first rounders.

Like, there's no convoluted story like Burke's wheeling and dealing to get the Sedins. It was just occupy space, pick player (or be told to pick player in at least one instance.)

And we should be celebrating that? lmao
 

andora

Registered User
Apr 23, 2002
24,410
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Victoria
You are giving Elmer too much credit here. There is no way he would write a tweet like that without making a few spelling and/or grammatical errors. Remember he posed for a photo with his white board despite multiple major cities being spelled wrong, like Pittsburg?
Goes to look for photo
 

TruGr1t

Proper Villain
Jun 26, 2003
24,373
8,855
The Canucks owner let Jim Benning hang out to dry way too long. Hopefully poor old Jim feels some satisfaction seeing this group having success.

I was going to say, wouldn't surprise me to see Benning pop back up somewhere around the league in a non-GM role following the Canucks success this season. Probably does give him a bit of leverage and time heals all.
 

Bojack Horvatman

IAMGROOT
Jun 15, 2016
4,426
7,958
Sighhhhhh…



When the terrible government gets overthrown and things get better, you don’t credit the overthrown guys…

I should make money giving the world’s shortest seminar on how draft picks are allocated.


It's like when the Panthers turned it around there were people that thought Tallon should get the credit not Zito because he built the core. When in reality kept building bad teams for a decade, got high picks from the league, and couldn't build good team. Same is true with Benning. Yes teams fail in drafting high like the Holland Red Wings. But getting some great young players should be the expectations. I drafted Fleury, Barbashev, Boeser, Tkachuk, Rasmussen, Dobson, and Boldy with our picks using Bob's list and a random number generator. The goal of a successful rebuild is to build a new core and build a winning team around them.

Who is this guy on Twitter..?..Anyway, both points can be true..JR/PA never acquired the worst team in NHL history (hyperbole)...and they never rebuilt it either..They retooled it (around the existing core..Jim Rutherford has explained this more than once).

Yeah. Nobody thought this was the worst team ever. Absolutely nobody. Nearly everyone the last few years thought we were a bubble team, not San Jose bad. It's the situation that everyone thought was bad. Talented core, but had lots of holes, players were deflated from years of losing and bad coaching. There also wasn't lots of time before EP could take a qualifying offer to UFA and there was a concern if he would stay here. Everybody thought it would be a tall task to turn around the team quickly and require a lot to go right. Management deserves a lot of credit here. Maybe a bit to patient to start and were fooled by the Bruce bump. Their work over the last year has been top notch though.
 

sting101

Registered User
Feb 8, 2012
16,432
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i liked what JEB was able to put together from 2017-2019/20 season in terms of a roster

Core - Drafted PETTERSSON HUGHES traded for MILLER.
BOESER DEMKO HORVAT were all in place. Had the makings of a great core that could do some damage.

2019 Drafted PODKOLZIN and HOGLANDER

Acquired MILLER TOFFOLI PEARSON MOTTE GOLDOBIN LEIVO SCHENN MacEWEN along the way for 1st 3rd 2nd Madden Schaller Vanek Hansen Carcone DeZotto Gudbranson

Pettersson Miller Boeser -----Edler Myers-----Markstrom
Pearson Horvat Toffoli -------Hughes Tanev---Demko
Roussel Sutter Virtanen------ Benn Stecher
Motte Beagle MacEwen------ Fantenberg
Gaudette

Not a bad looking team.

Problem as usual outside of the lack of Coaching Pro Scouting Development staff and checks and balances culture etc was poor value signings which would create a disaster situation with Eriksson Sutter Gagner Baertschi Beagle Roussel Myers Ferland Luongo not a single piece other than Myers that couldn't be replaced with a good 1million dollar signing ravaging 20 million in dead cap space.

the 2 off seasons that followed were crippling.....

Out = 9OA 2nd Tanev Toffoli 3rd
In = OEL Garland Poolman Holtby Hamonic Dickinson and another roughly 10 million added in dead cap space and the team had now flushed out the prospect pool and 2 more drafts worth of top picks. Thank F they made it stop
 
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lousy

Registered User
Jul 20, 2004
948
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Calgary
I can admit Benning drafted the canucks a great future core and even made a good trade here and there. But I can also see he was unable to build a supporting cast or bring in coaches that could work with the players he had. Those negatives were the reason the canucks could never succeed under Jim Benning.
 
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valkynax

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May 19, 2011
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I can admit Benning drafted the canucks a great future core and even made a good trade here and there. But I can also see he was unable to build a supporting cast or bring in coaches that could work with the players he had. Those negatives were the reason the canucks could never succeed under Jim Benning.

It's part of a bigger pile of reasons. And I'll try my best to write them. I wrote this before in many capacities, and I'll happily write them without any reservation.

JEB is a terrible GM and found no success because...
- He doesn't know how to give out proper contracts. Most of the contracts he signed range from bad to "you gotta be KIDDING me". Just look at Sbisa, and Sutter, and Eriksson, and the countless others.
- He's really not that great of a drafter. Now, I said I'm giving him credit for drafting Pete Hughes and Boeser, well done. But his misses on OJ and JV are inexcusable, this coupled with Linden's accusation that he wanted Glass, paints a picture of a man whose so-called eye for talent might not be a real thing. Remember when he compared OJ to Lidstrom? And mentioned Sutter and Bergeron + Toews in the same context?
- His UFA acquisitions are dreadful. Most of the UFAs he brought it didn't accomplish much, even when given undeserved chances (Megna, Chaput are the most obvious examples I can think of).
- He can't trade worth shit. OEL, Forsling, plus a list long enough to write a book about, yeah...
- He does not have a grasp on asset management. We almost never had spare cap space, with underwhelming players on bloated contracts, which gives us no cap flexibility to improve. He routinely make buy high sell low type moves, then lose value in the process, and consistently so.
- He does not present well. As GM who's inevitable talking to the media a lot, he does not project any kind of competence or strength. He talks like a dimwit, frequently adds random stalling words in his sentences, and always seem to be thinking 3 steps behind the question and the conversation.
- He lacks self-awareness. This is a bit of a guess work based on watching and listening to him through the years, but he seems to present this...feeling that he's ahead of everyone else, that he's smarter than everyone else, and he's pouncing on deals that he had snatched out of other GM's grasps with seconds to spare. Like when he tried to talk to PK Subban, got caught and ended up looking like a total dumbass.
- His character is quite strange. I say that because morons like Seravelli's defense for JEB is "oh but he's a nice guy". While that may be true, many incidents seems to show that he's not exactly the Mr. Rogers of hockey ops here. He compared the team's difficult situation to the terrible flood of Abbosford, he didn't even try to offer anything to Tanev despite the latter basically had no reason not to be here, he dragged his family into the conversation in an attempt to gain sympathy and pity points. I think the most likely explanation is that JEB is simply just an idiot, but even then, the "he's a nice guy" defense is by far one of the weakest excuses.

The "most GM's are bad" excuse is also very weak. Yes, almost all GM's screw up, but I have not seen many who's screwing up so consistently. And the notion that if we had drafted better in OJ and JV years we won't be able to get our current core is just a twisted butterfly effect excuse, if we didn't get those prospects maybe we can draft someone who'll turn out similar? Who's to say?

Moleman and Mr. Clean are the ones who did the heavy lifting. The team is having success despite JEB's incompetence, not because of it.

EDIT: I definitely consider myself to be far to the "dumb" end of hockey knowledge spectrum, this is the crap I come up with in 10 minutes off the top of my head. The more well-read, well-versed and well informed people/fans know exactly how much horrible details I'm not including.
 
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Hit the post

I have your gold medal Zippy!
Oct 1, 2015
22,725
14,634
Hiding under WTG's bed...
You are giving Elmer too much credit here. There is no way he would write a tweet like that without making a few spelling and/or grammatical errors. Remember he posed for a photo with his white board despite multiple major cities being spelled wrong, like Pittsburg?
Jethro Bodine couldn't spell his first name if you spotted him the letters "J" & "M".:laugh:

edit: if one is going to question the stupidity of a former GM, better not make a dumber mistake by spelling his name (J*B) :laugh:
 

Bojack Horvatman

IAMGROOT
Jun 15, 2016
4,426
7,958
It's part of a bigger pile of reasons. And I'll try my best to write them. I wrote this before in many capacities, and I'll happily write them without any reservation.

JEB is a terrible GM and found no success because...
- He doesn't know how to give out proper contracts. Most of the contracts he signed range from bad to "you gotta be KIDDING me". Just look at Sbisa, and Sutter, and Eriksson, and the countless others.
- He's really not that great of a drafter. Now, I said I'm giving him credit for drafting Pete Hughes and Boeser, well done. But his misses on OJ and JV are inexcusable, this coupled with Linden's accusation that he wanted Glass, paints a picture of a man whose so-called eye for talent might not be a real thing. Remember when he compared OJ to Lidstrom? And mentioned Sutter and Bergeron + Toews in the same context?
- His UFA acquisitions are dreadful. Most of the UFAs he brought it didn't accomplish much, even when given undeserved chances (Megna, Chaput are the most obvious examples I can think of).
- He can't trade worth shit. OEL, Forsling, plus a list long enough to write a book about, yeah...
- He does not have a grasp on asset management. We almost never had spare cap space, with underwhelming players on bloated contracts, which gives us no cap flexibility to improve. He routinely make buy high sell low type moves, then lose value in the process, and consistently so.
- He does not present well. As GM who's inevitable talking to the media a lot, he does not project any kind of competence or strength. He talks like a dimwit, frequently adds random stalling words in his sentences, and always seem to be thinking 3 steps behind the question and the conversation.
- He lacks no self-awareness. This is a bit of a guess work based on watching and listening to him through the years, but he seems to present this...feeling that he's ahead of everyone else, that he's smarter than everyone else, and he's pouncing on deals that he had snatched out of other GM's grasps with seconds to spare. Like when he tried to talk to PK Subban, got caught and ended up looking like a total dumbass.
- His character is quite strange. I say that because morons like Seravelli's defense for JEB is "oh but he's a nice guy". While that may be true, many incidents seems to show that he's not exactly the Mr. Rogers of hockey ops here. He compared the team's difficult situation to the terrible flood of Abbosford, he didn't even try to offer anything to Tanev despite the latter basically had no reason not to be here, he dragged his family into the conversation in an attempt to gain sympathy and pity points. I think the most likely explanation is that JEB is simply just an idiot, but even then, the "he's a nice guy" defense is by far one of the weakest excuses.

The "most GM's are bad" excuse is also very weak. Yes, almost all GM's screw up, but I have not seen many who's screwing up so consistently. And the notion that if we had drafted better in OJ and JV years we won't be able to get our current core is just a twisted butterfly effect excuse, if we didn't get those prospects maybe we can draft someone who'll turn out similar? Who's to say?

Moleman and Mr. Clean are the ones who did the heavy lifting. The team is having success despite JEB's incompetence, not because of it.

Honestly in a normal world I wouldn't even care about drafting Virtanen and Juolevi. Drafting out of all the parts of the GM job has the most luck. Nobody will get it right all the time. For the same reason why it is stupid to keep a GM if the only thing they can do is draft.

The Juolevi pick was just a symptom of that they had no clue how to run an organization, didn't know how to delegate, and Jim and John ran every department(poorly).

It's night and day. Everything the old regime did poorly, the old regime is excelling in other than maybe a few hiccups.
-Filling out the organization with competent people top to bottom.
-Prioritizing the coaching staff and player development.
-Building Abbotsford. Putting players like Hoglander and now Podkolzin in Abbotsford. Looks like they are going to let most prospects stew in Abbotsford.
-Not spending big assets and finding cheap role players. The one big trade they have made has been for 25 top 4 D that was starting to play at a first pairing level. Not panic trades to save jobs even if the Miller trade worked wonderfully for us(Oel trade though...)

Jim Benning was not a scout, he was the general manager
 

valkynax

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May 19, 2011
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Honestly in a normal world I wouldn't even care about drafting Virtanen and Juolevi. Drafting out of all the parts of the GM job has the most luck. Nobody will get it right all the time. For the same reason why it is stupid to keep a GM if the only thing they can do is draft.

The Juolevi pick was just a symptom of that they had no clue how to run an organization, didn't know how to delegate, and Jim and John ran every department(poorly).

It's night and day. Everything the old regime did poorly, the old regime is excelling in other than maybe a few hiccups.
-Filling out the organization with competent people top to bottom.
-Prioritizing the coaching staff and player development.
-Building Abbotsford. Putting players like Hoglander and now Podkolzin in Abbotsford. Looks like they are going to let most prospects stew in Abbotsford.
-Not spending big assets and finding cheap role players. The one big trade they have made has been for 25 top 4 D that was starting to play at a first pairing level. Not panic trades to save jobs even if the Miller trade worked wonderfully for us(Oel trade though...)

Jim Benning was not a scout, he was the general manager

Yep, a GM doesn't have to be good at everything. If you're not a good drafter, but can spot good UFAs and college prospects, that's fine. If you're not good with contract negotiation, but knows how to buy low sell high and keep a careful eye on cap space, that'll work. But at some point you'll start to notice that your strengths are not able to keep up with your deficits, and that's when things will start to turn sideways.

For JEB, drafting is the one thing that he's not shitty at (I seriously doubt that he's actually a good drafter), but it's nowhere near enough to cover for the ten thousand other things that he's doing so badly.
 
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racerjoe

Registered User
Jun 3, 2012
12,359
6,177
Vancouver
I can’t believe anyone would be so stupid to say this teams success has anything to do with anything good Jim Benning has done.

This teams success should show just how terrible a job he had done.
 

hlrsr

Registered User
Sep 16, 2006
2,555
54
I remember the same conversations about whose team it really was with Gillis. He didn't personally bring in the Sedins, Kesler, Bieksa, Luongo! That was Nonis' team! And Burke!

But.. what's your point? Isn't it obvious by now that the players you surround them with, cap management, leadership, culture, etc. all are really important as well?

Jim Benning was a complete disaster. We all saw it with his signings, trades, leadership, and any other aspect of the job really. What point is anyone making by mentioning that there were indeed some good players in the organization after nearly 8 years at the helm?
 

RebuildinVan

Registered User
Jun 25, 2017
2,289
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Has anyone taken the time to figure out how much $$ he pissed away on absolutely useless forgettable contracts? Its a large number.
 
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stewy04

Registered User
Jun 19, 2016
370
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Anyone see Bruce Boudreau say that someone in the organization was pushing Hughes to be a center? That's crazy!! Things coaches have to deal with with owners I'm assuming.
 

geebster

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Oct 26, 2019
2,051
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Anyone see Bruce Boudreau say that someone in the organization was pushing Hughes to be a center? That's crazy!! Things coaches have to deal with with owners I'm assuming.
I really hope it isnt someone who is still with the organization or is prominent/making decisions right now.

Hughes was great last year I cant imagine ever for a second thinking he should play center when you got Petey, Miller, Horvat in addition to our D being absolute dogwater without him.
 

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