Management Discussion | Pre-Season Approaching

[MS]

Nevermind bringing in a coach that contradicts eichel as the top player

Seeing how Eichel and Cassidy get on and whether Eichel can actually adapt to playing a winning style in a winning team will be one of the most interesting storylines to watch in the NHL this year.

What I saw from him last year was an anchor who was zigging while the rest of Vegas was zagging.

 

[andora]

Seeing how Eichel and Cassidy get on and whether Eichel can actually adapt to playing a winning style in a winning team will be one of the most interesting storylines to watch in the NHL this year.

What I saw from him last year was an anchor who was zigging while the rest of Vegas was zagging.

He will be the knight that charges in without waiting for backup

 

[RandV]

Seeing how Eichel and Cassidy get on and whether Eichel can actually adapt to playing a winning style in a winning team will be one of the most interesting storylines to watch in the NHL this year.

What I saw from him last year was an anchor who was zigging while the rest of Vegas was zagging.

They're basically vulnerable now. They still look strong but they've burned through their massive expansion draft advantage and are just a regular team now trying to compete in a cap crunch and with a shallow prospect pool.

 

[VanJack]

I hate having to say it, but this edition of the Vancouver Canucks is still very much 'Jim Benning's team'.

Oh sure they've inked a few UFA's for the third and fourth lines. But the guts of the lineup was basically inherited by the current regime. And despite his reputation as a wheeler-dealer, Rutherford has basically traded Motte and Hamonic for draft picks; and expended one of those picks on Travis Dermott. That's basically about it.

So if Boudreau can take this collection of players to the 'promised land' of the NHL playoffs, then what conclusions can you draw? That the problems with Canucks teams of the past were a lot more about coaching, than they were management?

 

[mriswith]

Green was as much the problem as Benning, and that's saying a lot. No one developed under Green except Motte, that's it, everyone else peaked in the first half of their rookie seasons.

No one significantly improved at playing defense under Green. No one learned how to PK under Green, all we could do is import PK'ers from other teams who'd learned from a real coach. Plenty of young players got jerked around under his faux-"merit-based" system where regardless of how well they played he seemed to believe it was very important to mind game and screw with their minutes. Sometimes it seemed like an inverse merit system - play well, score a goal, healthy scratched next two games.

On Vegas, in addition to the commentary already provided, I think people in general are underrating Vegas based on their performance last year without fully taking into account how bad their injuries were.

 

[rypper]

I keep reminding myself that the roster wasn't going to be turned over in one off season and change will be incremental.

 

[Vancouver_2010]

I hate having to say it, but this edition of the Vancouver Canucks is still very much 'Jim Benning's team'.

Oh sure they've inked a few UFA's for the third and fourth lines. But the guts of the lineup was basically inherited by the current regime. And despite his reputation as a wheeler-dealer, Rutherford has basically traded Motte and Hamonic for draft picks; and expended one of those picks on Travis Dermott. That's basically about it.

So if Boudreau can take this collection of players to the 'promised land' of the NHL playoffs, then what conclusions can you draw? That the problems with Canucks teams of the past were a lot more about coaching, than they were management?

The problem though is that the trade for OEL simply shouldn't happen, how can anyone trade a number 9 overall pick for OEL, seriously, who is stupid enough to do that? It's more reasonable if OEL is 22-24, not when he is 29.

 

[Vector]

I keep reminding myself that the roster wasn't going to be turned over in one off season and change will be incremental.

Canucks of Theseus.

 

[quat]

I hate having to say it, but this edition of the Vancouver Canucks is still very much 'Jim Benning's team'.

Oh sure they've inked a few UFA's for the third and fourth lines. But the guts of the lineup was basically inherited by the current regime. And despite his reputation as a wheeler-dealer, Rutherford has basically traded Motte and Hamonic for draft picks; and expended one of those picks on Travis Dermott. That's basically about it.

So if Boudreau can take this collection of players to the 'promised land' of the NHL playoffs, then what conclusions can you draw? That the problems with Canucks teams of the past were a lot more about coaching, than they were management?

Jim Benning built a crappy team by spending to max and trading high draft picks. There are good players here, but it's a bad team in the sense it's not better than the sum of it's parts. They don't play like a team and haven't since Tanev and Co left.

I understand the pressure the new Management must feel being in this situation, and they've likely done the best they can with this crap sandwich. We'll just have to see if Pettersson, Miller, Hughes, Podz and Demko can drag this disparate group of players into playing like a team.

To your point, I don't think there's much of a chance that this team does anything but flounder around scraping into the playoffs. I'm still hoping the team defies things and becomes something special, just don't expect it.

 

[TruGr1t]

Canucks of Theseus.

Shocked you made a Canucks-oriented Greek mythology reference and did not call the franchise Sisyphean. Going nowhere fast.

 

[Vector]

Shocked you made a Canucks-oriented Greek mythology reference and did not call the franchise Sisyphean. Going nowhere fast.

I'm still riding a positivity high so that will have to come later.

Besides, I figure all sports fandom is Sisyphean, even if a team wins the championship. You literally do it all over again right at the beginning.

 

[RandV]

I hate having to say it, but this edition of the Vancouver Canucks is still very much 'Jim Benning's team'.

Oh sure they've inked a few UFA's for the third and fourth lines. But the guts of the lineup was basically inherited by the current regime. And despite his reputation as a wheeler-dealer, Rutherford has basically traded Motte and Hamonic for draft picks; and expended one of those picks on Travis Dermott. That's basically about it.

So if Boudreau can take this collection of players to the 'promised land' of the NHL playoffs, then what conclusions can you draw? That the problems with Canucks teams of the past were a lot more about coaching, than they were management?

I'd say there's some key points being missed here. One, this is sort of like the potato GM thing. Regardless of who's running the team, you have to spend x amount of $$$ on the roster and the league is going to give you 7 draft picks every summer. So Benning was here long enough to have a full turn over of the roster and make a lot of draft pick, and the league tries to stack the deck for poorer teams giving them the higher picks and theortically a poor team fewer good players and a lower roster payroll so they can spend more money in free agency and the like to get better.

Benning's fundamental problem is while the league's setup continuously tried to push the Canucks up for 8 years Benning's incompetence has been a boat anchor weighing the team back down. For all intents and purposes though, he did complete the fundamental part of a "rebuild". He just did it unintentionally. And failed to take full advantage of the opportunities presented for a rebuilding team. And failed massively during a teams optimal window for contention when drafted franchise players are having an impact while on ELC.

In theory Jim Benning could have 'saved his job' at numerous points. In practice he was so bad at his job that he'd mess it up every time, when the league tried to press us up he'd press us back down. Like the most recent stretch, in 2020 the good feeling from our random covid playoff run was squandered when he lost a big chunk of the dressing room core for nothing to chase other players demoralizing the team. In 2021 he went all in on OEL being an impact player, which he wasn't, and demoralized the team again when having the obvious opportunity to move onto Green he chose to bring him back.

For 8 freakin years the Canucks would have the opportunity to improve with another good draft pick and often did but Benning would push back blowing cap space on scrubs and doing something to demoralize the team. It shouldn't be a surprise that the moment his thumb is off the team it's able to turn things around. And talking about 'bringing back the same team' ignores how practically every summer Benning found a way to make things worse.

 

[Hansen]

I keep reminding myself that the roster wasn't going to be turned over in one off season and change will be incremental.

Its difficult with the cap situation. But what has happened to alleviate that? Mikheyev might be the right kind of player to target but I just cant help but read it as a contract that is going to have to be moved to make space for a contributor at some point down the line

 

[tyhee]

... average IQ people could see how f***ing stupid Benning and Weisbrod were just by how they communicate.
...

Benning certainly came across as if he was intellectually lacking. I didn't get the same sense listening to Weisbrod. In no way am I defending either of them as to their ability the little I've listened to Weisbrod his speech, though sometimes slow and deliberate, generally was on point and he wasn't saying inherently stupid things.

Of course, I haven't listened much to Weisbrod so may be working on too small a sample size.

 

[tyhee]

...
Remember Benning saying
“No GM in the league likes draft picks more than him”

None of us realized the reason he liked draft picks was that he considered them currency to be traded.

My favourite was actually Linden, on two different occasions in his first months on the job, saying they weren't going to be trading picks and prospects. Obviously the GM he had hired wasn't on the same wavelength.

 

[Jyrki21]

With black clouds forming around the upper reaches of the team, I have a sneaking suspicion that Rutherford (and possibly Allvin's) tenure with the Canucks is going to end up being really short. Like less than 2 seasons. Either because he walks away after seeing what he got himself into, or because he gets "amicably separated" after some sort of disagreement. Not based on anything other than the vibe right now.

 

[Bubbles]

With black clouds forming around the upper reaches of the team, I have a sneaking suspicion that Rutherford (and possibly Allvin's) tenure with the Canucks is going to end up being really short. Like less than 2 seasons. Either because he walks away after seeing what he got himself into, or because he gets "amicably separated" after some sort of disagreement. Not based on anything other than the vibe right now.

Well, I was one of the few on here that advocated caution with the new management, instead of jumping full board on every decision they've made. After 8 years of ineptitude, you'd think people are more skeptical about management in general.

Instead all I got was "Rutherford won 3 Cups!!!"

So when's your "Rutherford on Empty" cartoon going to debut?

 

[TruGr1t]

With black clouds forming around the upper reaches of the team, I have a sneaking suspicion that Rutherford (and possibly Allvin's) tenure with the Canucks is going to end up being really short. Like less than 2 seasons. Either because he walks away after seeing what he got himself into, or because he gets "amicably separated" after some sort of disagreement. Not based on anything other than the vibe right now.

I'm starting to think this as well. Also pending what happens with Francesco, since Rutherford was his guy. If he's moved out by the family, I could see this experiment being really short.

The way the front office was hired/assembled was blatantly haphazard and slap-dash when it was done (so was the Benning firing), so this isn't particularly surprising.

 

[Peen]

With black clouds forming around the upper reaches of the team, I have a sneaking suspicion that Rutherford (and possibly Allvin's) tenure with the Canucks is going to end up being really short. Like less than 2 seasons. Either because he walks away after seeing what he got himself into, or because he gets "amicably separated" after some sort of disagreement. Not based on anything other than the vibe right now.

i don’t know about all that. canucks would really benefit from the season getting underway asap with a hot start.

but whatever vibes seemed good a week or two ago have completely shifted on its head.

this is bad vibes benning type preseason energy

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Between the offseason and now Doerrie, bang up job so far by new mgmt.

 

[Quinning]

Weisbrod always gave off the impression that he had to be the smartest person in every room.

 

[MS]

Between the offseason and now Doerrie, bang up job so far by new mgmt.

I mean, in the big picture the Doerrie thing is tiny news. It’s a low-level analytics person leaving the organization.

It’s only news because she had a media profile before she was hired. And even now, it’s only news amongst a small segment of the fanbase. 90% of the casuals have never heard of her.

 

[rypper]

Weisbrod always gave off the impression that he had to be the smartest person in every room.

I wonder if he'll pop up working for a NFL or MLB team next.

 

[credulous]

regardless of the specifics of the doerrie thing the canucks did a terrible job managing it. it takes very little competence to terminate someone without it becoming a pr crisis. how hard is it to have a separation agreement and pr cover ready to go before you tell the employee they are no longer required? it's not like doerrie could do any damage as an analytics analyst/assistant video coach. they could have just put up with her until they had their ducks in a row

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

I mean, in the big picture the Doerrie thing is tiny news. It’s a low-level analytics person leaving the organization.

It’s only news because she had a media profile before she was hired. And even now, it’s only news amongst a small segment of the fanbase. 90% of the casuals have never heard of her.

It’s news because:

A. She’s is female and mgmt made a big deal about hiring equality
B. BB literally just said she was going to be a part of their plans
C. People questioned the hire due to her past
D. Team went dark in regards to the response of her firing (likely for a few reasons)

From start to finish, not good.