Where will Leon Draisaitl rank all-time by the end of his career?

[McFlash97]

Draisaitl is already sitting with 6 - 100 point seasons if I'm not mistaken. Thats more than Jaromir mofo Jagr, who played nearly 20 seasons and half dozen seasons with a prime 66.

Draisaitl is on pace for being a top 10 player at this rate.

 

[daver]

Yeah, but at the end of careers, it's somewhat easier. In 2012, it would have been easier to claim Malkin was better than Sakic, Francis, or even Trottier. Now? Not quite the same.

You can claim that peak Malkin was better than them but he did reach them in his prime.

Not sure that Draisaitl has reached the peak of any C in the Top 50 yet.

 

[daver]

You can claim that peak Malkin was better than them but he did reach them in his prime.

Not sure that Draisaitl has reached the peak of any C in the Top 50 yet.

Weird that someone would literally laugh at this claim but they may want to cry given that Forsberg and Malkin are arguably not even in the Top 50 and both peaked higher than Draisaitl.

 

[Wings4Life]

Weird that someone would literally laugh at this claim but they may want to cry given that Forsberg and Malkin are arguably not even in the Top 50 and both peaked higher than Draisaitl.

I don't think anyone could argue Malkin outside the top 50 while keeping a straight face on? I could be wrong, but that would be a pretty big stretch.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Draisaitl is already sitting with 6 - 100 point seasons if I'm not mistaken. Thats more than Jaromir mofo Jagr, who played nearly 20 seasons and half dozen seasons with a prime 66.

Draisaitl is on pace for being a top 10 player at this rate.

Jagr did that in the dead puck era, a much more impressive achievement. He has 5 art rosses including 4 straight from 97-01. Totally different caliber player than Drai, come on now.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I disagree, that HF user list is biased by definition.

Statistical bias is the systematic tendency in which the methods used to gather data and generate statistics (eg. having a large group of North Americans submit ranking lists) present a skewed depiction of reality (eg. having North American players ranked above non-North American players).

This is a fact-based argument, as the majority of the voters in that subforum who created that list were/are North American. Of course, biased North American voters will often throw in a token Russian or Swede high up their ratings, to appear neutral. That is a common tactic. Some may even be unaware of their own bias, since this can manifest itself in subtle ways.

The net result of a board process is the same, you get guys like Malkin rated low and some North American players rated higher than they should be.

The way to remove this bias is to adjust for the confounding variable of nationality in one’s voting panel. Otherwise, one will simply continue to produce biased lists.

Let's continue this conversation in this thread. (This conversation has nothing to do with Draisaitl anymore). I'll post my response when I have time over the next few days.

 

[authentic]

I mean... I honestly can't tell if Daver is trolling me or not.

But yeah... Draisaitl totally takes on easier competition in comparison to...

Forsberg who played behind Sakic, and Malkin who played behind Crosby.


Nonono this standard only applies to Draisaitl?

Forsberg didn’t play behind Sakic though, they had separate parts of their career where they faced the other top scorers and checking lines. Forsberg generally went against top lines when Hartley coached then it switched with Crawford. I think your point still stands with Draisaitl although I think he may still benefit from McDavid more than any superstar does from a single linemate however MacKinnon having Makar and Rantanen is basically the best you could ask for in a defense and forward combo.

 

[wetcoast]

Giving this a bump as we are getting close the the SC finals here and the Oilers might very well play Florida once again for Lord Stanley's Cup and both players are adding to their already extremely impressive resumes.

 

[Mr Kot]

For now, top 50 , but he is easily going to be in conversation for top 20 or more if he wins more awards

 

[Connor McConnor]

Weird that someone would literally laugh at this claim but they may want to cry given that Forsberg and Malkin are arguably not even in the Top 50 and both peaked higher than Draisaitl.

they are laughing at your claim because you pretend like peaking for 1-2 seasons is better than being consistently great for 10+ which Drai will do. Also, Drai peak is not far off either, arguably better than Foppa.

 

[Coffee]

Top 5.

He’s just getting started

 

[Kranix]

Is daver in here spinning and machinating on behalf of Crosby's all-time placement somehow?

 

[Galactico]

He would easily average 20 pts less per season if he wasn’t playing with McDavid.

 

[hamzarocks]

He will end up behind Kucherov and potentially Mackinnon and ofcourse Mcdavid

Every players max ceilings

Mcdavid - 2nd all time

Kucherov - 5th to 15th all time

Mackinnon- 10th - 20th all time

Draisaitl - 12th-20th all time

Each of them still have a ways to go and realistically, Kucherov wont end 5th all time and be likely top 20ish Mackinnon probably ends top 25ish and Drai top 30ish while Mcdavid likely ends 4th or 5th

But 4 of the top 40 players ever dominated this era. 2020 to now has been ridiculously stacked for all time great forward talent

 

[Gnome17]

I think points wise if he stays healthy he should be a lock for 1400, that would put him in the top 25 in points.
If he wins his second hart trophy this year, how many players have won 2 hart, 1 art ross, 1 maurice richard, 1 ted lindsay and have 1400 points? Just in terms of forwards hes probably top 15 for me then. And he has way higher upside points wise. So I think top 25 for sure.

 

[PuckG]

He would easily average 20 pts less per season if he wasn’t playing with McDavid.

Why 20 points? Because you feel like it?

Realistically, it’s no different than MacKinnon’s production dropping without Rantanen.

What a shocker, take away an elite line mate and production will take a hit.

 

[Galactico]

Why 20 points? Because you feel like it?

Realistically, it’s no different than MacKinnon’s production dropping without Rantanen.

What a shocker, take away an elite line mate and production will take a hit.

Mackinnon would be averaging 20 points more per season by playing with McDavid.

 

[JFedol]

Should be comfortably top 20th by the time it's all said and done.

I still think a bunch of pre-cap centres were better though IMO. (Forsberg, Lindros)

 

[PuckG]

Mackinnon would be averaging 20 points more per season by playing with McDavid.

Again, you pulling out abstract values out of your ass is meaningless.

At the end of the day, MacKinnon and Draisaitl are comparable and will be competing for a similar spot in the top 30.

 

[Skolman]

He would easily average 20 pts less per season if he wasn’t playing with McDavid.

As would MacKinnon if he wasn't playing with the best offensive defenseman in hockey.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Yeah, but at the end of careers, it's somewhat easier. In 2012, it would have been easier to claim Malkin was better than Sakic, Francis, or even Trottier. Now? Not quite the same.

It’s quite reasonable to rank Malkin ahead of those three. He was a better player at his peak, accumulated more major individual NHL awards than they did, and is still adding to his career totals even now. He also has a significantly better playoff resume than Trottier and Yzerman, despite playing his best years in a lower scoring era.

 

[Coffey]

As would MacKinnon if he wasn't playing with the best offensive defenseman in hockey.

They don't have Bouchard.

 

[centipede2233]

Just behind marner. Mitch does a better job milking money so I have him ahead of drasaitl

 

[nowhereman]

Should be comfortably top 20th by the time it's all said and done.

I still think a bunch of pre-cap centres were better though IMO. (Forsberg, Lindros)

Everyone has their own list but I just can't see him cracking the top 20 when guys like Mikita, Esposito, Clarke, Messier, Yzerman, Sakic and Trottier aren't really clear top 20 guys either. Unless he wins a Smythe at some point, he'll likely cap out as a guy who had one great year of hardware and, like it or not, will always been seen as the Robin to McDavid's Batman. That's not good enough to jump ahead of guys who have 4-5 Art Ross trophies, multiple Harts or a handful of Cups. His numbers are great but this is also as high a scoring an era as we've seen since the 80s.

 

[Duke74]

He would easily average 20 pts less per season if he wasn’t playing with McDavid.

You can also argue that he would have a lot more points if he wasn't playing with players like Kapanen, Podkolzin, Rieder, Chiasson, Khaira, Yamamoto, and other plugs that he's been stuck with when away from McDavid. So it balances out in the end.