Management Discussion | Just Have a Plan

[Peen]

Why do people suddenly care what Kypreos has to say? He’s a guy who’s either not cared about Vancouver or has consistently jump at every opportunity to trash the team, fanbase, and everything in-between.

The guy isn’t even a National commentator anymore.

Any thoughts on Friedman’s phrasing about the chiro? Reading between the lines, I don’t think this is a fringe outside advisor.

Like I’m genuinely not trying to be that guy speculating - especially given how useless speculation has been under new management - I just think it’s definitely noteworthy.

“There have been some questions about whether it makes sense that Dr. Sese runs Human Performance on a part-time basis, but, whatever the case, hoping for a full recovery allowing Pearson to resume his career.”

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Casual fans don't listen to Canuck press conferences

Casual fans read quotes from the press conference on twitter etc.

 

[me2]

90% of the value of a tank is getting top-10 draft picks. We had 6 of those.

Whether it was intended or not, it was a tank and the result was a total rebuild and a totally new core.

It's not 90%. More like 50%. Tanking is holistic

1. Every pick gets better
2. Trade veterans
3. Utilise cap space

How many moves did the Canucks make to utilise their cap?

In 9 years since Benning and Rutherford took over his many assets were left to walk as UFAs, left to degrade until they were untradable.

The Canucks prospect depth is gutted by failure to utilise assets during the rebuild.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Any thoughts on Friedman’s phrasing about the chiro? Reading between the lines, I don’t think this is a fringe outside advisor.

Like I’m genuinely not trying to be that guy speculating - especially given how useless speculation has been under new management - I just think it’s definitely noteworthy.

“There have been some questions about whether it makes sense that Dr. Sese runs Human Performance on a part-time basis, but, whatever the case, hoping for a full recovery allowing Pearson to resume his career.”

As someone who works in physio, no. It makes zero f***in sense to employ a chiro, let alone have him run anything at all on an NHL team.

 

[Vector]

Any thoughts on Friedman’s phrasing about the chiro? Reading between the lines, I don’t think this is a fringe outside advisor.

Like I’m genuinely not trying to be that guy speculating - especially given how useless speculation has been under new management - I just think it’s definitely noteworthy.

“There have been some questions about whether it makes sense that Dr. Sese runs Human Performance on a part-time basis, but, whatever the case, hoping for a full recovery allowing Pearson to resume his career.”

I read that earlier too. We’re lacking a lot of information about a department very few have any knowledge of. It does seem odd that he’s in-charge part time. He did say during the conference that he makes recommendations for people to fill the newly opened and created positions so it could be they haven’t found someone to fill that role. Could be nothing. Could be something.

As someone who works in physio, no. It makes zero f***in sense to employ a chiro, let alone have him run anything at all on an NHL team.

They already employed a chiropractor and it’s extremely common for professional teams to do so. He’s listed on their team staff page. These are people that believe cupping is a real thing so…

 

[Peen]

As someone who works in physio, no. It makes zero f***in sense to employ a chiro, let alone have him run anything at all on an NHL team.

This might be one of the funnier tweets i’ve seen

 

[PuckMunchkin]

They already employed a chiropractor and it’s extremely common for professional teams to do so. He’s listed on their team staff page. These are people that believe cupping is a real thing so…

Obviously there are examples of sports teams being ahead of science, like NFL players using ice baths before all the benefits (and some drawbacks) were understood but the science really isn't out on chiro... Sigh. It is what it is.

 

[Vector]

Obviously there are examples of sports teams being ahead of science, like NFL players using ice baths before all the benefits (and some drawbacks) were understood but the science really isn't out on chiro... Sigh. It is what it is.

Hey I’m right there with you. Canucks used to use hyperbaric oxygen therapy in the 90s. Sports teams try weird shit and seem to employ people just because other organizations do and players like it.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

I mean, that’s where we’d be if we were receiving the sort of goaltending we got in any of the last 8 years.

I have no doubts that our 31st place .879 goaltending has caught them off guard.


We essentially did a full rebuild between 2015 and 2020, even if that wasn’t the intent.

There were stupid contracts and some assets bled in stupid trades but we crashed to the bottom of the league for 5 years, harvested a pile of top-10 picks, and completely turned the roster over in that period.

The intent might have been re-tool but the actual result was a tank and a rebuild.

Yes, given that the blue line is the biggest problem that totally makes sense..........

HAHAHAHAH what? No, no no we didn't, we sucked and got a few high draft picks but that's it, we didn't make any trades to bring in draft picks, we didn't weaponize cap space etc. If that was a rebuild it was the worst rebuild in sports history.

if ONE player having an off year is the difference from being a playoff team to one of the worst teams in the league then you have some major issues with the make up of the roster.

Basically, honestly can't believe that there are still fans failing to grasp this...

 

[Cancuks]

so basically they want a retool on the fly. and don't want to use the "rebuilt" word. okay settling for mediocrity for the next 10 years okay cool. they don't want a stanley cup anytime soon then. f*** this ownership. by then no prospects in the pipeline to replace the current guys. too many overpaid guys. hughes/petey will probbaly want to bolt out of vancity sooner than later. this owner is a dumbass straight up.

"Retool" on the fly. We've been doing this for almost a decade now which would have been enough time to strip it down to nothing and build a contender from scratch. Hell, even Seattle is playoff bound after one season and they got off to a much rougher start than Vegas which made the Cup in their first season.

If you want to build a Cup contender you need depth, you need draft picks and prospects. Look at all the Cup winners. They have no picks left and their prospect pool is terrible. It's because they had to make the trades to put them over the top once they were regularly winning their division titles and making the playoffs. But this team doesn't get it. They think adding a bunch of Sven Baertschi type reclamation projects is the way.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Well if we continue the tank this year then the path becomes slightly easier. Like drafting in the top5 is going to help tremendously. Agreed with the OEL, Myers,Poolman. Pearson probably LTIR as well, I think we need to get rid of both Garland and Boeser. Getting rid of Bo actually could help. He should return a center or D that would be helpful for the 2nd pair or the very least 3rd line and maybe grow into a 2nd line center.

The team would be better if we can replace Bo, Garland, Boeser, Pearson with fast and defensively responsible guys.

Hell if we can get rid of OEL and Myers and replace that with 3rd paring guys and not doing anything else, the defense would improve.

You really need to quit this narrative, we are absolutely not tanking.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

"Retool" on the fly. We've been doing this for almost a decade now which would have been enough time to strip it down to nothing and build a contender from scratch. Hell, even Seattle is playoff bound after one season and they got off to a much rougher start than Vegas which made the Cup in their first season.

Not next June, but the one after will mark the official 10 year anniversary of the self-dubbed "retool-on-the-fly".

"We can turn this around in a hurry".

 

[quat]

Not next June, but the one after will mark the official 10 year anniversary of the self-dubbed "retool-on-the-fly".

"We can turn this around in a hurry".

"The rebuild is over"

 

[tyhee]

...
People also didn't mind the Sutter trade, the Miller trade or the Vanek trade.
...

I think you were on the forum.canucks.com board or Reddit if you think people didn't mind the Sutter and Miller trades. A lot of us panned both of those trades when they were made.

I'm not sure why people wouldn't like the Vanek trade. He didn't return anything great, but Motte was younger than Vanek and an asset for at least the near future, acquired for an aging asset (Vanek) who had no acquisition cost other than the salary he earned in the part of one season he was with the Canucks.

 

[tyhee]

Rumour was that Janet took the poison pill for her husband. Gretzky is reportedly a problem gambler.
...

Can you provide any source for this "rumour"?

 

[tyhee]

I mean, that’s where we’d be if we were receiving the sort of goaltending we got in any of the last 8 years.

I have no doubts that our 31st place .879 goaltending has caught them off guard.


We essentially did a full rebuild between 2015 and 2020, even if that wasn’t the intent.

There were stupid contracts and some assets bled in stupid trades but we crashed to the bottom of the league for 5 years, harvested a pile of top-10 picks, and completely turned the roster over in that period.

The intent might have been re-tool but the actual result was a tank and a rebuild.

Semantically you're absolutely correct, but there is a big difference between a planned rebuild and an accidental one while trying to win.

In the first case the team acquires futures in exchange for current assets and comes out of the rebuild with future assets.

In the second case, which the Canucks have done, the team gives up future assets trying unsuccessfully for immediate success, coming out of the accidental rebuild with a depleted prospect core and depleted number of future draft picks.

The one is planned and has a chance to succeed, the other is sheer incompetence, deliberately giving away the future in an unsuccessful attempt to win immediately.

Accordingly, yes, as you say they've tanked and rebuilt-but they've done it in such a way that they've deliberately depleted their hopes for the future while still accidentally being horrible.

 

[tyhee]

Hello Canucks fans I come in Peace...How about dealing Horvat,Q Hughes and Pearson to New Jersey for Bratt,Holtz,N Foote,McLeod,Nemec,Mukhamadullin,Bahl,Daws and New Jersey's first rounders in 2023 and 2025

1. Did you intend to make the suggestion knowing that Pearson's career is in doubt because of injury? I don't know if you intend that and if it enhances the idea or spoils it from a New Jersey perspective.
2. The Canucks stand at 47 contracts so can only take on 3 more. If I'm counting right this deal would put the Canucks two over the 50 contract limit. That probably isn't a difficult matter, just a tweak to have the Canucks send back a couple of cheap contracts on players unlikely to hold NHL value, or perhaps take a couple of the players you've got going to the Canucks out of the deal. Some of those pieces have little or no trade value.
3. On straight value I'd make this deal from a Canucks' perspective, but expect to be in the minority on that. Most Canuck fans would refuse to make a deal in which they give up a youngster who is the best player to change hands in the deal.

 

[Fatass]

Semantically you're absolutely correct, but there is a big difference between a planned rebuild and an accidental one while trying to win.

In the first case the team acquires futures in exchange for current assets and comes out of the rebuild with future assets.

In the second case, which the Canucks have done, the team gives up future assets trying unsuccessfully for immediate success, coming out of the accidental rebuild with a depleted prospect core and depleted number of future draft picks.

The one is planned and has a chance to succeed, the other is sheer incompetence, deliberately giving away the future in an unsuccessful attempt to win immediately.

Accordingly, yes, as you say they've tanked and rebuilt-but they've done it in such a way that they've deliberately depleted their hopes for the future while still accidentally being horrible.

Exactly! The not planned rebuild of core players (Petey, Hughes, Demko) means exactly as you point out. Wasted picks and prospects (deemed not core players) lost during the down years in false hopes of “winning now” every year. So when the new Young core are mature and into their prime years there’s are few to none younger players in the supporting group, so the cost to build the supporting group takes up too much cap allocation because it’s made up of high cost veterans. And that’s where we are. The Benning mess. Only way out is to start over an rebuild the right way. But our owner will never allow that path. So we will see the Benning year s continue, just with JR/Allvin.

 

[Hoglander]

Interesting how it looks as though the farm team has pulled a 180 and is finally starting to develop players, yet these fools would rather not put that to good use, and instead go after graduated failures in search of instant gratification.

Seems much smarter to go after younger prospects that are trending up, instead of older players that are stagnating. This is exactly how you end up with a Clendening instead of a Forsling. Idiots.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

What is the an easily fixable factor?

Goaltending and coaching.

I'm not saying it's super simple, but our goaltending can't get worse. We expected to receive top 7ish goaltending in the league and have received bottom 2 or so.

And the players either aren't following Boudreau's system, or there isn't a system.

I'm certainly not saying that these two issues are fix-alls, we still need to move Horvat and Schenn for futures, get a high pick this year, and regroup. But it's not as catastrophic as it looks if we consider these factors, and so it behooves upper management not to act as if this pathetic showing is as good as this core can be.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I think you were on the forum.canucks.com board or Reddit if you think people didn't mind the Sutter and Miller trades. A lot of us panned both of those trades when they were made.

I'm not sure why people wouldn't like the Vanek trade. He didn't return anything great, but Motte was younger than Vanek and an asset for at least the near future, acquired for an aging asset (Vanek) who had no acquisition cost other than the salary he earned in the part of one season he was with the Canucks.

Selective memory on Vanek. I defended that deal up and down these boards because I actually knew Motte and liked him as a player. This board was rife with people swearing up and down that we should have dealt him for a 6th instead.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Goaltending and coaching.

I'm not saying it's super simple, but our goaltending can't get worse. We expected to receive top 7ish goaltending in the league and have received bottom 2 or so.

And the players either aren't following Boudreau's system, or there isn't a system.

I'm certainly not saying that these two issues are fix-alls, we still need to move Horvat and Schenn for futures, get a high pick this year, and regroup. But it's not as catastrophic as it looks if we consider these factors, and so it behooves upper management not to act as if this pathetic showing is as good as this core can be.

Or Bruce can no longer make chicken salad out of the chicken shit line up that was given to him.

We are far from just goal tending and coaching, I'm sorry that's f***ing laughable, our blue line is amongst the worst in the league and were paying heavily for it.

We have no prospect pool to speak of.

We are capped out across the board.

We won't make any significant trades that will help any of this either, it will be the same old same old, trading for useless reclamation projects, signing redundant players and spending to the cap, all while not being bad enough to get a top 5 pick and not being good enough to make the playoffs.

Those are just a few things.

Like to minimize this to goal tending and coaching, I mean wow. It is absolutely as catastrophic as it looks. We are doomed to fail and our owner/gm/agm, or whoever is making the decisions here is more set on insanity than logic.

 

[Breakers]

That's good he admitted he's done a terrible job so far

because its true!!!

 

[m9]

I think you were on the forum.canucks.com board or Reddit if you think people didn't mind the Sutter and Miller trades. A lot of us panned both of those trades when they were made.

I'm not sure why people wouldn't like the Vanek trade. He didn't return anything great, but Motte was younger than Vanek and an asset for at least the near future, acquired for an aging asset (Vanek) who had no acquisition cost other than the salary he earned in the part of one season he was with the Canucks.

Almost everyone hated the Vanek trade - people wanted a pick and not a reclamation project. Included in the people who wanted picks? Jim Benning, who said it himself that they had to settle for players because picks weren't available.

 

[racerjoe]

Selective memory on Vanek. I defended that deal up and down these boards because I actually knew Motte and liked him as a player. This board was rife with people swearing up and down that we should have dealt him for a 6th instead.

I can admit to being one who did not like that return.

I think a lot of people want to lump this management team in with Benning and I just for the life of me don't get it. Like it makes no sense to me.

I don't know if this new group will be good or bad, but to just lump them in is so ludicrous to me. And this isn't just happening here it is everywhere. I hear media talking about it and it baffles my mind.