Management Discussion | Pre-Season Approaching

[rypper]

Keeping Poolman on the roster is definitely one of those litmus test moments for this new regime. It's a test that they egregiously failed. Just makes it abundantly clear that they're not willing to break a few eggs to make an omelette.


Just demonstrated that they're not willing to make the hard calls to make the team better, if that means waiving or hurting the feelings of a vested veteran on a significant contract.

Bringing in a $1.3M depth defenceman on top of that, when they have very cheap guys in house who performed well through the preseason just shows a lack of awareness when it comes to finding small efficiencies with the salary cap. When you get depth guys who can play on those minimal sort of salaries, you have to leverage that to balance out the spending you're doing at the top of the roster. They failed to identify those sort of areas of potential savings on defence. They seemed to identify Aman as a point of leverage up front, and hopefully he's good enough...but the defence corps was really where they had a more solid opportunity to make some savings. But instead, they kept Poolman on the roster, and spent a premium pick to move a useful player in Dickinson for marginal cap relief and an expensive depth defenceman they didn't need.

It's just really not confidence inspiring.

I think if Myers and Dermott were healthy, they might have made a different call on Poolman.

 

[Vector]

Posted this in the fantasy thread but the Canucks are the only team to fully maximize their LTIR space.

 

[MS]

Keeping Poolman on the roster is definitely one of those litmus test moments for this new regime. It's a test that they egregiously failed. Just makes it abundantly clear that they're not willing to break a few eggs to make an omelette.


Just demonstrated that they're not willing to make the hard calls to make the team better, if that means waiving or hurting the feelings of a vested veteran on a significant contract.

Bringing in a $1.3M depth defenceman on top of that, when they have very cheap guys in house who performed well through the preseason just shows a lack of awareness when it comes to finding small efficiencies with the salary cap. When you get depth guys who can play on those minimal sort of salaries, you have to leverage that to balance out the spending you're doing at the top of the roster. They failed to identify those sort of areas of potential savings on defence. They seemed to identify Aman as a point of leverage up front, and hopefully he's good enough...but the defence corps was really where they had a more solid opportunity to make some savings. But instead, they kept Poolman on the roster, and spent a premium pick to move a useful player in Dickinson for marginal cap relief and an expensive depth defenceman they didn't need.

It's just really not confidence inspiring.

The problem is that Tyler Myers and Travis Dermott got hurt.

With them out if you jettison Poolman to Abbotsford/cap dump him out of here, our RD depth for the first couple weeks of the season is Schenn-Burroughs-Juulsen.

I don't think much of Poolman, but he's substantially better than the likes of Juulsen and can sort of adequately low-event his way through 15 minutes/game.

If they had all of Myers/Schenn/Burroughs available plus the Hughes RD option and still kept Poolman, my opinion would be a bit more harsh.

And they did move Dickinson, so they did bite the bullet on the other problem mid-level contract.

 

[credulous]

Posted this in the fantasy thread but the Canucks are the only team to fully maximize their LTIR space.

nice to see this because i've been critical of their attention to detail. this explains the klim over woo 'paper' roster spot. i wish the SOIR rules were better documented because i assumed that di giuseppe would cost $0

kudos to management. good work

 

[MS]

Posted this in the fantasy thread but the Canucks are the only team to fully maximize their LTIR space.

Someone was complaining before that other teams were being more creative than us, but it looks like Castonguay etc. did their homework to get us over the line here.

 

[Vector]

Someone was complaining before that other teams were being more creative than us, but it looks like Castonguay etc. did their homework to get us over the line here.

Feels good to have a management team that didn’t call the NHL head office to help sort it out.

 

[TruGr1t]

Feels good to have a management team that didn’t call the NHL head office to help sort it out.

The bar is so incredibly low around here, my God.

 

[credulous]

Someone was complaining before that other teams were being more creative than us, but it looks like Castonguay etc. did their homework to get us over the line here.

i give them full credit for this

part of the reason this is a litmus test for me is because it should take nothing more than time and effort to maximize your LTIR/opening roster and if a management group can't do it/doesn't do it it probably means they are being lazy elsewhere also

happy to see that this group passed this test

 

[Peen]

I know nothing about how any of this maximizing LTI bullshit works but assuming this is a relatively big early win for Castonguay.

 

[Vector]

The bar is so incredibly low around here, my God.

I’ll celebrate the small wins and have a bit of fun when I can.

 

[mriswith]

The bar is so incredibly low around here, my God.

I miss the days when we were livid with coaching and management over which 4th line grinder deserved to be on the 4th line over the other 4th line grinder (btw Oreskovich>Volpatti)

 

[rypper]

I miss the days when we were livid with coaching and management over which 4th line grinder deserved to be on the 4th line over the other 4th line grinder (btw Oreskovich>Volpatti)

Baby steps. We'll get back there.

First step is a management team that doesn't need it's hand held to set a season opening roster.

 

[biturbo19]

I think if Myers and Dermott were healthy, they might have made a different call on Poolman.

It's possible. But because of the circumstances, we're sort of left speculating at what they might have done, which is challenging from an honest observation perspective. It's possible that the Poolman decision is related to salary cap math numbers crunching. But it's impossible to really read intent into it, when all we have is the end result, of Poolman on the roster. We don't really have enough information about this situation or this regime to give them the benefit of the doubt in assuming that it's purely an injury-inspired decision.

The problem is that Tyler Myers and Travis Dermott got hurt.

With them out if you jettison Poolman to Abbotsford/cap dump him out of here, our RD depth for the first couple weeks of the season is Schenn-Burroughs-Juulsen.

I don't think much of Poolman, but he's substantially better than the likes of Juulsen and can sort of adequately low-event his way through 15 minutes/game.

If they had all of Myers/Schenn/Burroughs available plus the Hughes RD option and still kept Poolman, my opinion would be a bit more harsh.

And they did move Dickinson, so they did bite the bullet on the other problem mid-level contract.

There's obviously some complicated salary cap juggling going on here to make it all work with all of the season-opening injuries we have to contend with, in an already extremely tight cap situation. But i'm finding it really hard to attribute this decision purely to an "opening day cap manipulation" scenario, when it's felt through the entire preseason like they were desperate to make Poolman work as a roster player. He's constantly been put in the most "fail-proof" situations possible, and still managed to basically fail. I genuinely don't know if he's capable of "adequate low-eventing his way through 15 minutes/game." He's just not an NHL caliber player at this point.

Maybe he eventually starts to round back into that form as he gets comfortable and puts some more minutes under his feet, because he has been that sort of player before. But with all the missed time and health issues, he hasn't looked at all like even that "low event depth defenceman" through this preseason. He's been very blatantly awful. Not "low event", but actually high "bad event" sort of play for the most part.


The Dickinson trade is really just more fuel on the fire for me, in evaluating how this regime are managing things so far. They "bit the bullet" on the guy who was actually capable of playing those sort of "low event depth minutes". Spending a premium pick to bail out of obvious cap problems by moving the overpaid but still competent player. And brought in a $1.3M player where they really didn't need one in exchange. I just don't really see what Stillman brings to this roster that is worth juggling the cap situation to make it work.


It's one thing to say they stepped up and "paid the price" to fix their cap issues. It's another thing to assess whether they did that in a way that makes sense given the roster pieces and depth in the organization. I'm not really inspired by what they chose to do.

I also really do not get the impression that Poolman is going to be waived at any point this season. Even after the opening day cap conundrum is resolved and in the rearview mirror. That's the crux of my issue with this solution. It reads like they're content to have Poolman on the roster all year.

 

[credulous]

i don't think they are content to have poolman on the roster. i don't think they really have any choice other than to make it work with him though

he's not really buryable (1.375 mil cap hit if you do), buyoutable (depends on when you do it but it's ugly no matter what) or tradeable (not without attaching a premium asset)

given that you may as well try to rehab him into a useful depth piece. if it works out great. if it fails no real harm done. he only blocked luke schenn or kyle burroughs a few minutes a game

 

[MS]

It's possible. But because of the circumstances, we're sort of left speculating at what they might have done, which is challenging from an honest observation perspective. It's possible that the Poolman decision is related to salary cap math numbers crunching. But it's impossible to really read intent into it, when all we have is the end result, of Poolman on the roster. We don't really have enough information about this situation or this regime to give them the benefit of the doubt in assuming that it's purely an injury-inspired decision.



There's obviously some complicated salary cap juggling going on here to make it all work with all of the season-opening injuries we have to contend with, in an already extremely tight cap situation. But i'm finding it really hard to attribute this decision purely to an "opening day cap manipulation" scenario, when it's felt through the entire preseason like they were desperate to make Poolman work as a roster player. He's constantly been put in the most "fail-proof" situations possible, and still managed to basically fail. I genuinely don't know if he's capable of "adequate low-eventing his way through 15 minutes/game." He's just not an NHL caliber player at this point.

Maybe he eventually starts to round back into that form as he gets comfortable and puts some more minutes under his feet, because he has been that sort of player before. But with all the missed time and health issues, he hasn't looked at all like even that "low event depth defenceman" through this preseason. He's been very blatantly awful. Not "low event", but actually high "bad event" sort of play for the most part.


The Dickinson trade is really just more fuel on the fire for me, in evaluating how this regime are managing things so far. They "bit the bullet" on the guy who was actually capable of playing those sort of "low event depth minutes". Spending a premium pick to bail out of obvious cap problems by moving the overpaid but still competent player. And brought in a $1.3M player where they really didn't need one in exchange. I just don't really see what Stillman brings to this roster that is worth juggling the cap situation to make it work.


It's one thing to say they stepped up and "paid the price" to fix their cap issues. It's another thing to assess whether they did that in a way that makes sense given the roster pieces and depth in the organization. I'm not really inspired by what they chose to do.

I also really do not get the impression that Poolman is going to be waived at any point this season. Even after the opening day cap conundrum is resolved and in the rearview mirror. That's the crux of my issue with this solution. It reads like they're content to have Poolman on the roster all year.

I get what you’re saying but I’m not going to over-criticize them for keeping their 3rd best RD on the roster. And we simply don’t know what they would have done if he was their 5th choice RD with everyone healthy.

It will be very interesting to see what happens when Myers and Dermott get back.

 

[Tomatoes11]

I wouldn’t call us champs for using all of our LTIR. I would call us chumps for trading a most likely high 2nd in order to just squeeze by.

 

[biturbo19]

I get what you’re saying but I’m not going to over-criticize them for keeping their 3rd best RD on the roster. And we simply don’t know what they would have done if he was their 5th choice RD with everyone healthy.

It will be very interesting to see what happens when Myers and Dermott get back.

That's fair enough. It's probably a little bit harsh to be judging and nitpicking on this, given the situation. But there's not really anything else to go on, so it is what it is. Right now, it looks bad to me. If, when Myers and Dermott are healthy and back in the lineup, they do end up waiving Poolman, i'll happily rejoice and give credit where it's due. But at the moment, that doesn't look like the direction they're heading.

 

[biturbo19]

i don't think they are content to have poolman on the roster. i don't think they really have any choice other than to make it work with him though

he's not really buryable (1.375 mil cap hit if you do), buyoutable (depends on when you do it but it's ugly no matter what) or tradeable (not without attaching a premium asset)

given that you may as well try to rehab him into a useful depth piece. if it works out great. if it fails no real harm done. he only blocked luke schenn or kyle burroughs a few minutes a game

I mean, this is kind of my issue with the whole Poolman thing. No, he's not a good player, he's not really comfortably "buryable". But this idea of trying to "rehab him into a useful depth piece" is challenging. Like at his absolute best, at his peak, that's more or less what he was. But he's clearly fallen off from there.

Can he get back to that? Or are you really just pissing away a roster spot and a lot of cap dollars trying to "rehabilitate" an extremely limited player? It's obviously driven by the contract he has. No other player who bombed the preseason the way he did would've been given a roster spot. Not even with the injuries to the other roster defencemen.


That to me, is where the concern is with the way this regime are managing things so far.

Full marks for sifting through the situation and trying to figure out how to maximize it to give themselves the most flexibility down the road. But in all of that, it still feels like Poolman on the roster was basically a "default" automatic consideration. His presence on the NHL roster was taken as a set point in the calculations. Not making the hard call to waive him and bury a bunch of money in the AHL.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I wouldn’t call us champs for using all of our LTIR. I would call us chumps for trading a most likely high 2nd in order to just squeeze by.

The bar is pathetically low and the credit is being handed out like cake to a fat kid

 

[credulous]

I mean, this is kind of my issue with the whole Poolman thing. No, he's not a good player, he's not really comfortably "buryable". But this idea of trying to "rehab him into a useful depth piece" is challenging. Like at his absolute best, at his peak, that's more or less what he was. But he's clearly fallen off from there.

Can he get back to that? Or are you really just pissing away a roster spot and a lot of cap dollars trying to "rehabilitate" an extremely limited player? It's obviously driven by the contract he has. No other player who bombed the preseason the way he did would've been given a roster spot. Not even with the injuries to the other roster defencemen.

what's the alternative? play juulsen? keeper?

poolman is bad but he's still in the top 3 (healthy) right handed defenders this team has right now

 

[biturbo19]

what's the alternative? play juulsen? keeper?

poolman is bad but he's still in the top 3 (healthy) right handed defenders this team has right now

Is that even really true though? Like, the fact that it's even arguably true in the first place, is a massive failing of this regime so far. That they could look at such a glaring organization deficiency and somehow not manage to find a RHD somewhere who is at least better than Poolman. Not asking for the moon there, with a real "top pairing" solution at RHD. But just...something would have gone a long ways in building some trust in this front office.


Like i'm genuinely not convinced that Tucker Poolman is one of the 3 best RHD this team has to offer. If fully healthy and up to speed, yeah, he might be that. But through the preseason, he was legitimately awful. Just absolutely brutal. Behind the play and not nearly talented enough to make up for it or recover. I think there are a few LHD in the organization who would be much better bets as a bottom-pairing RD playing on their off side, over Poolman the way he looked through the preseason. Heck, even Juulsen might be a better option at this point...and that's a scary thought.

If you pretended that Poolman didn't have the contract he does, i honestly do not see a single way he makes it through camp the way he played and comes out the other end on the NHL roster. He's a bad fringe player, who has had serious injury problems subtracting from the few positive things he actually can contribute.

 

[credulous]

Is that even really true though? Like, the fact that it's even arguably true in the first place, is a massive failing of this regime so far. That they could look at such a glaring organization deficiency and somehow not manage to find a RHD somewhere who is at least better than Poolman. Not asking for the moon there, with a real "top pairing" solution at RHD. But just...something would have gone a long ways in building some trust in this front office.

i mean you're right. he's very bad. they should have figured out a way to claim phillipe myers or kovacevic or traded for someone who at least has more upside than poolman. just waiving him doesn't do that though

if dermott gets healthy and outplays him and he still isn't waived then you'll be right to be upset

 

[MS]

Is that even really true though? Like, the fact that it's even arguably true in the first place, is a massive failing of this regime so far. That they could look at such a glaring organization deficiency and somehow not manage to find a RHD somewhere who is at least better than Poolman. Not asking for the moon there, with a real "top pairing" solution at RHD. But just...something would have gone a long ways in building some trust in this front office.


Like i'm genuinely not convinced that Tucker Poolman is one of the 3 best RHD this team has to offer. If fully healthy and up to speed, yeah, he might be that. But through the preseason, he was legitimately awful. Just absolutely brutal. Behind the play and not nearly talented enough to make up for it or recover. I think there are a few LHD in the organization who would be much better bets as a bottom-pairing RD playing on their off side, over Poolman the way he looked through the preseason. Heck, even Juulsen might be a better option at this point...and that's a scary thought.

If you pretended that Poolman didn't have the contract he does, i honestly do not see a single way he makes it through camp the way he played and comes out the other end on the NHL roster. He's a bad fringe player, who has had serious injury problems subtracting from the few positive things he actually can contribute.

But again, he’s normally be the 5th best but Myers and Dermott (LH but plays both sides pretty equally) are hurt.

Of the players we have available, he’s the 3rd best. Past him you have Juulsen, Keeper, Woo who are all nothing even close to NHL players.

 

[Tomatoes11]

The bar is pathetically low and the credit is being handed out like cake to a fat kid

Yup, people are talking like this and this player are necessary but nothing is really necessary until we fix our farm, start accumulating some extra drafts picks or at least use our own instead of trading them, and fix the cap situation. Until then, nothing is really necessary especially not OEL.

I mean what’s the worse that can happen? We can have a top 10 pick, preserve all of our picks, have tons of cap instead of 9th in the west and pick 15-17 again without all of our 2nds and no cap space? The former sounds better to me by a country mile.

 

[RutherPlan]

Canucks are In a good position next season with Ferland and rhe dead cap coming off the books.