Management Discussion | Just Have a Plan

[Canucker]

It’s ironic to me that we all seem to want a ruthless management that would do whatever it takes to win like not qualifying Boeser, or taking him to arbitration, or trading Miller before his trade protection kicks in.

But instead, they basically bully poor beloved Boudreau for no discernible reason.

It will be interesting to see/hear the media when they introduce Tocchet...will they ask the tough questions and hold JR's toes to the fire, or will they "softball" him?

 

[Canucker]

The same ones that said that "Rutherford won't let Aquilini meddle, he's got clout!1!" argument.

There were many posters that hopped on the JR/Allvin bandwagon from the start. I advocated that if anything, Canuck fans should be wary of anything management says, and instead judge them on their actions. You'd think after 8 years of Benning saying one thing and doing another, people would wise up, but there are a lot of gullible and naïve fans out there. (Vast majority, actually)

Yet people still live and die ion quotes from JR/Allvin when their actions clearly indicate something else.

He should have "clout" if he wanted to...he's a 73 year old man with 3 Stanley Cups and over 50 years of hockey experience...he doesn't need this job and probably has enough "f*** you" money to tell Francesco to go f*** himself if he interjected himself where he wasn't wanted. I would find it odd if Rutherford allowed a meathead like Aqualini to overstep...but who knows?

 

[rypper]

It’s ironic to me that we all seem to want a ruthless management that would do whatever it takes to win like not qualifying Boeser, or taking him to arbitration, or trading Miller before his trade protection kicks in.

But instead, they basically bully poor beloved Boudreau for no discernible reason.

There's hockey decisions and there's being an asshole. They chose the latter for handling Bruce.

 

[Hodgy]

There's hockey decisions and there's being an asshole. They chose the latter for handling Bruce.

Ya, exactly. And sometimes you need to be an asshole to make a good hockey decision, and I’m fine with that. But they didn’t have to be assholes here.

 

[hookshott]

I personally don't think ownership not wanting to pay is why Boudreau was brought back. I think the Canucks' success last season under Boudreau and his popularity had a lot to do with it. Boudreau's 2nd year was an option year where the Canucks have to pay Boudreau a certain amount should they choose not to exercise the option. 100% that would be less than picking up Boudreau's option. How much less? I don't know. This is also the same owner who allowed Linden to fire Tortorella with years left on his contract and begged Rutherford to take the job. I have a hard time believing that Rutherford was forced to bring Boudreau back.

Would have been ridiculous to fire a coach that had so much success with the teams last season. If they were not enamoured with the defensive structure this conversation with Bruce should have been in private. As well, providing a 1st string goaltender as a backup would have been most beneficial. Bruce's record since Demo went down, would have been much better if we were not playing with 2nd stringers.

 

[Diamonddog01]

I don't even care about this Bruce stuff as much as most, but what an absolute disaster of a first year for this management group.

I actually find it shocking how inept and embarrassing this group is but ultimately even if Aquilini had somehow managed to lure BriseBois or Yzerman away from their respective clubs things probably wouldn’t be a whole lot different as that scumbag is still the puppet master.

 

[Canucker]

Would have been ridiculous to fire a coach that had so much success with the teams last season. If they were not enamoured with the defensive structure this conversation with Bruce should have been in private. As well, providing a 1st string goaltender as a backup would have been most beneficial. Bruce's record since Demo went down, would have been much better if we were not playing with 2nd stringers.

Criticizing them for the goaltending is a "hindsight is 20/20" and completely off base IMO...Demko is their clear #1, Spencer Martin had a good enough year as a backup that it was worth it to bring him back at minimum wage...wasting cap space on a 1B is just another dumb move that eats cap space that they don't have.

 

[m9]

I actually find it shocking how inept and embarrassing this group is but ultimately even if Aquilini had somehow managed to lure BriseBois or Yzerman away from their respective clubs things probably wouldn’t be a whole lot different as that scumbag is still the puppet master.

Handling the messaging of the situation in the media isn't on the owner, that's on management. JR and Allvin are the ones who were unprofessional in their statements about Bruce in the media earlier this year. Then again this week, did a poor job addressing the situation at the press conference. Those two things caused this entire mess, especially the first one.

 

[hookshott]

I don't even care about this Bruce stuff as much as most, but what an absolute disaster of a first year for this management group.

Gotta think Cammi wished she had stayed with the Kraken!

Criticizing them for the goaltending is a "hindsight is 20/20" and completely off base IMO...Demko is their clear #1, Spencer Martin had a good enough year as a backup that it was worth it to bring him back at minimum wage...wasting cap space on a 1B is just another dumb move that eats cap space that they don't have.

But do you fire the coach for a poor record when he's being forced to play two 2nd stringers?

 

[Diamonddog01]

Handling the messaging of the situation in the media isn't on the owner, that's on management. JR and Allvin are the ones who were unprofessional in their statements about Bruce in the media earlier this year. Then again this week, did a poor job addressing the situation at the press conference. Those two things caused this entire mess, especially the first one.

True, but I’m suspect Aquilini didn’t fire Boudreau until now as he didn’t want to be paying three coaches. Regardless I agree that this has been a completely disrespectful shitshow.

 

[Canucker]

But do you fire the coach for a poor record when he's being forced to play two 2nd stringers?

His 1st stringer wasn't setting the world on fire either...you fire the coach when the team doesn't perform and this team wasn't performing.

 

[m9]

True, but I’m suspect Aquilini didn’t fire Boudreau as he didn’t want to be paying three coaches. Regardless I agree that this has been a completely disrespectful shitshow.

I am hoping we get an answer on this still since our media never asked. I've been suspicious that Bruce has known they have a plan in place for awhile and that it's been communicated to him. But after hearing him speak yesterday, I have my doubts. The communication with him from management (or lack of) will decide how poorly management handled this to me.

 

[gringo]

One thing I haven’t seen discussed much is how nobody in the media seems to be doing any digging into explaining *why* this is happening. It’s so inexplicably baffling. There has to be some explanation.

I think they finally have ownerships blessing to make the change. Leaks came out to force Ownerships hand and allow a coaching change. That’s my incredibly dark theory.

Ya, exactly. And sometimes you need to be an asshole to make a good hockey decision, and I’m fine with that. But they didn’t have to be assholes here.

This wasn’t ruthless, this was sloppy. A leak gets out, in an organization where talking to the media out of turn supposedly is cause to be terminated. How does that happen? How do they keep two assistant coaches but don’t appoint one an interim head coach instead letting Bruce twist in the wind?

This wasn’t ruthless. Ruthlessness required precision. This was as precise as a 4 year old boy pissing into the tall urinal.

 

[gringo]

Criticizing them for the goaltending is a "hindsight is 20/20" and completely off base IMO...Demko is their clear #1, Spencer Martin had a good enough year as a backup that it was worth it to bring him back at minimum wage...wasting cap space on a 1B is just another dumb move that eats cap space that they don't have.

Spencer Martin is not good enough man. Cmon now

 

[arttk]

I doubt there will be a coach bump, more likely a dive although they did plan it well enough that the remainder of the schedule is the 3rd easiest an the next 2 of 3 teams they play are tanking so an artificial bump if at all.

They are wasting time by trying to build with players at or past their prime and spending every dime to the cap limit.

There can be a plan and you are correct in that it needs to be followed. Everybody loved to crucify Melnyk, the past owner of Ottawa, called him all kinds of names extra but he came up with a plan, wrote it down and then had it followed. Lo and behold he damn near nailed it to the month. Next year is the year he had them spend to the cap with a young team and be in the playoffs. So a plan can be followed. It was similar to TO, they did similar and NYR.

But execution is required. The Canucks have played for over 50 years and seen 3 cup runs and no team ever twice. Never have they done a rebuild with a plan either.

Detroit did two rebuilds and retooling, they won four cups and were in the playoffs from 1990 to 2013, they traded off over half their first round picks for retooling.

I can't understand why it was imperative that The Bookie be hired right now, if it was because they didn't want Bruce all they had to do was fire him and promote Yeo. Instead this way will cost the team millions more because all the coaches will have to go.

Well I see them building around Petey, Hughes, Demko, kuz and Miller. That’s pretty much it so it’s weird to say they are building around a bunch of vets that are past their prime. There are enough rumors flying around to know that everybody else is in the process of being traded away. If you ignore those signs then yeah it looks like they are building around old dudes.

Melynk started the rebuild like 6 years ago? So yeah if you go down that path then yeah Petey and Hughes are definitely gone. Rangers did it in 4 but they really got lucky with Fox wanting only to sign with them and Panarin as well. Hell the Rangers are not really carried by guys that are the result of a regular. Ditto with LA, they are essentially carried by Doughty and Kopitar as their top pick is still kinda meh.

The point is, will a rebuild work? Eventually yes. It just takes a long time and if we did it like 2-3 years ago it makes a lot of sense because Petey and Hughes were still young enough that we won’t lose them.
If you go into a rebuild now, you are essentially trying to get a 1C, 1/2D, 1G all over again. Like just think about how it works, 1C typically are only obtained at the top of the draft. If you miss with a top pick, guess what, try again next year and you really can’t get out of a rebuild without one. 1D can be drafted lower and 1G is like a good luck getting one kind of thing. As good as your drafting is, it still doesn’t matter. Laferierene, Byfield, Kakko, and a bunch of guys are can’t miss. Guess what, oops.

Some teams get lucky and are able to get extra top 10 picks but odds are any team you trade Petey or Hughes to won’t be drafting in the top 10 no more and you are just hoping somebody pulls a Ottawa or Florida and completely flop, but in those cases you are getting those picks back for a rental which we should be doing anyway in this cycle.

So what do we actually have right now and how difficult is the task?
We have this:
1C 90+ pts Petey - good for like 8 years (resign)
1W 60-80 pts Kuz - good for 5 years
1W 70-80+ pts Miller - good for 3 years
2/3 W 50ish pts Miki - 3 more years
1/2 D 80ish pts Hughes - at least 6 years

We really need to be a contender:
Two RHD - top4 paring RHD
One LHD - top 4 can play PK really well
2C - either 1C playing as 2C or an elite defensive 2C
3C - really good defensive C or 2C bumped down to 3

So essentially you guys are saying oh can’t get those pieces, abort abort abort. Well guess what, 1C, 1W and 1D are exponentially harder to get than the other ones and a lot of rebuilding teams don’t have those elements.

I think the Bo trade will get us a RHD and a C but probably will take time to get to the level we want them to be at.
LHD are easier to find in UFA market.
Defensive 3C aren’t that hard to find, maybe those low cost bets should yield one.

Like the point about oh Miller will be old and he will be useless in 4 years, sure yeah that’s why you keep on looking for the next replacement every single year.

So tell me what is so impossible about that it would require us to hit abort and throw away our 1C, 1D and 1G that are essentially the hardest piece to find in hockey?

 

[Canucker]

Spencer Martin is not good enough man. Cmon now

Nobody was complaining about Spencer Martin before the season started.

 

[Bubbles]

I already have money that Tocchet and co won't last two years. RemindMe! 2 years.

 

[gringo]

Nobody was complaining about Spencer Martin before the season started.

In the context of Demko playing 60 games sure.

 

[Canucker]

In the context of Demko playing 60 games sure.

And I'm sure their expectation was that he would play 60 games.

 

[gringo]

And I'm sure their expectation was that he would play 60 games.

Turned out to be a bad bet

 

[Canucker]

Turned out to be a bad bet

Sure, but its not one I'm going to get bent out of shape over...it was a calculated risk. Wasting money on another Holtby/Halak situation is dumb IMO.

 

[bossram]

There's hockey decisions and there's being an asshole. They chose the latter for handling Bruce.

Yeah, they could have "ruthlessly" handled Bruce in a cold, calculating manner: By just firing him when they concluded they were moving on from him.

They did not do that. They dragged it out for absolutely no one's benefit.

 

[Nucker101]

Some management groups use leaks to further their agenda...
Like the Raptors in the NBA.
I followed that team for a long time now...
And every "leak" benefits the team.
Adrian Wojnarowski basically has a source in every franchise...
But he cannot get an accurate read on the team's plans.
That is why he is often surprised by the draft picks...
To bigger things like trades.

This is clearly not the case here...
And it shows how much of a mess the whole franchise is in right now.
There are definitely rogue elements at work...
And management is completely blindsided.
Thus...
We have this PR disaster.

Yup. I also am a fan of the Raptors.

The fact that Canucks fans think that this regime is good at controlling leaks is cute and pretty funny

 

[bossram]

I already have money that Tocchet and co won't last two years. RemindMe! 2 years.

Easy money.

 

[m9]

Turned out to be a bad bet

Losing any of your 2-3 most important players for long periods of time is going to cause major issues and in a salary cap world it's almost impossible to overcome perfectly.