Management Discussion | Just Have a Plan

[racerjoe]

And that's the problem... a team shouldn't rely on one player to make or break your season, that's not the right way to build a team that can hopefully win a cup one day. Players get injured or have off years and when your team so heavily relies on your goalie covering up all the massive issues around the team makeup and play that's a massive red flag that big changes need to happen. No team that wants to win a cup or to be a consistent playoff team should be relying on one player like this.

Yes contending teams shouldn't rely on a single player. Does this look like a contending team though? Did you think they would be at any point in the last 12 months? This was an incomplete team that new they needed to get better on defence. Judging by probability in the last what 15 years did you think their goaltending would be this bad? When was it this bad? Like seriously how many years ago?

This was a flawed team, that was mediocore, teams like that will heavily rely on a single player or two.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

trade myers buyout oel ltir poolman and find a taker for one of boeser or garland

have a healthy starting goaltender

replacing that salary allocation with effective players is their easiest raise the floor pathway but doesn't really move the needle to winning a cup because that path adds no futures and increases cap burden from OEL in a few years

I am personally on board with keeping OEL until he is moveable without retaining or adding anything, because we aren’t winning anything anyway in that time. When his contract comes off the books that will be hopefully a time where we are able to add an effective free agent or two with the OEL money to an effectively built up roster.

 

[arttk]

trade myers buyout oel ltir poolman and find a taker for one of boeser or garland

have a healthy starting goaltender

replacing that salary allocation with effective players is their easiest raise the floor pathway but doesn't really move the needle to winning a cup because that path adds no futures and increases cap burden from OEL in a few years

Well if we continue the tank this year then the path becomes slightly easier. Like drafting in the top5 is going to help tremendously. Agreed with the OEL, Myers,Poolman. Pearson probably LTIR as well, I think we need to get rid of both Garland and Boeser. Getting rid of Bo actually could help. He should return a center or D that would be helpful for the 2nd pair or the very least 3rd line and maybe grow into a 2nd line center.

The team would be better if we can replace Bo, Garland, Boeser, Pearson with fast and defensively responsible guys.

Hell if we can get rid of OEL and Myers and replace that with 3rd paring guys and not doing anything else, the defense would improve.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

But now we at least have a time line that Rutherford has set for him self.

Well under 3 years to be a cup contender.

Lets see how they make this happen.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

But now we at least have a time line that Rutherford has set for him self.

Well under 3 years to be a cup contender.

Lets see how they make this happen.

spoilers: they won't.

But let's groundhog day this fan base anyway and see how that turns out.

 

[quat]

90% of the value of a tank is getting top-10 draft picks. We had 6 of those.

Whether it was intended or not, it was a tank and the result was a total rebuild and a totally new core.

Yes, but what were the moves done around those picks? This didn't happen in a vacuum. They shed first round players and youth for your Gudbransons your Clendenings, your Sutters, none of which are moves a rebuilding club makes. Then they traded first and second round picks for JT Miller, OEL and Garland.

You'll get roster turn over from attrition alone over an eight year period.

I'm not arguing against the fact that traditionally teams don't bail on rosters in this kind of situation, but you're ignoring the fact that what Benning has done to this roster is almost singularly unique in the annals (heh) of the NHL.

He's build a roster that can't succeed. As you've pointed out, if the team had have their expected goaltending, the best we could expect was making the playoffs and likely looking worse the following year due to the cap. Signing Miller and Boeser means you can't sign Horvat. Signing Horvat means you can't improve your defense. Not improving the defense means Petterrson walks and around we go.

The only way out for this club is to continue to sell futures and mine UFA's to improve your club, which is virtually impossible to do. Using your picks to create cap room just to resign your best players. Let's say everything goes their way and you manage to keep Horvat, Kuzmenko and Pettersson and somehow land a two solid top four defenders. You still have zero depth because your farm team has nothing coming up. All it takes is for any of your best players to go down and you're outside the playoff again.

The writing on the wall. If this management group continues to try and build on what Benning built, we're going to see the same season playing out for the next five years.

I'd love to be wrong and am eager to be writing mea culpu(s), so there's that. I still pull for the team to win when they play. I just can't ignore the difficulty facing this rotting organization. From Gillis to this? Dam.

If you want to improve this team, you can't make getting into the playoffs every year a priority. You've got to plan for the future. Oddly, doing so probably gives you a better chance in the short term anyway, because this fragile bowl of egg shells is doing nothing.

)

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yes, but what were the moves done around those picks? This didn't happen in a vacuum. They shed first round players and youth for your Gudbransons your Clendenings, your Sutters, none of which are moves a rebuilding club makes. Then they traded first and second round picks for JT Miller, OEL and Garland.

You'll get roster turn over from attrition alone over an eight year period.

I'm not arguing against the fact that traditionally teams don't bail on rosters in this kind of situation, but you're ignoring the fact that what Benning has done to this roster is almost singularly unique in the annals (heh) of the NHL.

This is what people seem to be missing.

We are in a completely unique position. No team has been ran to the ground like ours under the cap and draft lottery rules.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Well if we continue the tank this year then the path becomes slightly easier. Like drafting in the top5 is going to help tremendously. Agreed with the OEL, Myers,Poolman. Pearson probably LTIR as well, I think we need to get rid of both Garland and Boeser. Getting rid of Bo actually could help. He should return a center or D that would be helpful for the 2nd pair or the very least 3rd line and maybe grow into a 2nd line center.

The team would be better if we can replace Bo, Garland, Boeser, Pearson with fast and defensively responsible guys.

Hell if we can get rid of OEL and Myers and replace that with 3rd paring guys and not doing anything else, the defense would improve.

Not a playoff team:

Kuzmenko - Pettersson - Miller
Mihkeyev - ?????? - Hoglander
Dries - Pederson - Podkolzin
Joshua - Aman - Studnicka

Hughes - Schenn (?)
??????- ???????
Dermott - Bear
Burroughs/Stillman

Demko / Martin

Yes, but what were the moves done around those picks? This didn't happen in a vacuum. They shed first round players and youth for your Gudbransons your Clendenings, your Sutters, none of which are moves a rebuilding club makes. Then they traded first and second round picks for JT Miller, OEL and Garland.

You'll get roster turn over from attrition alone over an eight year period.

I'm not arguing against the fact that traditionally teams don't bail on rosters in this kind of situation, but you're ignoring the fact that what Benning has done to this roster is almost singularly unique in the annals (heh) of the NHL.

He's build a roster that can't succeed. As you've pointed out, if the team had have their expected goaltending, the best we could expect was making the playoffs and likely looking worse the following year due to the cap. Signing Miller and Boeser means you can't sign Horvat. Signing Horvat means you can't improve your defense. Not improving the defense means Petterrson walks and around we go.

The only way out for this club is to continue to sell futures and mine UFA's to improve your club, which is virtually impossible to do. Using your picks to create cap room just to resign your best players. Let's say everything goes their way and you manage to keep Horvat, Kuzmenko and Pettersson and somehow land a two solid top four defenders. You still have zero depth because your farm team has nothing coming up. All it takes is for any of your best players to go down and you're outside the playoff again.

The writing on the wall. If this management group continues to try and build on what Benning built, we're going to see the same season playing out for the next five years.

I'd love to be wrong and am eager to be writing mea culpu(s), so there's that. I still pull for the team to win when they play. I just can't ignore the difficulty facing this rotting organization. From Gillis to this? Dam.

If you want to improve this team, you can't make getting into the playoffs every year a priority. You've got to plan for the future. Oddly, doing so probably gives you a better chance in the short term anyway, because this fragile bowl of egg shells is doing nothing.

)

Canucks traded a 2nd round pick to Calgary for Baertschi. That pick was 50 point, right handed d-man Rasmus Andersson.

Not just that, the next 3 d-men taken after Andersson were:

- Vince Dunn
- Jonas Siegenthaler
- Oliver Kylington

 

[gringo]

The going rate right now for a 30-50 point defenseman at any age is over $6 million in the low end.

$2.4 million retained for OEL for the duration of his contract is incredibly attractive as it puts him at or around $5.6 ish million with the percentage already retained by Arizona. That comes off the books in 2026/2027

But if we buy him out it's very ugly. It starts at $2.3 million, then two years at $4.7 million then an easy $2.1 million through 2031.

If there's any way to avoid THAT nightmare of cap hell. You retain and save yourself the issue

Sorry I can’t for the life of me imagine anyone inviting that soft and lazy player into their dressing room.

I also can’t imagine anyone trading for Boeser… 2 more years with that contract… waiver fodder.

Would love to be proven wrong

 

[gringo]

I am personally on board with keeping OEL until he is moveable without retaining or adding anything, because we aren’t winning anything anyway in that time. When his contract comes off the books that will be hopefully a time where we are able to add an effective free agent or two with the OEL money to an effectively built up roster.

Disgusting. Makes me want to vomit. I can’t stand OEL in a canucks uniform another season let alone several.

 

[credulous]

vancouver has like six players that are worth holding onto (pettersson, hughes, kuzmenko, horvat, miller, demko) and another four that are fine and you could replace them pretty easily but are worth having as long as they are around (mikheyev, bear, schenn, hoglander). everyone else is either basically replacement level (studnicka, joshua, lazar, dermott, burroughs, stillman, dries, pederson, podkolzin, aman, lockwood) or a giant anchor (garland, pearson, poolman, boeser, myers, oel)

even if you could erase the anchors for free and hold onto all the players worth keeping you still have a mammoth task just filling out the roster with players who actually help you win as opposed to hinder you or tread water

this management group has shown zero indication they are capable of doing that

 

[David71]

so basically they want a retool on the fly. and don't want to use the "rebuilt" word. okay settling for mediocrity for the next 10 years okay cool. they don't want a stanley cup anytime soon then. f*** this ownership. by then no prospects in the pipeline to replace the current guys. too many overpaid guys. hughes/petey will probbaly want to bolt out of vancity sooner than later. this owner is a dumbass straight up.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I'm willing to bet a decent sum that the GM is always unavailable because he too is scouting..

 

[arttk]

Not a playoff team:

Kuzmenko - Pettersson - Miller
Mihkeyev - ?????? - Hoglander
Dries - Pederson - Podkolzin
Joshua - Aman - Studnicka

Hughes - Schenn (?)
??????- ???????
Dermott - Bear
Burroughs/Stillman

Demko / Martin

Well that roster looks ass and there are a lot of cap.
I don’t think Dries and Pederson would be on the team.
Let’s play hypothetical and say we get kotkaniemi , morrow and a 1st. I saw that on the trade board and thought that was interesting, especially in light of JR’s comment about targeting somebody that has not really hit their potential.

Kuz- Petey - hog
Mik - Miller - super defensive winger
Pod - kk - ???
Joshua - Stud - lazar

Hughes- Bear
???? - ????
Dermott - morrow
schenn

I think something like that will depend heavily on the growth of KK and Stud. If Stud can be a 3C and KK can be a 2C then it should be fine.
I don’t know wtf to do with the D.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Well that roster looks ass and there are a lot of cap.
I don’t think Dries and Pederson would be on the team.
Let’s play hypothetical and say we get kotkaniemi , morrow and a 1st. I saw that on the trade board and thought that was interesting, especially in light of JR’s comment about targeting somebody that has not really hit their potential.

Kuz- Petey - hog
Mik - Miller - super defensive winger
Pod - kk - ???
Joshua - Stud - lazar

Hughes- Bear
???? - ????
Dermott - morrow
schenn

I think something like that will depend heavily on the growth of KK and Stud. If Stud can be a 3C and KK can be a 2C then it should be fine.
I don’t know wtf to do with the D.

...

What is "fine"?

This is also not even close to a playoff team.

 

[PG Canuck]

If you posted a good chunk of the quotes from Rutherford today, without knowing who said them, you’d think Benning was still here.

"I'd prefer to get younger NHL players that maybe didn't work out in their entry level contract and, you know, bring them in and give them a second chance."

Bananalands.

Any idea what Baertschi and Granlund are up to these days? Might as well get the band back together, it would be more entertaining.

 

[arttk]

...

What is "fine"?

This is also not even close to a playoff team.

????-???? as a 2nd paring doesn’t inspire you?

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

????-???? as a 2nd paring doesn’t inspire you?

To be fair it's not much worse than OEL/Myers

 

[arttk]

If you posted a good chunk of the quotes from Rutherford today, without knowing who said them, you’d think Benning was still here.

"I'd prefer to get younger NHL players that maybe didn't work out in their entry level contract and, you know, bring them in and give them a second chance."

Bananalands.

Any idea what Baertschi and Granlund are up to these days? Might as well get the band back together, it would be more entertaining.

I mean it’s not a bad idea if you acquire those players for cheap.

It’s been repeated over and over. What made Benning bad wasn’t the plan to acquire young players who didn’t work out.

Just snap out your post Benning syndrome.

To be fair it's not much worse than OEL/Myers

I see all kinds of potential with ????

 

[Vector]

Why do people suddenly care what Kypreos has to say? He’s a guy who’s either not cared about Vancouver or has consistently jump at every opportunity to trash the team, fanbase, and everything in-between.

The guy isn’t even a National commentator anymore.

 

[oceanchild]

All decisions seem to either come from Rutherford or Aquilini. Even this whole Rick Tocchet nonsense. Patrik Allvin is the most invisible general manager that this organization has ever had.

Even though Benning was terrible, he at least would show up for interviews or would be involved in the decisions regarding the team. Allvin is nowhere to be found. He seems like he's just a placeholder for Rutherford to make decisions behind.

Benning almost stopped doing interviews because the man couldn’t communicate.
It was to the point that it was obvious he had no business in a senior executive role.

 

[me2]

If we were contenders with Markstrom/Demko as goalie then no, but we never were. Demko up until this year has been making a bad team look mediocre.

It took Vezina nomination level goaltending just to be a bubble team that fell short. That's not how you build a team.

 

[logan5]

He's the PR spokesperson to reinstall confidence to naïve fans. You just cannot hate the guy because he says everything we want to hear.

This was a wonderful press conference. It will undoubtedly placate most Canucks fans outside of HF.

Casual fans don't listen to Canuck press conferences

 

[PG Canuck]

I mean it’s not a bad idea if you acquire those players for cheap.

It’s been repeated over and over. What made Benning bad wasn’t the plan to acquire young players who didn’t work out.

Just snap out your post Benning syndrome.

Yeah no shit

 

[logan5]

i wish someone had asked rutherford to reconcile his comments about the miller contract not being a cap problem and his comments that the cap was preventing trades and was going to lead to the loss of horvat. i get that he was talking about the miller contract with regards to the future and the horvat deal is a problem right now but what responsibility does he take for putting them in a position to lose horvat over the cap?

His comments on the cap while referring to Horvat are likely a negotiating tactic.