KoozNetsOff 92
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LMAO. OV has more hart wins than Fedorov has top 5 finishes. Keep living in la la land.
Malkin is the best Russian player ever
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LMAO. OV has more hart wins than Fedorov has top 5 finishes. Keep living in la la land.
Actually I think it's better to compare there healthy seasons that are closes to each other in the year which makes it more fair because the pp and goal per a game will be about the same. It doesn't change that much from season to season. So that will make it a little more fair when comparing there seasons.
So crosby 06/07 vs Malkin 07/08 winner Crosby
So crosby 09/10 vs Malkin 08/09 winner Malkin
So crosby 13/14 vs Malkin 11/12 winner Malkin
KoozNetsOff 92
Hala Madrid
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I was going off of RS only because including playoffs makes things a little tricky and unfair sometimes (eg: Stamkos 11/12 was an amazing season but his team was crap). But yeah, including playoffs Malkin 08/09 is definitely the best between the 2 of them.
KoozNetsOff 92
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I meant you're judging off of raw pts because you're just saying whichever season had the most pts was their best season but that's not true, especially for Malkin. His 11/12 was easily his best season.
Crosby 13/14 is ahead of Malkin 08/09 for a couple reasons. Crosby won a unanimous hart/lindsay, while Malkin lost basically unanimously. And check the margin of victory in the ross race. 17pts for Crosby, 3pts for Malkin (and OV beat him in PPG).
I'm not including any playoffs.
Fair enough. I should wrote thst highest point season instead of best.
Let me ask you this Toews won the smythe in 2010. Crosby didn't win it in 2009. So because that year Pits had a crazy malkin and crosby couldnt win the smythe. So because of that it means Toews 2010 playoffs was better than Crosby 2009 playoffs because crosby didn't get the con smythe? Same argument you are using.
Also 2014 Ovechkin decided not to be Ovechkin anymore and Malkin wasn't healthy
2009 there wa a Healthy Crosby and Ovechkin was still Ovechkin. 4th leading scorer that year was Datysuk. Malkin had 16 points ahead or Datysuk.
Also with a healthy Crosby in 2009 the voters will not go to malkin. Kind of like in 2011 a lot of votes didn't go to D Sedin because H Sedin was healthy. A lot of the votes went to perry instead.
sr edler
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Don't forget to add 2 scoring titles. Malkin is clearly the better player over Ovi who only plays half the ice. It is not even close in my opinion. I am so happy Malkin fell to the Pens because Ovi has been a cherry picker his whole career. Ovi is one of the best goal scorers and the best of his generation but his well below average play in his own end puts him far behind Malkin.
Malkin also is 14th all time for points per game average at 1.178 compared to Ovi 1.124. Malkin does not get his credit he deserves as one of the top 20 players all time. Malkin will finish in the top 20 all time for points per game at a time when scoring is at its lowest point.
For those of you insane enough to compare Ovi with Crosby who is 6th on the all time list for points per game despite playing in such a low scoring era. 1.313 points per game playing during this time while playing well in all facets of the game can't even put Ovi half the ice in the same sentence. Ovi was all about stats and he still can't compare even to Malkin let alone Crosby.
Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk
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Alexander the Gr8
Registered User
Fedorov peaked really high but he was a 77 point player on average. Ovi peaked just as high and scored more points on average. That's without the goalscoring that Ovechkin brings to the table.
Also, tell me which Hart he didn't deserve?
First off the dead puck era has never stopped since it started in 96-97. Crosby and Malkin have played their whole careers in the dead puck era. 7 of the seasons they played in only 1 or none players got 100 points.
I saw Mogilny his whole career and he was not close to Malkin and not even a top 10 player of his era. Molgilny never finished in the top 5 in scoring in any year of his career and only top 10 twice. Malkin was the leagues leading scorer twice which is equal to anyone in his generation and is 14th all time in points per game average. The only current player averaging more points per game is Crosby who is 6th all time in points per game. Which is pretty impressive since they both played in the dead puck era their whole career.
Federov is in the same boat as Molgilny only once finishing in the top 5 in scoring and only twice in the top 10 finishing tied for 9th/10th with Molginy. Despite playing in a higher scoring era they both did not score at the same points per game pace and never once was a scoring champ.
Ovi is a great goal scorer but his game is lacking so much because he only plays half the ice. I always felt he was overrated because I would take so many players over him if I was starting a team. Malkin has won more scoring titles and scored more points per game over his career and plays a much more complete game. I would take Malkin over Ovi and it is not even close. Ovi reminds me of Brett Hall, both great goal scorers but not even near the best of their generation as an overall player.
He didn't deserve any of them because he is a one trick pony that floats in his own end. Malkin is a much better overall player than Ovi and it really is not close. Malkin has averaged more points per game and while playing a much better overall game.
Injuries are knocking Malkin down a notch.
His per game averages are off the charts, but he hasnt had many full seasons.
His per game averages are off the charts, but he hasnt had many full seasons.
kp61c
Registered User
Mogilny was about as enigmatic as it gets, which definitely takes him out of the conversation. The romantic notion is that he could have been the best of the big 3 Russians if he had his head in the game all the time. Maybe that's true, but it wasn't the case so it doesn't matter.
Fedorov is a different story, and you're underrating him. He wasn't as good as Malkin offensively (at least not in the regular season). But he was much better than Malkin without the puck, and legitimately one of the greatest defensive forwards we've seen in the last 30 years. And he would have a scoring title if not for Wayne Gretzky finishing ahead of him in 1994. I'm very torn trying to decide between the two of them at this point.
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This isn't about highlight reels.
If it was, Afinogenov would be in this discussion also.
I wonder if Kovalchuk would be in this conversation had he not left.
His numbers would certainly be HHOF worthy (heck they might be anyway) and he was re-defining his game in NJ into all-around beast.
His numbers would certainly be HHOF worthy (heck they might be anyway) and he was re-defining his game in NJ into all-around beast.
Voight
#winning
Alexander the Gr8
Registered User
I keep reading one-trick pony but that's absolutely not how people viewed Ovechkin in his best years. He was a dominant player offensively, he could create scoring chances not only for him but for all his teammates with his speed and skill. He is bar none the best goalscorer of his generation and he stayed healthy unlike Malkin. He is also a power forward, one of the rare superstar players who ends up in the top 10 in hits.
Yes, Ovechkin wasn't a good defensive player before Trotz came along but Malkin floats a little bit too. He's better defensively but he isn't exactly hustling back all the time either. Ovechkin's PPG used to be higher than Malkin's and there was no argument about who was the better player back then.
Ovechkin deserved the Hart in 2008, 2009 and 2013. Some say that he took the 2013 Hart away from Crosby but Ovechkin would've won the 2010 Hart if not for his suspensions.
Malkin has an argument as the best Russian ever, and I think he might be on his way to pass Ovechkin if the latter doesn't bounce back from last year, but I assure you that they are closer than you think.
I think in discussion with Malkin vs Ovechkin the bottom line comes down to simply which player you personally like more.
Ovechkin has more individual awards. Malkin has more playoff success. They both can take over a game like few others can. Both are legitimate superstars with stats to prove. Both had over 100 point seasons multiple times. Both have the hardware to back it up.
Malkin has been little bit luckier because he came on a team who had a history of winning and also had very good veteran leadership to mentor him and Crosby for that matter. Ovechkin on the other hand inherited a team with a loser reputation. Back then Caps also had one of the weakest rosters in the league. If anyone wants to argue that Chris Clark is as good of mentor as Reechi or Lemieux well go ahead but i think most will agree that Malkin had the better supporting cast staring out.
Malkin is a better playmaker than Ovi. He also uses his line mates better than Ovechkin. He is better defensively than Ovechkin but then again his position dictates most of that.
At the end of the day i don't think you could go wrong with either player. I also believe that if they switched sides the results would still be the same. Pitts would still have their cups and Wash would still have none.
Personally why i prefer Ovi over Malkin is because i believe he is more unique. I don't think there was ever a player who scored so much and was as physical as Ovi. A lot of people don't give him enough credit for this. If you take top 10 scorers they probably have as many hits as Ovi by himself, give or take. Thats pretty crazy.
So i pick Ovi simply because a player like him does not come around even every generation, i don't know how far back you have to go to find a good comparison, Richard?
Ovechkin has more individual awards. Malkin has more playoff success. They both can take over a game like few others can. Both are legitimate superstars with stats to prove. Both had over 100 point seasons multiple times. Both have the hardware to back it up.
Malkin has been little bit luckier because he came on a team who had a history of winning and also had very good veteran leadership to mentor him and Crosby for that matter. Ovechkin on the other hand inherited a team with a loser reputation. Back then Caps also had one of the weakest rosters in the league. If anyone wants to argue that Chris Clark is as good of mentor as Reechi or Lemieux well go ahead but i think most will agree that Malkin had the better supporting cast staring out.
Malkin is a better playmaker than Ovi. He also uses his line mates better than Ovechkin. He is better defensively than Ovechkin but then again his position dictates most of that.
At the end of the day i don't think you could go wrong with either player. I also believe that if they switched sides the results would still be the same. Pitts would still have their cups and Wash would still have none.
Personally why i prefer Ovi over Malkin is because i believe he is more unique. I don't think there was ever a player who scored so much and was as physical as Ovi. A lot of people don't give him enough credit for this. If you take top 10 scorers they probably have as many hits as Ovi by himself, give or take. Thats pretty crazy.
So i pick Ovi simply because a player like him does not come around even every generation, i don't know how far back you have to go to find a good comparison, Richard?
K Fleur
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Well to be fair this thread was started in June. It's pretty easy to forget about Ovechkin around that time of year.
sr edler
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His last Hart was incredibly weakish. Two other players on his own team was PPG. Patrick Kane had one less point, one PPG teammate and steamrolled his team to Presidents' Trophy.
2013 playoffs shows I'm right.
Alexander the Gr8
Registered User
A lot of players were PPG that year, even Nazem Kadri was a PPG player in 2013.
Ovechkin won the Rocket with 32 goals in 48 games, finished the season with roughly 25 goals in the last 25 games and took the Capitals from the bottom of the Eastern Conference to 1st in the Southeast.
He was on fire and if not for him, the Caps don't make the playoffs that year. Oh, and Patrick Kane won the Conn Smythe for his playoff performance. It's as if you said that McDavid didn't deserve the Hart this year because Crosby won the Conn Smythe.
