Management Discussion | Just Have a Plan

[Isi]

I just like how a small amount of people fell for the "NO LEAKS FROM THIS MANAGEMENT GROUP" shtick that every new management group ****ing tries to do before they leak like every other human before them

 

[nameless1]

Some management groups use leaks to further their agenda...
Like the Raptors in the NBA.
I followed that team for a long time now...
And every "leak" benefits the team.
Adrian Wojnarowski basically has a source in every franchise...
But he cannot get an accurate read on the team's plans.
That is why he is often surprised by the draft picks...
To bigger things like trades.

This is clearly not the case here...
And it shows how much of a mess the whole franchise is in right now.
There are definitely rogue elements at work...
And management is completely blindsided.
Thus...
We have this PR disaster.

 

[F A N]

Well context is important. JR came out to answer for the team having a 7 game losing streak to start the season. Him talking about system and preseason was his response to a question. From that perspective, he’s basically saying why he thinks the team has underperformed and started so poorly. He could’ve just given some BS response, I suppose if it was Allvin that would’ve been the case. It seems like it’s just JR’s motto to be straight and no BS.

Of course Benning never did something similar because he has avoided the media and refuse to answer question when the team is bad. When was the last time you see Benning come out and answer questions when the team sucks? When the team was flailing last season he was nowhere to be seen.

We had rumors about Green being replaced for weeks. It went from Julien being Benning’s preferred choice to BB being Aqua’s preferred choice. I don’t remember if there was a thread about it but it definitely wasn’t blown up as much by media as it is now. It also wasn’t like oh we heard rumors and boom Green and Benning gone. That went on for quite a bit with a bunch of games where people were throwing Jersey to the ice. Hell even with that we still didn’t get as much media scrutiny.

To put it into context, JR also said this "But, you know, if we were playing in a real strong structure, it would make it easier for our defensive play, and it wouldn’t matter who is on our defence." Perhaps I'm taking his words out of context, but it sure sounds like he's saying that with better coaching the team would actually be good defensively regardless of how bad our defense is.

To answer your question about when the last time Benning came out and answered questioned, the answer, I think, is November 18, 2021 (he was fired on Dec. 5th). On that day, he didn't give Green a vote of confidence but he didn't throw Green under the bus either.

Again, there's a difference between rumours of Green being replaced and the rumoured candidates to replace him and having Canucks management telling everyone that they basically have someone in place but they're still sending the current coach out to coach the team. Of course both Green and Boudreau recognized that as the loses piles up the team might need to make a change in the coaching department. Their bosses might have told them as such. The media reporting "I can't see how they don't make a change soon" is simply saying what everyone is thinking.

If management has already decided to make a change then make the change. What are they waiting for? So old man Boudreau can savour a few more moments behind an NHL team's bench as head coach? The guy has been tearing up for everyone to see. It's like separation with a chance of getting back together vs a separation where your spouse is already with another partner. Clearly the latter situation causes more pain and you might as well just finalize the divorce as quickly as possible.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I just like how a small amount of people fell for the "NO LEAKS FROM THIS MANAGEMENT GROUP" shtick that every new management group ****ing tries to do before they leak like every other human before them

It just takes time for the media to build connections within the management.

 

[F A N]

I personally don't think ownership not wanting to pay is why Boudreau was brought back. I think the Canucks' success last season under Boudreau and his popularity had a lot to do with it. Boudreau's 2nd year was an option year where the Canucks have to pay Boudreau a certain amount should they choose not to exercise the option. 100% that would be less than picking up Boudreau's option. How much less? I don't know. This is also the same owner who allowed Linden to fire Tortorella with years left on his contract and begged Rutherford to take the job. I have a hard time believing that Rutherford was forced to bring Boudreau back.

 

[nameless1]

I personally don't think ownership not wanting to pay is why Boudreau was brought back. I think the Canucks' success last season under Boudreau and his popularity had a lot to do with it. Boudreau's 2nd year was an option year where the Canucks have to pay Boudreau a certain amount should they choose not to exercise the option. 100% that would be less than picking up Boudreau's option. How much less? I don't know. This is also the same owner who allowed Linden to fire Tortorella with years left on his contract and begged Rutherford to take the job. I have a hard time believing that Rutherford was forced to bring Boudreau back.

Yeah...
I agree with you.
Rutherford forced to take Boudreau back is a reach.

Boudreau earned that extension with what he did last year.
It is that simple.

 

[Scumbag Frank]

What absolute shitstains Rutherford/Aquilini are.

As much as we laughed at the Oilers during the Lowe/Tambellini years, did they ever do something as putrid as this?
It's embarrassing to admit being a Canucks fan.

I'll be actively cheering against this franchise until someone else owns the team.

 

[me2]

I personally don't think ownership not wanting to pay is why Boudreau was brought back. I think the Canucks' success last season under Boudreau and his popularity had a lot to do with it. Boudreau's 2nd year was an option year where the Canucks have to pay Boudreau a certain amount should they choose not to exercise the option. 100% that would be less than picking up Boudreau's option. How much less? I don't know. This is also the same owner who allowed Linden to fire Tortorella with years left on his contract and begged Rutherford to take the job. I have a hard time believing that Rutherford was forced to bring Boudreau back.

Bordeau's payout would be peanuts. Hiring Yeo just to fire him a few months later probably cost as much as just as much.

 

[Hyzer]

It’s beyond heartbreaking when we could have had someone like Gorton and instead we get this.

 

[theguardianII]

Ok ummm so yeah I share your pain.

You wrote a lot so I guess I’ll just reply in general. I think Benning is an uniquely bad GM. I think 99% of the things he has done is whack and shit is so f***ed up that it will take time to resolve. Also he is so horrible that I think most of the fan base is suffering from post Benning syndrome thinking any similar philosophy will lead to the worse possible result. Like finding young players is a fine strategy if they can get like Dach right? But Benning is so adept at finding Vey, Pedan, Pouliot, Granlind and etc for really high prices that this fan base somehow assumes that’s what JR and crew will do because JR like Benning don’t believe in a complete tear down rebuild. People seemed to forget that this league is not about strategy but about execution. There are like 3 or 4 strategies period in building a hockey team. You rebuild, build, go all in and retool and you jump between these states. The thing that separate the teams aren’t what state they are at but how well they execute. Saying that oh JR is like Benning but with better pro scouting is like completely missing the point. A Benning with better pro scouting is not Benning, the fact that makes Benning bad is that he is the shit Midas and nearly every pro scouting decision leads to the shittiest outcome.
So I am trying to let you all know that, plan doesn’t f***ing matter, execution does. Like if you don’t trust them to build then you shouldn’t trust them to rebuild because if you have a bunch of guys that can’t execute, it will just lead to a decade of rebuilding. So what matters is how good are they able to evaluate talent, their contract work, trade history and etc.

I think management wants to replace almost everyone but Petey, Hughes and Demko. Like Miller was on the block too and the return was meh so they decided to keep him. I don’t really think they are double downing on what people think are the core. I just think they want to move as many pieces out as possible and for some pieces, if the return is not there, they will either keep him at market value(Miller) or they will keep in order to rehabilitate value (garland and Boeser). So this so called re-tool is really like a small rebuild. Now if that doesn’t happen by this off-season, you will see me popping off as well but I can understand how there are a bunch of players that are just impossible to move.

I don’t agree with the Tocchet move so I don’t know what to say. I hope we don’t get a new coach bump, i really really hope we don’t get a new coach bump.

I think Bo, Schenn and one more player will be gone at TDL. It’s going to happen so I am really curious what type of asset they are going to get.

I doubt there will be a coach bump, more likely a dive although they did plan it well enough that the remainder of the schedule is the 3rd easiest an the next 2 of 3 teams they play are tanking so an artificial bump if at all.

They are wasting time by trying to build with players at or past their prime and spending every dime to the cap limit.

There can be a plan and you are correct in that it needs to be followed. Everybody loved to crucify Melnyk, the past owner of Ottawa, called him all kinds of names extra but he came up with a plan, wrote it down and then had it followed. Lo and behold he damn near nailed it to the month. Next year is the year he had them spend to the cap with a young team and be in the playoffs. So a plan can be followed. It was similar to TO, they did similar and NYR.

But execution is required. The Canucks have played for over 50 years and seen 3 cup runs and no team ever twice. Never have they done a rebuild with a plan either.

Detroit did two rebuilds and retooling, they won four cups and were in the playoffs from 1990 to 2013, they traded off over half their first round picks for retooling.

I can't understand why it was imperative that The Bookie be hired right now, if it was because they didn't want Bruce all they had to do was fire him and promote Yeo. Instead this way will cost the team millions more because all the coaches will have to go.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Lol

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Who's excited to see a Horvat trade return of two 26 or 27 yo "compete now players" and a 22 or 23 yo "prospect"?

We are losing a top 5 Nhl centre.

15 players go in to coaches room crying. Myers publicly saying how hard this is.

BB is one of the nicest , classiest , well respected guys in hockey. He did not lose the room. This roster sucks.

Boudreau
Green
Willie D
Torts

Is it all the coaches when we have had a bunch? Yah Frankie we are all dumb fans and now with a new coach we can be hopeful again and go buy merch. f*** off.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

What does our front office do? Like does anyone know what is happening? And is communication and PR not a thing?

Taken from the GDT.

It's quite clear FAQ and Rutherford are running the show here. Rutherford has sold the idea that Pettersson, Miller/Horvat and Hughes = Crosby, Malkin and Letang. FAQ sees multiple cups with a few tweaks.

Allvin and the AGMs just hold jobs. Clancy and the other 4 including Émilie Castonguay are just "yes people" bolstering their resume. This a lame attempt by FAQ to show he was willing to hire a large FO and deflect allegations of meddling. Well, it's funny because he was with Rutherford in Arizona recently.

 

[iFan]

This management group decided to keep Boeser over Horvat, I don’t know how much I trust their judgment for a trade return on Horvat.

 

[hookshott]

One thing I haven’t seen discussed much is how nobody in the media seems to be doing any digging into explaining *why* this is happening. It’s so inexplicably baffling. There has to be some explanation.

OBC high school graduates management with no idea how beloved employees need to be treated. This has the potential to negatively impact the team for many years as who would want to play for this management team? Well done JR and Aqua for accepting this. Bring back Mike Gillis!

 

[Breakers]

This management group decided to keep Boeser over Horvat, I don’t know how much I trust their judgment for a trade return on Horvat.

Think of the Kesler trade but 10x worse

 

[TruGr1t]

The price of all this​

The players behind the scenes are furious at what’s gone on.
Everyone knows the crucial re-signing that looms large over the next 18 months. How will Elias Pettersson feel about the organization’s plan going forward?

But beyond that, how hard will it be to recruit free agents going forward?

One league source suggested agents will want at least a 25 per cent premium over what’s offered elsewhere.

Oilers 4, Canucks 2: Team couldn't pull off a win for Bruce Boudreau, so fans stepped up

Fans did their utmost to pay tribute and show their support for head coach Bruce Boudreau, who is expected to be let go Sunday

theprovince.com

25% seems low for the “Aquilini premium”, honestly.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

The price of all this​

The players behind the scenes are furious at what’s gone on.
Everyone knows the crucial re-signing that looms large over the next 18 months. How will Elias Pettersson feel about the organization’s plan going forward?

But beyond that, how hard will it be to recruit free agents going forward?

One league source suggested agents will want at least a 25 per cent premium over what’s offered elsewhere.

Oilers 4, Canucks 2: Team couldn't pull off a win for Bruce Boudreau, so fans stepped up

Fans did their utmost to pay tribute and show their support for head coach Bruce Boudreau, who is expected to be let go Sunday

theprovince.com

25% seems low for the “Aquilini premium”, honestly.

All the more reason to rebuild through the draft... :sigh:

 

[m9]

I don't even care about this Bruce stuff as much as most, but what an absolute disaster of a first year for this management group.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I don't even care about this Bruce stuff as much as most, but what an absolute disaster of a first year for this management group.

The wait and see fan club chanting since last tdl to July 1st to now must be in absolute shambles they were so wrong, again. .

 

[Canucker]

I don't even care about this Bruce stuff as much as most, but what an absolute disaster of a first year for this management group.

Yeah, the Bruce stuff is pretty minor overall but seems to have made people mental...I think they've completely misread/underestimated this fanbase's fervor. They've dug themselves a pretty deep hole and if they botch a Horvat deal there will likely be no coming back from it.

 

[TruGr1t]

Yeah, the Bruce stuff is pretty minor overall but seems to have made people mental...I think they've completely misread/underestimated this fanbase's fervor. They've dug themselves a pretty deep hole and if they botch a Horvat deal there will likely be no coming back from it.

It may seem minor, but emotionally the “Bruce there it is moment” is literally one of the only feel-good, fan moments over the past decade. So regardless of brevity, people obviously are passionate about it.

Again, management and ownership are totally tone deaf to the fan base, so they completely misread it. In reality, they’re all probably as confused as the few posters here who “don’t get it”.

 

[Hodgy]

It’s ironic to me that we all seem to want a ruthless management that would do whatever it takes to win like not qualifying Boeser, or taking him to arbitration, or trading Miller before his trade protection kicks in.

But instead, they basically bully poor beloved Boudreau for no discernible reason.

 

[Canucker]

It may seem minor, but emotionally the “Bruce there it is moment” is literally one of the only feel-good, fan moments over the past decade. So regardless of brevity, people obviously are passionate about it.

Again, management and ownership are totally tone deaf to the fan base, so they completely misread it. In reality, they’re all probably as confused as the few posters here who “don’t get it”.

I think thats the problem, fans are "emotional" about it and JR and Co, are most decidedly NOT emotional about it....to the point it comes across as callousness. I personally think its overblown, but it certainly has people up in arms and raining down holy hell on this management group...the only way out of this is to have some success and work past it and not compound it with more missteps.

 

[Bubbles]

I just like how a small amount of people fell for the "NO LEAKS FROM THIS MANAGEMENT GROUP" shtick that every new management group ****ing tries to do before they leak like every other human before them

The same ones that said that "Rutherford won't let Aquilini meddle, he's got clout!1!" argument.

There were many posters that hopped on the JR/Allvin bandwagon from the start. I advocated that if anything, Canuck fans should be wary of anything management says, and instead judge them on their actions. You'd think after 8 years of Benning saying one thing and doing another, people would wise up, but there are a lot of gullible and naïve fans out there. (Vast majority, actually)

Yet people still live and die ion quotes from JR/Allvin when their actions clearly indicate something else.