Management Discussion | Just Have a Plan

[Canucker]

Seems like you’re in a pretty small minority that views it this way.

I’m ok with that…wouldn’t be the first time. Lol…actually I think its the 3rd or 4th time today I’ve been in the minority.

 

[Hansen]

Regardless of Bruce being a fit or not right now, their handling of this and treatment of him is sickening. This is just as bad as our old management in a different way, it f***ing disgusts me.

I cant support this shit

 

[Toss it to Tanti]

I understand why Boeser wouldn't take a fair deal. I'm saying that the worst case scenario was supposed to be his QO, not what we did, and I was saying that here before we signed it. Even if he scored 30/30 he's not worth 7.5 so there was no real additional risk in giving him his QO, but if he did that and we retained he'd be worth more than a 2nd. There was no real cost to leaving all our options open and bumping the problem to next year other than the opportunity cost of one year of his cap.

We had $0.00 of cap space, AFTER trading Dickinson for a 2nd. Would you have traded another 2nd or 3rd to clear the additional cap space required to qualify Boeser?

Your “win-win” does infact have a “lose” aspect to it.

 

[arttk]

We had $0.00 of cap space, AFTER trading Dickinson for a 2nd. Would you have traded another 2nd or 3rd to clear the additional cap space required to qualify Boeser?

Your “win-win” does infact have a “lose” aspect to it.

It’s really understated how shit that QO is.

 

[rypper]

It’s really understated how shit that QO is.

Thanks Jim.

 

[mriswith]

We had $0.00 of cap space, AFTER trading Dickinson for a 2nd. Would you have traded another 2nd or 3rd to clear the additional cap space required to qualify Boeser?

Your “win-win” does infact have a “lose” aspect to it.

If you're making that trade about Boeser, which is 100% a false equivalency, then I'd easily have let Boeser walk rather than pay a 2nd AND be forced to sign him to term. It's not even a question.

Your argument makes the contract even worse.

 

[Toss it to Tanti]

If you're making that trade about Boeser, which is 100% a false equivalency, then I'd easily have let Boeser walk rather than pay a 2nd AND be forced to sign him to term. It's not even a question.

Your argument makes the contract even worse.

You were stating that giving him the QO would have been better. Again, I was not arguing on behalf of keeping the player, I was responding to the criticism of Emilie Castonguay, which I felt was unwarranted.

She was directed to keep the player; she didn’t go to JR and overrule him. So with that in mind what would you have preferred a 7.5 QO 1 year deal, or a 2-3 year bridge deal? If you sign the 1 year deal you need to move out roughly $1.0 in cap, which would have cost a 3rd round pick roughly.

We’re arguing about 2 different things, you’re arguing about player personnel moves, and I’m arguing on behalf of Emilie Castonguay’s contract work.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

Thanks Jim.

Old Jim set up the shit choice and new Jim didn’t have the stomach to make the right call. Plenty of blame to go around.

 

[mriswith]

You were stating that giving him the QO would have been better. Again, I was not arguing on behalf of keeping the player, I was responding to the criticism of Emilie Castonguay, which I felt was unwarranted.

She was directed to keep the player; she didn’t go to JR and overrule him. So with that in mind what would you have preferred a 7.5 QO 1 year deal, or a 2-3 year bridge deal? If you sign the 1 year deal you need to move out roughly $1.0 in cap, which would have cost a 3rd round pick roughly.

We’re arguing about 2 different things, you’re arguing about player personnel moves, and I’m arguing on behalf of Emilie Castonguay’s contract work.

The contract itself is bad and it's worse than what the worst case scenario was supposed to be.

The worst case scenario was supposed to be give him the QO.

A 3 year deal for less than a mil cap savings is far worse especially in the context of him just having had a down year. So just looking at the contract in isolation it's worse than the worst case scenario was supposed to be.

In context it's even worse given that you want to factor in the cost of picks:

1. You're basing this on a Dickinson deal that happened 3 months later
2. They signed Boeser on July 1 and signed Mikaeyev on July 13. They still had a bunch of cap space after signing him.
3. It's a false equivalency anyways, but even if it weren't and they knew they'd get into a cap predicament 3 months later and they knew exactly what they were signing Mikheyev to two weeks later, then saying that keeping Boeser cost us picks, or giving Boeser the least awful contract available to us would cost picks, makes the contract and not just letting him walk even worse.
4. I don't really care what Canstonguay's level of involvement is but if, as you are arguing, she is so helpless that she can't have an opinion on what kind of contract is too much and she's so hamstrung by management that she can't point out that the players they want don't fit under the cap then fine you can absolve her of any blame but she's also completely useless

 

[Bubbles]

I can't wait for tomorrow's Hockey Night in Canada. Canucks are going to get shredded on national TV, and rightly so.

 

[Toss it to Tanti]

The contract itself is bad and it's worse than what the worst case scenario was supposed to be.

The worst case scenario was supposed to be give him the QO.

A 3 year deal for less than a mil cap savings is far worse especially in the context of him just having had a down year. So just looking at the contract in isolation it's worse than the worst case scenario was supposed to be.

In context it's even worse given that you want to factor in the cost of picks:

1. You're basing this on a Dickinson deal that happened 3 months later
2. They signed Boeser on July 1 and signed Mikaeyev on July 13. They still had a bunch of cap space after signing him.
3. It's a false equivalency anyways, but even if it weren't and they knew they'd get into a cap predicament 3 months later and they knew exactly what they were signing Mikheyev to two weeks later, then saying that keeping Boeser cost us picks, or giving Boeser the least awful contract available to us would cost picks, makes the contract and not just letting him walk even worse.
4. I don't really care what Canstonguay's level of involvement is but if, as you are arguing, she is so helpless that she can't have an opinion on what kind of contract is too much and she's so hamstrung by management that she can't point out that the players they want don't fit under the cap then fine you can absolve her of any blame but she's also completely useless

The Dickinson deal was done so that we could be cap compliant.

Okay, so we couldn’t have signed Mikeyhev if we signed Boeser to his QO; that’s understood right?

It was rumoured that a factor in Kuzmenko signing here was based off them having the same agent, and him having someone to lean on in North America. It may he hearsay, but that was the talk around the time he made his decision.

Let’s assume it was, now this team is also missing Kuzmenko. Where the hell would this team be this year without Kuzmenko’s 40 points on an ELC? We would be in San Jose territory.

Again, this isn’t a black and white situation, and the fact you want to treat it as such is negligible. This isn’t NHL 21.

Finally, on Castonguay being useless, she files a role in a large corporate office team. This isn’t a “ma and pa” business, there are people who are work with a specific list of accountabilities. Hers is contracts and cap management. She’s navigated the contract side of thing pretty well, and again, was able to essentially circumvent the cap at the beginning of the year to have us be cap compliant. I also stated that she absolutely has a say, and opinion on what contracts should be signed; so what you said either states that you didn’t read my response; or it didn’t fit your narrative so you ignored it.

 

[Cancuks]

I'm sure the Dickinson deal was made because they wanted Bear. I remember Rutherford saying that they had to get creative with the cap to acquire him.

 

[mathonwy]

I'm sure the Dickinson deal was made because they wanted Bear. I remember Rutherford saying that they had to get creative with the cap to acquire him.

Because he capped himself out with the wingers he signed.

 

[Svencouver]

pom is spitting facts

dirty harry dont miss

 

[Breakers]

My god
Stop defending Rutherford and his handling of the cap and signings
Even he knows by his own mention that he has done a shit job

There is no defending the Chicago trade, period end of story.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Live in reality no?

Imagine if you are paid 1.5M+ to do a job and you failed.
Would you find it strange if the org that hired you is looking for a replacement.
Would you find it disgraceful that they won’t fire you, but keep paying you, for your own failures?

You are just full spin city these days huh...

Weird that with new management we got new "Benningsters."

 

[PuckMunchkin]

We had $0.00 of cap space, AFTER trading Dickinson for a 2nd. Would you have traded another 2nd or 3rd to clear the additional cap space required to qualify Boeser?

Your “win-win” does infact have a “lose” aspect to it.

Nothing forced them to be amongst the 1st teams to sign a UFA winger to a contract.

 

[drax0s]

Hm. Players starting to call out what's going on as "not normal". Blow this thing up fast.

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

I'm ready to move on to another management group and run FA out of town with pitchforks. Nothing this group has done provides any confidence in their abilities. They keep shooting themselves in the foot and don't seem to have a concrete long term vision on how they plan to bring us a cup.

Might as well just bring back Mike Gillis at this point.

 

[mriswith]

 

[arttk]

You are just full spin city these days huh...

Weird that with new management we got new "Benningsters."

Ummm I’ve already said I really do not like the Tocchet move. I am not going to defend that because I don’t see the point of it.

Yes BB is paid a lot of money to coach, I don’t really see how he is being mistreated considering the circumstances. For god sales he is going to be paid to not coach like in a few days. If somebody wants to pay me 1M plus to not doing something I have failed at, yeah I am cool with that.

I think you guys have a problem with looking at things objectively. Before we have guys like POM who love Benning unconditionally so therefore any move Benning makes us fine.
Now we have you guys who are simply butthurt because the new management refuses to rebuild so therefore everything they do is bad.
You know life doesn’t need to be that extreme. I see stuff that sucks about the management group, I say it and acknowledge it. I see shit that is working and I can also say that.

In this example I just see people making something out of nothing. Like the same thing happened to Green last year, where were the concern about treating Green right? There wasn’t, at least I didn’t give a damn especially when the rumors about BB start floating around when Green was still coaching. If I wasn’t pissed then why should I be now?

 

[gringo]

What a way to run an organization. I’m embarrassed to be a fan. Holy shit. Even during the Keenan years that wansnt the case

 

[valkynax]

I hope this team gets embarrassed beyond belief.

I want all hockey analysts and critics to spit in Fredolini's smug face, and let him drown in a pool of his own piss and misery.

 

[gringo]

Live in reality no?

Imagine if you are paid 1.5M+ to do a job and you failed.
Would you find it strange if the org that hired you is looking for a replacement.
Would you find it disgraceful that they won’t fire you, but keep paying you, for your own failures?

That’s virtually every member of the canucks organization every single one has failed in their jobs this year. Horvat included.

if we buyout OEL he’s on the books for 8 years… damn that’s horrible! Might be best to wait it out. f***ing Benning and our stupid owners for doing that dumb trade. Then this new management groups goes out and inks Miller to 8 million for 7 years wtf is wrong with these people.

You want this loser around the team more? I guess we are pretty are pretty embarrassing so why not just have absolutely no standards whatsoever

 

[PG Canuck]

Live in reality no?

Imagine if you are paid 1.5M+ to do a job and you failed.
Would you find it strange if the org that hired you is looking for a replacement.
Would you find it disgraceful that they won’t fire you, but keep paying you, for your own failures?

Good reputation this regime has created for this team. I don’t care what you think, whether it’s warranted or not, or if Bruce is being soft or not. I really do not care.

That quote is from a player, on the outside of this mess looking in, and essentially calling it an embarrassment. Think he’s the only one? Think he’s the last to take notice of this?

Do you legitimately think other players commenting on what this team is doing in this light is good? Like, really? This is normal to you???



Yep. Very normal.