Management Discussion | Pre-Season Approaching

[Tomatoes11]

Toronto and Colorado . You are living in delusional land or your IQ is low or both.

Plus there numerous teams that have taken a step back recently that I can bring up if you wish. Of course you will just ignore them somehow to fit your pathetic narrative.

Lol Colorado traded a near ppg player (Recently hit it ) game player in Duchene and were last in the league. Lol

I don’t think you can be last in league while trying although we came close that very same year. They were tanking for sure.

And Lou lam actually admitted it in an interview before he was an islander.

Babcock too apparently lol

Babcock Admits Maple Leafs Tanked In Order to Draft Auston Matthews

Did Mike Babcock just admit the Toronto Maple Leafs intentionally lost games in order to finish last place and draft Auston Matthews?

nhltradetalk.com

 

[logan5]

oel and myers are a pretty mediocre second pairing even ignoring their contracts. with their contracts taken into account they're easily the worst pairing in the league

you can maybe shelter oel on the third pairing and get some (on ice) value out of him as a secondary option when hughes needs a rest but myers is just a pure waste of space. he's one of the worst dmen in the league at holding the blue line and he gets abused by forecheckers. people think he's okay because he gets his stick in passing lanes and throws some nasty hits but he's the worst dman on the team apart from poolman and maybe stillman

What? I think you are completely missing the boat on what OEL brings. He is a very good defenseman.

 

[Vector]

Lol Colorado traded a near ppg player (Recently hit it ) game player in Duchene and were last in the league. Lol

I don’t think you can be last in league while trying although we came close that very same year. They were tanking for sure.

And Lou lam actually admitted it in an interview before he was an islander.

Babcock too apparently lol

Babcock Admits Maple Leafs Tanked In Order to Draft Auston Matthews

Did Mike Babcock just admit the Toronto Maple Leafs intentionally lost games in order to finish last place and draft Auston Matthews?

nhltradetalk.com

How many accounts are you running? Seems strange to quote yourself and argue with yourself.

 

[rypper]

It's ludicrous to think that any ownership group would sign off on it.
It's ludicrous to think we'd actually be able to out-tank the likes of Montreal.
It's ludicrous to think that we just magically bounce back from that and are suddenly good again like nothing ever happened, and that our core players wouldn't be affected by this or would want to stay.

It's also completely ludicrous to think a team would trade 3 of their top six players in one off season, including 2 centers.

 

[Tomatoes11]

I just mentioned taking a year to reset by trading all of our upcoming free agents. I didn’t specifically mention bedard btw. MS just lacked reading comprehension and tried to twist it like I did. But there were real world examples of teams going for number 1 so I brought them up. Lol

i don't even completely disagree with your thesis but the 2015 leafs were f***ing dogshit lmao and colorado wasnt even tanking

i think in a vacuum you can probably get 1/2 players on board for a few down years, but i don't think it would work in this case where player morale has already been extremely low for a while. and there's absolutely no chance we'd catch any of arz/chi/mon/sj.

How many accounts are you running? Seems strange to quote yourself and argue with yourself.

That reply was for Joseph but apparently the quote didn’t go through.

 

[Tomatoes11]

It's also completely ludicrous to think a team would trade 3 of their top six players in one off season, including 2 centers.

Miller isn’t really a Center but it looks like we might be keeping two wingers over our Center if bo gets moved.

 

[MS]

Toronto and Colorado . You are living in delusional land or your IQ is low or both.

Plus there numerous teams that have taken a step back recently that I can bring up if you wish. Of course you will just ignore them somehow to fit your pathetic narrative.

Toronto blew it up in 2015 after finishing with 68 points on a team with basically zero talent outside of Phil Kessel.

Colorado blew it up circa 2010 when Joe Sakic retired and their entire Cup core had aged out and there was absolutely nothing left there. They had a weird blip in 2013-14 when their core was really young but quickly regressed.

Neither of these teams were in a 'better situation' than this Canuck team is right now.

You appear to have neither a grasp of hockey history nor an ounce of rational thinking.

If you went to any of the 32 owners in the NHL and said 'Hey, we have this team that just put up a 106-point pace over the last 60 games of last season and virtually all of our core players are in their early-mid 20s, but we need fix our cap situation a bit and find a quality RD. What I propose is that we blow up the team and try to finish last overall for Bedard, which will cost you $millions and only has about a 5% chance of working, and will probably further alienate those core players we retain' literally every single one of those owners would fire you on the spot.

It's absolute nonsense from someone who doesn't understand the sport, doesn't understand people, and just doesn't understand how things work. Keep playing video games.

Lol Colorado traded a near ppg player (Recently hit it ) game player in Duchene and were last in the league. Lol

I don’t think you can be last in league while trying although we came close that very same year. They were tanking for sure.

And Lou lam actually admitted it in an interview before he was an islander.

Babcock too apparently lol

Babcock Admits Maple Leafs Tanked In Order to Draft Auston Matthews

Did Mike Babcock just admit the Toronto Maple Leafs intentionally lost games in order to finish last place and draft Auston Matthews?

nhltradetalk.com

Colorado traded Duchene in the middle of a season where they made the playoffs. They didn't trade him as part of a tank. Duchene was there for their entire last-place season.

 

[mossey3535]

If Demko needs some time to round into shape considering the issues with injury on defence, we could be headed for the traditional nose-dive at the beginning of the season.

IMO this is Thatcher's first year where he's going to be fully scouted. Takes about a season for this to happen when the guy first claims the clear #1 spot. This is why lots of guys in the past have been good for their first season and then tanked.

I believe Demko has another level he can still reach, especially in terms of consistency and learning how to play #1 and then play #1 in the playofffs, and finally #1 deep in the playoffs. I feel confident he will reach that level eventually.

But I also wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't hold us in as well as he did last year. I seem to remember we were relatively healthy compared to past seasons. We'll also see if Spencer Martin can keep up his game from last year. I think he can and that he was the best and cheapest backup option. But it's tough to play in the NHL regularly.

 

[MS]

It's also completely ludicrous to think a team would trade 3 of their top six players in one off season, including 2 centers.

It's the thought process of a 10 year old playing EA Sports. OMG I WANTZ BEDARD!

 

[Ruthervin]

I don’t know if you are a homer, lack an objective bone in your body, or just daft or worse but it’s not unrealistic at all. In fact, plenty of teams in much better situations than our own have done it recently and will do so in the future.


I think you should see how we do this season when we don’t have to play catch up before you declare anything. I think you and a lot of folks are going to be unpleasantly surprised after this upcoming season.

Maybe, but sadly enough, I think it's wishful thinking on your part due to your hatred of Benning and the team that Benning built (for the most part). If I'm off base here I apologize, but it's just how it's coming across to me.

 

[Ruthervin]

oel and myers are a pretty mediocre second pairing even ignoring their contracts. with their contracts taken into account they're easily the worst pairing in the league

you can maybe shelter oel on the third pairing and get some (on ice) value out of him as a secondary option when hughes needs a rest but myers is just a pure waste of space. he's one of the worst dmen in the league at holding the blue line and he gets abused by forecheckers. people think he's okay because he gets his stick in passing lanes and throws some nasty hits but he's the worst dman on the team apart from poolman and maybe stillman

You don't know any of this since OEL and Myers were deployed as our top pairing last season (and for awhile there, having some of the best 5 on 5 stats in the league). We don't know how they would perform as a 2nd pairing tandem. Given both players' histories however, I think they would do just fine as a 2nd pairing.

 

[Ruthervin]

It's the thought process of a 10 year old playing EA Sports. OMG I WANTZ BEDARD!

You nailed it. I also think it's a cowardice mindset (i.e. we're not going to win the cup anyways, and I don't want to see my fragile heart get broken, so we should BLOW IT UP so we can live in this fantasy world where we accumulate a bunch 4.5 green star prospects on ELC's and become a dynasty!).

The reality of the NHL is that most teams' cores have to go through some growing pains before taking the next step. Teams like Tampa, Colorado, St. Louis, Washington, Pittsburgh, Chicago, LA, and Boston are of no exception.

There is absolutely a value in making the playoffs, gaining some playoff experience, losing, and growing from it. In 2015 for instance, the Canucks got spanked by the Flames but Horvat clearly elevated his game during that series. In 2020, we had no business being competitive with Vegas and yet we saw Demko become a superstar before our very eyes.

 

[MS]

What a joke of a poster you have become. When Colorado was last place it was well after 2010. It was the Pettersen draft where they had Nate mackinnon, landeskog , etc and after they traded duchene. I knew you would try to twist it to 2010 to fit your lame narrative lol. Colorado was in much better situation than we are when they finished last full stop.

And I just showed a link where the head coach of the leafs admitted to tanking.

Not to mention the wild that were 1st in their division last year or close to it but chose to buy out parise and suter and trade fiala for prospects and picks.

And the islanders where they traded Nick Leddy and Devon Toews, two of their best defenceman before or during their two ecf runs.

I really feel sorry you now. I don’t get how someone can be this special.

Holy shit is your reading comprehension poor.

'The Leafs coach admitted they were tanking!' So what? Nobody is debating that they were tanking. Of course they were tanking. What you argued was that they tanked when they were in a better position to compete than this Vancouver team, which is blatantly obviously incorrect. They were 24 points worse in the standings with a far worse roster build and core age.

Colorado had a 7 year bottom-out from 2010-17 with one bizarre outlier year in the middle. The Pettersson draft was before they traded Duchene - yet again, you're spewing insults but can't even get simple facts correct.

What do the Islanders have to do with anything? They traded Toews because of cap/expansion draft concerns. That has nothing to do with anything being discussed here. Obviously teams sometimes move on from good players while still trying to compete. Same with the Wild trading Fiala - that was a move purely determined by the salary cap. They aren't tanking or trying for Bedard and will be expecting to be in the playoffs next year.

I don't even think you know what you're arguing. It's a disjointed mess.

 

[Ruthervin]

Toronto and Colorado . You are living in delusional land or your IQ is low or both.

Plus there are numerous teams in much better shape than us that have taken a step back recently that I can bring up if you wish. Of course you will just ignore them somehow to fit your pathetic narrative.

In 2017, Colorado had missed the playoffs 7 of 9 seasons (similar to us right now). They lost in the first round in 2018 before losing three straight times in the 2nd round prior to their cup victory. The Leafs still haven't won a single playoff round since 2004.

Two teams that started their rebuilds after us and are now ahead of us (NYR and LA) are big markets that can attract UFA's like bees to honey. Kakko and Lafrenniere haven't done that much for the Rangers. It's guys like Panarin who have made the world's difference.

 

[MS]

You do know that this doesn’t help your no one in a better situation than us tanked for first overall baseless argument right? Lol

And you just admitted it was tank.

JESUS. I knew you were worse than daft but I didn’t know you were this you know… lol

Again : teams trade players all the time for all kinds of reasons. It doesn't mean they're tanking. I don't know why this is so hard to grasp.

Colorado wasn't trying to get 1st overall when they traded Duchene. They were in the middle of their breakout season coming out of a tank but made a long-term strategic decision.

Neither Colorado nor Toronto - nor any other team - blew it up and tried for #1 overall when they were a 90+ point team with most of their core in their early-mid 20s. You asserted something that was completely wrong and rather than having the awareness to admit it you're just resorting to childish insults.

 

[Bubbles]

You asserted something that was completely wrong and rather than having the awareness to admit it you're just resorting to childish insults.

It's the thought process of a 10 year old playing EA Sports. OMG I WANTZ BEDARD!

Hmm.

 

[credulous]

You don't know any of this since OEL and Myers were deployed as our top pairing last season (and for awhile there, having some of the best 5 on 5 stats in the league). We don't know how they would perform as a 2nd pairing tandem. Given both players' histories however, I think they would do just fine as a 2nd pairing.

i'm going off actually watching them play. not xg+ or whatever. oel to me is a player who struggles to defend the rush, struggles to win clearances against the forecheck and struggles to skate the puck up ice. he's decent at making a long pass and he has some offensive skills but not enough to make up for his zone defense. he's also mediocre on the penalty kill. myers has all the same problems as myers except he can't make a pass either

oel is mostly regarded as a good defender because his stickwork is good and he skates well. neither of these are all that effective at actually preventing chances though. i have no idea why anyone thinks myers is decent. he's plainly awful

what i saw last year was two struggling defenders who were regularly bailed out by their goalie

 

[Ruthervin]

i'm going off actually watching them play. not xg+ or whatever. oel to me is a player who struggles to defend the rush, struggles to win clearances against the forecheck and struggles to skate the puck up ice. he's decent at making a long pass and he has some offensive skills but not enough to make up for his zone defense. he's also mediocre on the penalty kill. myers has all the same problems as myers except he can't make a pass either

oel is mostly regarded as a good defender because his stickwork is good and he skates well. neither of these are all that effective at actually preventing chances though. i have no idea why anyone thinks myers is decent. he's plainly awful

what i saw last year was two struggling defenders who were regularly bailed out by their goalie

 

[credulous]

that's from like november

 

[VanillaCoke]

that's from like november

Even if it wasn't it doesn't match reality of watching them so you know there's a flaw somewhere.

Also one cursory glance at that list and it obvious for multiple reasons its not worth the time it took post it.

 

[andora]

Toronto and Colorado . You are living in delusional land or your IQ is low or both.

Plus there are numerous teams in much better shape than us that have taken a step back recently that I can bring up if you wish. Of course you will just ignore them somehow to fit your pathetic narrative.

I am curious can you name some more

You don't know any of this since OEL and Myers were deployed as our top pairing last season (and for awhile there, having some of the best 5 on 5 stats in the league). We don't know how they would perform as a 2nd pairing tandem. Given both players' histories however, I think they would do just fine as a 2nd pairing.

They were average at best across the board when looking at the season. There is a lot of noise in the numbers because of demkos performance - but a goalies save percentage doesnt make Xga go down.. they were ok.

One storyline that i like is that our dmen improve once playing with OEL - and this is like improving from below average to average.. but it is there regardless

OEL needs someone that can skate and isnt a doofus to make a good pairing .. outside of hughes we dont really have that. MAYBE dermott if he keeps it simple.. oel/dermott

 

[MarkMM]

My worry is that OEL / Myers "top shutdown pairing" is fluffed up by Demko.

 

[Diamonddog01]

i'm going off actually watching them play. not xg+ or whatever. oel to me is a player who struggles to defend the rush, struggles to win clearances against the forecheck and struggles to skate the puck up ice. he's decent at making a long pass and he has some offensive skills but not enough to make up for his zone defense. he's also mediocre on the penalty kill. myers has all the same problems as myers except he can't make a pass either

oel is mostly regarded as a good defender because his stickwork is good and he skates well. neither of these are all that effective at actually preventing chances though. i have no idea why anyone thinks myers is decent. he's plainly awful

what i saw last year was two struggling defenders who were regularly bailed out by their goalie

You can't make definitive statements based on the eye-test lol. OEL definitely struggles in regards to defending the rush but that one issue doesn't erase the things he does well. I didn't see the issues regarding forechecking and zone exits you're claiming and the stats don't really back that up either. The other thing about OEL is that he arguably helped turn Myers into a passable top 4 defenceman last season which you're completely ignoring and omitting here. He's not perfect and he's absolutely overpaid but stating that the player who was tasked with playing the most difficult minutes "might be passable in a sheltered 3rd pairing role" is hyperbolic nonsense.

 

[4Twenty]

You can't make definitive statements based on the "eye-test" lol. OEL definitely struggles in regards to defending the rush but that one issue doesn't erase the things he does well. I didn't see the issues regarding forechecking and zone exits you're claiming and the stats don't really back that up either. The other thing about OEL is that he arguably helped turn Myers into a passable top 4 defenceman last season which you're completely ignoring and omitting here. He's not perfect and he's absolutely overpaid but stating that the player who was tasked with playing the most difficult minutes "might be passable in a sheltered 3rd pairing role" is hyperbolic nonsense.

Hyperbolic nonsense eh. Great respectful response.


What do you make of the nearly all time worst PK numbers with this pair as the go-to?


Imo both are driven by luck….good and bad.


Demko was stopping picks at evens and wasn’t on the PK.



———

The thought process on trading 3 of the teams top 6 players is not ludicrous.

One was RFA.

Two are upcoming UFA’s.

How come nobody ever pulls out the ludicrous card for folks referring to Garland as untouchable? That’s f***ing ludicrous!!!

 

[JT Milker]

I've come to operate under the assumption that posts by @Ruthervin are intended to be pure sarcasm. I could be wrong, but they just make more sense that way.

It’s Bovinder Horvatjee or whatever their name was several years ago.