Management Discussion | Pre-Season Approaching

[VanillaCoke]

Imagine Boudreau resigns this week lol

 

[PuckMunchkin]

So.

We exited our window faster than a member of the political opposition in russia.

 

[4Twenty]

This off-season felt like just another off-season. Certainly not wildly different than Benning. It felt like earlyish Lindenning to me. Said so all summer.

 

[Fatass]

Amazing how Benning prioritized carrier cultures for all of those years and then let go of two of our biggest carrier cultures at the time (Markstrom and Edler). This team needed to proceed forward with Markstrom and Tanev at the time. Just an absolutely gut wrenching loss that has lead to this miserable state today.

I know people like Sutter, Beagle, Roussel, and Eriksson were significantly overpriced, but contracts aside, we can now see what they did for us in terms of Penalty Killing (Beagle and Sutter), Face-offs (Horvat, Beagle, Sutter), leadership, and having the ability to hold leads (Pearson-Horvat-Eriksson could be thrown out there at any time). Back in 2016, everyone wanted to move Tanev for a pick but look at what Tanev did in the dressing room........and for Quinn Hughes.

How Benning screwed that 2020 off-season is beyond me. He was afraid of committing to term on Tanev and Markstrom (cap hit wasn't the issue here), and then he goes out and gets OEL.

Oh well - hindsight is 20/20. This team is done and needs to be blown up.

I was wrong about this team.

It’s our team and we want not too hemp to be good. Many fans have been calling for a rebuild from back when gillis asked the owner to do that.
Clearly we need to trade a couple core pieces.
Hughes and Bo?
Miller and Bo?
Demko and Miller and Hughes?
We need futures (picks, prospects).
Not too sure how to get that though?

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

We all knew Aquilini hired Boudreau but JR seems to suggest he didnt even know he was signed to 2 years. Seems like it was a full FAQ hire without anyones input.

Just seems like management wasn't the biggest fan of him but FAQ probably gave them no choice in keeping him this season.

 

[TruGr1t]

So out of curiosity... who's actually saying this?

I'd also like to point out that this more or less what people wanted for the Colorado plan as the Avs imploding in 2016-17 is how they added Makar to the team when they already had Mackinnon/Rantanen/Landeskog/Duchene. Something I often try to push across here is too many people don't seem to consider the time frame of how these things work.

Fair point. To be honest, nobody credible. I think most people with their heads on straight realize this team is pretty much screwed.

 

[andora]

I believe schenn's conversation with miller last nighr could expedite things in terms of the next move. I dont think it will be a sexy move but a chip away move.. continue to chip away

I would find it hard to believe if they they werent burning the phones with boeser horvat myers and pearsons names..

I love luke schenn and what he appears to be doing... play defence enough is enough and just do it.

 

[canucksfan]

Anyone know the teams playoff chances?

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Anyone know the teams playoff chances?

We need to go at a 102 pace the rest of the way.

Odds are probably near 30%.

 

[4Twenty]

So out of curiosity... who's actually saying this?

I'd also like to point out that this more or less what people wanted for the Colorado plan as the Avs imploding in 2016-17 is how they added Makar to the team when they already had Mackinnon/Rantanen/Landeskog/Duchene. Something I often try to push across here is too many people don't seem to consider the time frame of how these things work.

Disagree with this interpretation/narrative!!

Colorado didn’t double down on their duchene either.

They moved forward depth to the defence (Girard).

Besides this group is probably closer to the Avs that dealt ROR than the one that moved Duchene.


Also I think the comparison is shitty anyways and feel like it’s only being made as some sort of attempted dunk on folks who wouldn’t have doubled down on this shit. It’s the lazy “fans can’t handle a rebuild” shtick when they’re not rebuilding just basically the same group who was out of the running by November last season.

 

[theguardianII]

Can we (ie YOU to whoever does this thankless job) please update some of these thread titles? Preseason what? Some of us aren't on every day etc.

Also?!!!! New thread for post game! Game thread is for live reactions...post game is for diagnosis and analysis.

Who is with ME!?

WHO IS WITH ME????

No but seriously please start a new thread for the people not losing their shit and want to talk exesandohs

It is next years pre-season at this point it should be anyway

 

[Melvin]

1) Miller (29) was signed to an 8 year deal and so you get off on a technicality.
2) Boeser should not have been re-signed.
3) Our 1st round pick wasn't traded but a 2nd was basically gifted to Chicago.

We get it. You hate Benning but your bias has clearly clouded your judgement.

Ps - Benning got Petey to sign at 7.3 million and so your Miller AAV comment is clearly out to lunch.

Wow, thanks for telling me 3 things that I noted in my post. Is this HFsplaining?

7.3M for Petey is not an amazing deal considering the term and circumstances (RFA vs UFA)

I stand by what I said. This past off-season would have been Benning's best off-season in Vancouver if it were performed by him. Tell me which of his off-seasons was better.

 

[canucksfan]

I was optimistic before the Miller and Boeser signings but now I don't see how there's a way out. The players that need to be traded, either suck, are very overpaid, or both. Management is going to have to add prospects or picks to get rid of them.

I doubt there's a team in the league that is in a worse position than the Nucks.

 

[m9]

Wow, thanks for telling me 3 things that I noted in my post. Is this HFsplaining?

7.3M for Petey is not an amazing deal considering the term and circumstances (RFA vs UFA)

I stand by what I said. This past off-season would have been Benning's best off-season in Vancouver if it were performed by him. Tell me which of his off-seasons was better.

You pretty much have to say "least-damaging" to describe off-seasons here the last decade and 2017 would probably be my pick, especially if you include the EP draft pick.

Canucks Off-Season Signings | Vancouver Canucks

Get caught-up on all of the changes that occurred this summer.

www.nhl.com

 

[TruGr1t]

I have believed that as soon as the ink dried on the Miller extension that this franchise was closer to a rebuild than being a legitimately good team. They'll be there within 2 seasons, I'd wager.

If you listen to Pettersson's interview last night, guy sounds defeated. I'm not sure how they keep some of these guys around, speaking of the Pettersson bridge deal.

 

[andora]

I have believed that as soon as the ink dried on the Miller extension that this franchise was closer to a rebuild than being a legitimately good team. They'll be there within 2 seasons, I'd wager.

If you listen to Pettersson's interview last night, guy sounds defeated. I'm not sure how they keep some of these guys around, speaking of the Pettersson bridge deal.

It was interesting when he was asked about changes.. he wanted to say yes and caught himself.. atleast what i think

 

[NoShowWilly]

This team was put into a tough spot in that benning locked up the entirety of the defense to multiyear deals.

Hamonic was the easiest to move with only a year left.

Myers can possibly move at the deadline but definitely in the offseason.

Poolman having 2 more years after this. He is bought out at season's end. 100%. 500k, 500k, 1m, 1m

OEL was such a poor target because of the money involved. His position is hughes position. He was not necessary at all. It is just going to get worse.

This defense, just like the forwards, lacks quality penalty killers. Missing a first pk unit basically.

There is way too much money allotted to it for what is accomplishes. cannot just throw more money on it to 'fix it'. Will just have to wait.

 

[m9]

This off-season felt like just another off-season. Certainly not wildly different than Benning. It felt like earlyish Lindenning to me. Said so all summer.

Yup. Every off-season is a bit different, but the big moves were sign Kuzmenko, re-sign Miller, re-sign Boeser, sign Mikheyev, trade a 2nd to pay for those signings. Depth signings/moves from there. Just seemed like usual business.

Was it less damaging than most Benning off-seasons? I think so, though if Miller is a disaster there's the chance that non-trade could be really bad given the opportunity cost of not getting assets back.

 

[gringo]

Benning wasn't trying to "compete" from 2015 to 2018 ('compete' as in win a cup). Him and Linden were realistic as to where this club was after they lost to the Flames in 2015. What he wanted to do was get the young guys to compete so that they could make the playoffs and get playoff exposure so that it would aid in their development. He wanted the young guys on the team to earn their spots and positions on the roster while being surrounded by good character vets.

After 2015, Benning had two primary options:

1) Push kids into the line-up even if they weren't quite ready.

2) Insulate whatever youth you had in the line-up (on the farm or via acquired reclamation projects), and surround them with veteran character players.

Benning initially tried to do option #1 by gifting Virtanen and McCann roster spots but the plan failed miserably.......and so Benning went with #2 which was extremely controversial. Since we had little to nothing in the system that was ready to be elevated, Benning spent picks on reclamation projects such as Vey, Granlund, Baertschi, etc. (lukewarm success but major failure for the most part). Benning also tried to bring in vets that would set the culture for this team.

I won't go into all the reasons as to why "the culture carriers" approach was a failure (you guys know all the reasons and its been repeated at nauseam), but I will say this:

1) This team was starting to trend upwards during the 2019-2020 season
2) With Beagle and Sutter here, we had an excellent PK if I recall correctly (or middle or the pack, my memory is fading)
3) As much of a shitshow as Loui Eriksson was, you could almost always depend on Pearson-Horvat-Eriksson to be thrown out there to protect a lead and take on the toughest match-ups.

As we saw in the bubble that year, our team chemistry was very strong. We defeated a superior Blues team and managed to push Vegas to 7 games even though we had no business doing so. Demko was off the hook against Vegas obviously, but a lot of that bubble success had to do with our team chemistry. Guys like Markstrom, Tanev, Edler, Beagle, Sutter, and Roussel helped make that room tick......and even players afterwards talked about how a leadership void existed once Markstrom, Tanev, Edler, and Toffoli were gone.

In my opinion, Benning should have done two things differently:

1) Handle the 2020 post bubble off-season much better (replace Green with Boudreau/etc., move on from Boeser and Virtanen, find a way to move Baertschi and Sutter, keep all of Markstrom, Tanev, and Toffoli).

2) Instead of signing expensive vets to 5-6 year deals, weaponize cap space and bring in overpaid vets from other teams with picks attached (i.e. instead of signing Prust, accept Bickell with a 1st attached). Instead of going after Loui Eriksson, going after another vet on a shorter term deal, etc. Maybe even sign a PTO-calibre vet to a multi-year deal (2-3 years) if you want a blend of veteran leadership and contracts expiring at an appropriate time.

Anyways, hindsight is 20/20. Benning made a lot of awful moves, but I do find it funny that the people that mocked Benning for being obsessed with "intangibles" are now the same guys that are complaining about a lack of leadership in the room, as well as our awful PK (Beagle, Sutter), and an inability to hold leads (Pearson-Horvat-Eriksson). A lot of these guys also wanted to trade Tanev to Toronto back in 2016 (Tanev played a massive role in helping Hughes acclimate).

Benning's biggest downfall in my eyes is that he broke his promise. Benning's promise was that all/most of our 'veteran/transitional' contracts would be off the books once we were ready to move upwards. After the 2020 bubble, Benning failed to move guys like Baertschi and Sutter to clear cap space while letting guys like Markstrom, Tanev, and Toffoli walk.

I disagree with almost every point you’ve made here. The team was trending no where with Benning. He was awful in every regard. He’s crippled this franchise. We have no youth movement- nothing remotely approaching a team like the Sabres. What in the world this post must come from an alternate reality.

 

[Vector]

I’m emotionally disengaged from the Canucks but I find this fascinating. So much blame to go around:

-ownership for letting it get to this point by supporting years of mismanagement
-Benning and Weisbrod for slowly destroying the structure of the organization apart to strike their overinflated egos and make the worse decisions time and time again
-new management for doubling down on a team that has proved to be emotionally fragile and choosing but not executing on a middle path
-coaching going with suboptimal lineups and reverting to the least creative and effective options at a moment’s notice
-the entitled players that have accomplished nothing; given big contracts but show up for training camp unprepared and look completely lost to start the season

Now management is in such a hole there’s nothing they can do; nearly every player is valueless. Players that actually have shown up will be lost. Even if they turn it around and go on a good run the best case scenario is identical to last season. Just not good enough to ever compete for anything significant. Only hope for legitimate contention is on unrealistic circumstances going the Canucks way again and again (draft lottery win, Miller traded to a dumb team for a haul, Horvat takes a discount, traded players net unlikely returns that contribute quickly).

They can’t go forward with this group but because they chose to try and succeed with them, nothing can be done.

It’s f*cking purgatory.

 

[PavelBure10]

Watching his former team that completely abandoned him, fall apart in shambles. I bet Chris Tanev is smiling about this somewhere in Calgary.

 

[valkynax]

I’m emotionally disengaged from the Canucks but I find this fascinating. So much blame to go around:

-ownership for letting it get to this point by supporting years of mismanagement
-Benning and Weisbrod for slowly destroying the structure of the organization apart to strike their overinflated egos and make the worse decisions time and time again
-new management for doubling down on a team that has proved to be emotionally fragile and choosing but not executing on a middle path
-coaching going with suboptimal lineups and reverting to the least creative and effective options at a moment’s notice
-the entitled players that have accomplished nothing; given big contracts but show up for training camp unprepared and look completely lost to start the season

Now management is in such a hole there’s nothing they can do; nearly every player is valueless. Players that actually have shown up will be lost. Even if they turn it around and go on a good run the best case scenario is identical to last season. Just not good enough to ever compete for anything significant. Only hope for legitimate contention is on unrealistic circumstances going the Canucks way again and again (draft lottery win, Miller traded to a dumb team for a haul, Horvat takes a discount, traded players net unlikely returns that contribute quickly).

They can’t go forward with this group but because they chose to try and succeed with them, nothing can be done.

It’s f*cking purgatory.

But but but they're just unlucky!

And feelings!

And we don't care about reality!

And...and other excuses!!!

 

[JimmyJiveJones]

has anyone mentioned the coachig staff. Jason King is pretty much self explanatory, i still dont understand how he was able to keep his job. Mike Yeo, i was always wary about that hire. Trent Cull? i was extremely surprised he was hired to the big club, his coaching records for our AHL team was not good so i was perplexed about that.

 

[NoShowWilly]

has anyone mentioned the coachig staff. Jason King is pretty much self explanatory, i still dont understand how he was able to keep his job. Mike Yeo, i was always wary about that hire. Trent Cull? i was extremely surprised he was hired to the big club, his coaching records for our AHL team was not good so i was perplexed about that.

Definitely in the peripheral. I don't like the staff. I wouldn't say they are the main issue though.

#1 with a bullet is the defense composition.
#2 is inability of forwards to penalty kill.

The penalty kill just destroys any confidence this team might have.

 

[EpochLink]

Why the f*** did we keep Jason King? He’s like Nolan Baumgartner with no street cred. The PP has been shit this year, no movement and all standing still.

Never understood why he was kept