Management Discussion | Pre-Season Approaching

[gringo]

I wonder how distant but green the relatively quiet pastures of Pittsburgh look from an 0-2-1 start in Vancouver…

Jeff Paterson is reporting that Boudreau and the Canucks braintrust might be reaching a 'fork in the road'.

Boudreau is an old-school coach who eschews new fangled analytics for good old fashioned motivation and fiddling with playing time. Whilst the Canucks head office types are harping on things like 'zone exits' and possession stats.

The first salvo was fired by Rutherford in the off-season, who said the Canucks might be one of the worst teams in the league in terms of 'zone exits'. And Boudreau fired back after the opening three-game losing streak, saying the team was 'mentally weak'. Ouch!

And in the last game the coach inexplicably benched Burroughs and Garland. While all the analytics numbers confirm that in terms of zone possession guys like Stillman, Aman and Joshua are getting buried alive. And then there's the plight of Rathbone. He needs to play or head back to the farm.

Unless the Canucks pull out of this nosedive in a hurry--the next change might be behind the bench. There's an underlying reason why they signed Colliton imo.

Pathetic excuses for the crap team they’ve built

 

[racerjoe]

Not sure if the full IMac/Rutherford piece was posted somewhere around here: Rutherford on Canucks' historic string of collapses: 'Too much of giving the game back'

This stands out to me:

“But I'm not totally surprised at what's happening. I've talked about this since I came to Vancouver and what I've seen with his team: We have good players here, but how do you become a winning team? It's about playing the game the right way and playing with good habits.”​

​

In this respect, Rutherford said he saw progress in Columbus, where the Canucks took better care of the puck and didn’t collapse after losing their lead. They dominated late in the third period despite playing their second road game in 24 hours.​

He's still talking about "good habits", and a bunch of guys in their mid-to-late 20s learning how to win.

I mean is it our early 20's guys? Miller has been terrible, and Horvat hasn't been great. Both guys that should be better.

 

[4Twenty]

Playing the right way is just another hockey jargon term like “meat and potatoes”. It’s just hockey speak that means very little.


Luke Schenn has provided the best actual insight so far imo.

 

[Hit the post]

I don’t expect relevance anytime in the 2020s.

I've been irrelevant since 2000.

 

[racerjoe]

I've been irrelevant since 2000.

Maybe you shouldn't have partied like its 1999

 

[vancityluongo]

Ok now do Bruce’s playoff success

 

[Peen]

No one respond with anything political or TP related to this for everyone’s sake - just thought this was hilarious

 

[Vector]

No one respond with anything political or TP related to this for everyone’s sake - just thought this was hilarious

Don't get political! Try me!

 

[Ruthervin]

No one respond with anything political or TP related to this for everyone’s sake - just thought this was hilarious

It's a dumb question posted by someone who likely doesn't understand the NHL very well.

The only way to fix the Canucks' defense, is to get a top pairing defensive-minded RD that can help elevate Hughes to the top pairing while helping minimize Hughes' defensive deficiencies (like a younger version of Chris Tanev would do for instance - or someone of that calibre). Then, by trickle effect, it would move OEL and Myers to a more ideal 2nd pairing where they wouldn't have to take on the toughest match-ups on our team.

THAT is the only thing that would fix our defense, but to acquire such a piece is extremely difficult. You COULD trade for said piece by moving Horvat, Miller, or Podkolzin, but then you'd simply be replacing one hole with another (or in the case of Podkolzin, sacrificing an important future piece).

Moving Pettersson could get you such a piece + extras, but too many people would be angered if we moved Pettersson.

Guys like Ethan Bear or whomever isn't going to fix the problem since players of Bears' calibre wouldn't be able to play top pairing with Hughes (while covering for Hughes' deficiencies). Trading for someone like Artem Zub would be much more expensive than the casual Canucks fan thinks. Lots of radical left Canucks fans and media in Vancouver simply do not understand the sport.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Not sure if the full IMac/Rutherford piece was posted somewhere around here: Rutherford on Canucks' historic string of collapses: 'Too much of giving the game back'

This stands out to me:

“But I'm not totally surprised at what's happening. I've talked about this since I came to Vancouver and what I've seen with his team: We have good players here, but how do you become a winning team? It's about playing the game the right way and playing with good habits.”​

​

In this respect, Rutherford said he saw progress in Columbus, where the Canucks took better care of the puck and didn’t collapse after losing their lead. They dominated late in the third period despite playing their second road game in 24 hours.​

He's still talking about "good habits", and a bunch of guys in their mid-to-late 20s learning how to win.

Yeah the "I'm not surprised" quote really stuck out to me too.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Yeah the "I'm not surprised" quote really stuck out to me too.

“I’m not surprised the team sucks. Did we do anything to rectify that? Nah.”

But to be honest, this really tells me that Rutherford did and still thinks this group is too casual about losing. A near decade of subpar management from ownership down will do that to a group though.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

So Rutherford isn’t surprised the team has blown leads but has done f*** all to address the composition of the team and kept Bruce?

Makes sense…

 

[Cancuks]

It's a dumb question posted by someone who likely doesn't understand the NHL very well.

The only way to fix the Canucks' defense, is to get a top pairing defensive-minded RD that can help elevate Hughes to the top pairing while helping minimize Hughes' defensive deficiencies (like a younger version of Chris Tanev would do for instance - or someone of that calibre). Then, by trickle effect, it would move OEL and Myers to a more ideal 2nd pairing where they wouldn't have to take on the toughest match-ups on our team.

THAT is the only thing that would fix our defense, but to acquire such a piece is extremely difficult. You COULD trade for said piece by moving Horvat, Miller, or Podkolzin, but then you'd simply be replacing one hole with another (or in the case of Podkolzin, sacrificing an important future piece).

Moving Pettersson could get you such a piece + extras, but too many people would be angered if we moved Pettersson.

Guys like Ethan Bear or whomever isn't going to fix the problem since players of Bears' calibre wouldn't be able to play top pairing with Hughes (while covering for Hughes' deficiencies). Trading for someone like Artem Zub would be much more expensive than the casual Canucks fan thinks. Lots of radical left Canucks fans and media in Vancouver simply do not understand the sport.

They'll need to sign Zub or Mayfield or maybe even both in the offseason to have any hope of fixing the defense. That is, if they aren't signed by their current teams. They'll also need to move out a few contracts to do it.

 

[Ruthervin]

They'll need to sign Zub or Mayfield or maybe even both in the offseason to have any hope of fixing the defense. That is, if they aren't signed by their current teams. They'll also need to move out a few contracts to do it.

Agreed.

 

[MarkMM]

Yeah the "I'm not surprised" quote really stuck out to me too.

“I’m not surprised the team sucks. Did we do anything to rectify that? Nah.”

But to be honest, this really tells me that Rutherford did and still thinks this group is too casual about losing. A near decade of subpar management from ownership down will do that to a group though.

So Rutherford isn’t surprised the team has blown leads but has done f*** all to address the composition of the team and kept Bruce?

Makes sense…

The limited time benefit of the doubt I'd give them is that I'd take Rutherford at his word; he knew this team needed to strengthen the defence, get bigger, younger, faster and cheaper but thought it would take 2-3 years. So it's not that he's blind to what needs to be done, or that he's lazy or too passive, but hopefully what we'll see is that he's got the discipline not to panic and knows exactly what move he wants to make and has a plan to pull it off within the 2 year window in front of him.

That would jive with his answer that yeah, he knew this team is fatally flawed, not surprised that they suck but not worried because he fully intends to make the moves. Time is ticking, but not run out yet for me.

 

[Ruthervin]

Jeff Paterson is reporting that Boudreau and the Canucks braintrust might be reaching a 'fork in the road'.

Boudreau is an old-school coach who eschews new fangled analytics for good old fashioned motivation and fiddling with playing time. Whilst the Canucks head office types are harping on things like 'zone exits' and possession stats.

The first salvo was fired by Rutherford in the off-season, who said the Canucks might be one of the worst teams in the league in terms of 'zone exits'. And Boudreau fired back after the opening three-game losing streak, saying the team was 'mentally weak'. Ouch!

And in the last game the coach inexplicably benched Burroughs and Garland. While all the analytics numbers confirm that in terms of zone possession guys like Stillman, Aman and Joshua are getting buried alive. And then there's the plight of Rathbone. He needs to play or head back to the farm.

Unless the Canucks pull out of this nosedive in a hurry--the next change might be behind the bench. There's an underlying reason why they signed Colliton imo.

If this truly is the case then I'm *clearly* on the side of Boudreau. Boudreau came in here and turned this team from water into wine last season. Boudreau implemented a great system in which we nullified our limitations on defense (right side defense), kept GA's low, started scoring a more, and went 34-16-10 over our last 60 last season. BB would have won the Jack Adams (or have come close) if we had qualified for the playoffs.

Rutherford and Alvin then criticized BB for not getting his team to be better on controlled zone exits while mistakingly assuming that we have the horses to play that style. So BB acquiesces to Rutherford/Alvin's demands and tries to make adjustments (without having the horses on the back-end to play that style) and we now see what has happened these last 4 games.

tl;dr = Boudreau isn't at fault. He was a god-send to us last year. This is purely on Rutherford and Alvin.

 

[credulous]

They'll need to sign Zub or Mayfield or maybe even both in the offseason to have any hope of fixing the defense. That is, if they aren't signed by their current teams. They'll also need to move out a few contracts to do it.

this is the same kind of magical thinking that sunk the team under benning over and over. this team is way more than one player away

 

[Cancuks]

this is the same kind of magical thinking that sunk the team under benning over and over. this team is way more than one player away

It's the only way because they aren't willing to do a proper rebuild.

 

[LordBacon]

Gotta love how pretty much all the teams that took the rebuild route are doing better than us right now.
Horrible structure, no prospects to show for. Current roster has no morale and leadership.
Spend near the cap, traded away picks.
It's just a formula for hockey hell. Way to go.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Boeser and JT Miller are now 14.6 mil of unmoveable contracts. Brock Boeser was not tracking at all well

Pearson, OEL, Myers, Poolman

You now have Hughes tanking his value.

So much cap tied on total shit right now. 2020-2021 f***ed us for years. 2022 wasnt much better.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

They obviously did not like “unfinished business.” Once they get tired of “our pursuit”, here is the motto they should have gone with:

 

[gringo]

What an epic miscalculation. Fire team woke into the sun. Get some actual hockey minds in here. What. The. f***. Am. I. Watching?

 

[Melvin]

I'm not gonna lie, this is just the funniest shit to me.

I mean I haven't changed my mind on where I think this team will finish, and any team can go on an 0-3-2 road-trip at any point of the season (it's only when it happens at the start of the season do people make a big deal out of it.)

But it's still funny as shit. Months and months of "Bruce there it is" and hearing about how much better they will be because of the "bruce bump" and blah blah blah, only for them to shit the bed as hard as they shit it to start last season. Hilarious.

The team isn't this bad, but it's still not very good, and it's like 90% Benning's fault still. People actually thought we could unf*** ourselves from the mess he made in one off-season with a flat cap? It would have taken some actual heroics, and these guys are just, like, average it seems.

 

[Cancuks]

I'm not gonna lie, this is just the funniest shit to me.

I mean I haven't changed my mind on where I think this team will finish, and any team can go on an 0-3-2 road-trip at any point of the season (it's only when it happens at the start of the season do people make a big deal out of it.)

But it's still funny as shit. Months and months of "Bruce there it is" and hearing about how much better they will be because of the "bruce bump" and blah blah blah, only for them to shit the bed as hard as they shit it to start last season. Hilarious.

The team isn't this bad, but it's still not very good, and it's like 90% Benning's fault still. People actually thought we could unf*** ourselves from the mess he made in one off-season with a flat cap? It would have taken some actual heroics, and these guys are just, like, average it seems.

They literally could have done nothing this offseason and we'd be better off. Instead they handed a boat anchor of a contract to Miller, re-upped a declining Boeser, threw away a 2nd rounder to move Dickinson when they could have just bought him out, and spent more money on luxury like Mikheyev when they should have used that on a defenseman. It's infuriating because guaranteed they thought the real Canucks were the team that went on a run under Boudreau and they thought they could just play offense like the 80s Oilers and not worry about any defense. We all knew this would happen. But professional hockey minds who have won Cups couldn't see it.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

I'm not gonna lie, this is just the funniest shit to me.

I mean I haven't changed my mind on where I think this team will finish, and any team can go on an 0-3-2 road-trip at any point of the season (it's only when it happens at the start of the season do people make a big deal out of it.)

But it's still funny as shit. Months and months of "Bruce there it is" and hearing about how much better they will be because of the "bruce bump" and blah blah blah, only for them to shit the bed as hard as they shit it to start last season. Hilarious.

The team isn't this bad, but it's still not very good, and it's like 90% Benning's fault still. People actually thought we could unf*** ourselves from the mess he made in one off-season with a flat cap? It would have taken some actual heroics, and these guys are just, like, average it seems.

For sure.

But just taking Boeser’s QO and waiting to sign Miller to an extension, would have put this team in a better position if both of those players can’t get their shit together.